Transgender son

[Sum1sGruj]

Ever touched a dead animal without a burnt offering?.

Lev 5:2 Or when any of you touch any unclean thing--whether the carcass of an unclean beast or the carcass of unclean livestock or the carcass of an unclean swarming thing--and are unaware of it, you have become unclean, and are guilty.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. It was all about holy containment. We are cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Lev 5:3 Or when you touch human uncleanness--any uncleanness by which one can become unclean--and are unaware of it, when you come to know it, you shall be guilty.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. It's was all about holy containment. We are cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Lev 5:4 Or when any of you utter aloud a rash oath for a bad or a good purpose, whatever people utter in an oath, and are unaware of it, when you come to know it, you shall in any of these be guilty.

As well it should be. Ever played the message around the circle game? In real life, it leads to blasphemy. Ironic, huh?

Lev 5:5 When you realize your guilt in any of these, you shall confess the sin that you have committed.

It's a Christian concept, after all.

Lev 5:6 And you shall bring to the LORD, as your penalty for the sin that you have committed, a female from the flock, a sheep or a goat, as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement on your behalf for your sin.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. We do not need to offer or sacrifice. The blood of Christ is the offering.

Lev 5:7 But if you cannot afford a sheep, you shall bring to the LORD, as your penalty for the sin that you have committed, two turtledoves or two pigeons, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.
Lev 5:8 You shall bring them to the priest, who shall offer first the one for the sin offering, wringing its head at the nape without severing it.
Lev 5:9 He shall sprinkle some of the blood of the sin offering on the side of the altar, while the rest of the blood shall be drained out at the base of the altar; it is a sin offering.
Lev 5:10 And the second he shall offer for a burnt offering according to the regulation. Thus the priest shall make atonement on your behalf for the sin that you have committed, and you shall be forgiven.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. We do not need to offer or sacrifice. The blood of Christ is the offering.

Ever had a discharge?

That is why God tells us to cleanse ourselves after emissions.

Lev 15:1 The LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying:
Lev 15:2 Speak to the people of Israel and say to them: When any man has a discharge from his member, his discharge makes him ceremonially unclean.
Lev 15:3 The uncleanness of his discharge is this: whether his member flows with his discharge, or his member is stopped from discharging, it is uncleanness for him.
Lev 15:4 Every bed on which the one with the discharge lies shall be unclean; and everything on which he sits shall be unclean.
Lev 15:5 Anyone who touches his bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:6 All who sit on anything on which the one with the discharge has sat shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:7 All who touch the body of the one with the discharge shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:8 If the one with the discharge spits on persons who are clean, then they shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:9 Any saddle on which the one with the discharge rides shall be unclean.
Lev 15:10 All who touch anything that was under him shall be unclean until the evening, and all who carry such a thing shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:11 All those whom the one with the discharge touches without his having rinsed his hands in water shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:12 Any earthen vessel that the one with the discharge touches shall be broken; and every vessel of wood shall be rinsed in water.
Lev 15:13 When the one with a discharge is cleansed of his discharge, he shall count seven days for his cleansing; he shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in fresh water, and he shall be clean.
Lev 15:14 On the eighth day he shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons and come before the LORD to the entrance of the tent of meeting and give them to the priest.
Lev 15:15 The priest shall offer them, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make atonement on his behalf before the LORD for his discharge.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. It was all about holy containment. We are cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Ever gotten a haircut?
Lev 19:27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.

Vanity. It's what led to this opposition in the first place. Unfortunately, one cannot function in a world full of people who will cast you out. Such is why we have extremists on our hands.

Eaten beef?
Lev 19:26 You shall not eat anything with its blood. You shall not practice augury or witchcraft.

Jesus stated it is not what you eat, but what you vomit.

Met a witch without stoning them?
Lev 20:27 A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned to death, their blood is upon them.

Jesus said love thy neighbor. Vengeance is God's.

I think you get my point.
You do not understand anything. You have simply just ignored everything I have stated and have continued with the same idea.


Paul disagrees:
Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the things written in the book of the law."
Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law; for "The one who is righteous will live by faith."
Gal 3:12 But the law does not rest on faith; on the contrary, "Whoever does the works of the law will live by them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"--
Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 Brothers and sisters, I give an example from daily life: once a person's will has been ratified, no one adds to it or annuls it.
Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring; it does not say, "And to offsprings," as of many; but it says, "And to your offspring," that is, to one person, who is Christ.
Gal 3:17 My point is this: the law, which came four hundred thirty years later, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance comes from the law, it no longer comes from the promise; but God granted it to Abraham through the promise.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring would come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained through angels by a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator involves more than one party; but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could make alive, then righteousness would indeed come through the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith.

This is exactly where my theology started We do not need to sacrifice or face Earthly punishment, and our SINS are washed away by Jesus. It does mean a sin is not a sin, and it certainly does not mean a blatant sinful lifestyle is a Christian aspect.

Jesus stated that he is not one to be used.

The mistake that people have made is that they dismiss the OC, when really they need to contrast it with the NC, just as I have been trying to show.
You cannot win, because it is the truth. I have tried to drill this in the best way I can, but just because you do not want to believe it does not make it untrue. You are the straw man. You have being such since the first time I have ever seen you on these these threads. You are completely oblivious to it and for that, I thank you, because it really helps to set in stone the truth even when I feel it's a waste of time to issue it.
Which is a waste of time,,., but that is why the world is the way it is now., it has neglected the true principles of God.

 

[CocoaBean]

The only opinion, forgive me for saying, is what one chooses their gender to be. It is not hardwired, it is obtained through experience.

Cocoabean,
Sum1sGruj didnt say that

Hmmmmmmm... looks like his quote was,"The only opinion, is what one chooses their gender to be." He goes on to say that gender is "not hardwired..."

The only comment I would make is that I can respect Sum1sGruj's views without agreeing with them. I think he is quite capable of standing up for himself, and the fact you feel the need to come to his defense is kinda a slap in his face, and somewhat disrespectful. Please stick to defending your own views, and to defending the scripture you use to support those views. If I have an argument with another poster, let them defend themselves... we're all adults here, and no one is more qualified to defend their own beliefs than they themselves.

 

[Zebra1552]

Ever touched a dead animal without a burnt offering?.

Lev 5:2 Or when any of you touch any unclean thing--whether the carcass of an unclean beast or the carcass of unclean livestock or the carcass of an unclean swarming thing--and are unaware of it, you have become unclean, and are guilty.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. It was all about holy containment. We are cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Scripture, please. Please show me where the death of Christ took care of the cleanliness laws or where Jesus had a statement about it.

Lev 5:3 Or when you touch human uncleanness--any uncleanness by which one can become unclean--and are unaware of it, when you come to know it, you shall be guilty.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. It's was all about holy containment. We are cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Scripture?

Lev 5:4 Or when any of you utter aloud a rash oath for a bad or a good purpose, whatever people utter in an oath, and are unaware of it, when you come to know it, you shall in any of these be guilty.

As well it should be. Ever played the message around the circle game? In real life, it leads to blasphemy. Ironic, huh?

Lev 5:5 When you realize your guilt in any of these, you shall confess the sin that you have committed.

It's a Christian concept, after all.

Lev 5:6 And you shall bring to the LORD, as your penalty for the sin that you have committed, a female from the flock, a sheep or a goat, as a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement on your behalf for your sin.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. We do not need to offer or sacrifice. The blood of Christ is the offering.

Lev 5:7 But if you cannot afford a sheep, you shall bring to the LORD, as your penalty for the sin that you have committed, two turtledoves or two pigeons, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering.
Lev 5:8 You shall bring them to the priest, who shall offer first the one for the sin offering, wringing its head at the nape without severing it.
Lev 5:9 He shall sprinkle some of the blood of the sin offering on the side of the altar, while the rest of the blood shall be drained out at the base of the altar; it is a sin offering.
Lev 5:10 And the second he shall offer for a burnt offering according to the regulation. Thus the priest shall make atonement on your behalf for the sin that you have committed, and you shall be forgiven.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. We do not need to offer or sacrifice. The blood of Christ is the offering.

Scripture, please.

Ever had a discharge?

That is why God tells us to cleanse ourselves after emissions.

Lev 15:1 The LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying:
Lev 15:2 Speak to the people of Israel and say to them: When any man has a discharge from his member, his discharge makes him ceremonially unclean.
Lev 15:3 The uncleanness of his discharge is this: whether his member flows with his discharge, or his member is stopped from discharging, it is uncleanness for him.
Lev 15:4 Every bed on which the one with the discharge lies shall be unclean; and everything on which he sits shall be unclean.
Lev 15:5 Anyone who touches his bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:6 All who sit on anything on which the one with the discharge has sat shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:7 All who touch the body of the one with the discharge shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:8 If the one with the discharge spits on persons who are clean, then they shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:9 Any saddle on which the one with the discharge rides shall be unclean.
Lev 15:10 All who touch anything that was under him shall be unclean until the evening, and all who carry such a thing shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:11 All those whom the one with the discharge touches without his having rinsed his hands in water shall wash their clothes, and bathe in water, and be unclean until the evening.
Lev 15:12 Any earthen vessel that the one with the discharge touches shall be broken; and every vessel of wood shall be rinsed in water.
Lev 15:13 When the one with a discharge is cleansed of his discharge, he shall count seven days for his cleansing; he shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in fresh water, and he shall be clean.
Lev 15:14 On the eighth day he shall take two turtledoves or two pigeons and come before the LORD to the entrance of the tent of meeting and give them to the priest.
Lev 15:15 The priest shall offer them, one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering; and the priest shall make atonement on his behalf before the LORD for his discharge.

Jesus being brought to the cross took care of that. It was all about holy containment. We are cleaned by the blood of Christ.

Scripture, please.

Ever gotten a haircut?
Lev 19:27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.

Vanity. It's what led to this opposition in the first place. Unfortunately, one cannot function in a world full of people who will cast you out. Such is why we have extremists on our hands.

Scripture, please.

Eaten beef?
Lev 19:26 You shall not eat anything with its blood. You shall not practice augury or witchcraft.

Jesus stated it is not what you eat, but what you vomit.

That does not negate the law. Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, not negate it.

Met a witch without stoning them?
Lev 20:27 A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned to death, their blood is upon them.

Jesus said love thy neighbor. Vengeance is God's.

How does that negate the command? God gave the command, so it's not man carrying out vengeance. This is talking about justice.

I think you get my point.
You do not understand anything. You have simply just ignored everything I have stated and have continued with the same idea.

I am merely following your claims through to their logical conclusion. You have done the same. You say the OT is to be followed, ignoring much of what Paul taught on the subject, and propose we subject ourselves to something that brings death and sin.

Paul disagrees:
Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the things written in the book of the law."
Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law; for "The one who is righteous will live by faith."
Gal 3:12 But the law does not rest on faith; on the contrary, "Whoever does the works of the law will live by them."
Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"--
Gal 3:14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 Brothers and sisters, I give an example from daily life: once a person's will has been ratified, no one adds to it or annuls it.
Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring; it does not say, "And to offsprings," as of many; but it says, "And to your offspring," that is, to one person, who is Christ.
Gal 3:17 My point is this: the law, which came four hundred thirty years later, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance comes from the law, it no longer comes from the promise; but God granted it to Abraham through the promise.
Gal 3:19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring would come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained through angels by a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator involves more than one party; but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then opposed to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could make alive, then righteousness would indeed come through the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture has imprisoned all things under the power of sin, so that what was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Gal 3:23 Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian,
Gal 3:26 for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith.

This is exactly where my theology started We do not need to sacrifice or face Earthly punishment, and our SINS are washed away by Jesus. It does mean a sin is not a sin, and it certainly does not mean a blatant sinful lifestyle is a Christian aspect.

Please show that a cleanliness law dictates what is and is not sin rather than a cultural practice of the Israelites.

Jesus stated that he is not one to be used.

Where?

The mistake that people have made is that they dismiss the OC, when really they need to contrast it with the NC, just as I have been trying to show.

Why the need to contrast if it details what is and isn't sin, as you just claimed?

You cannot win, because it is the truth.

Cut the bravado. This isn't sports or gladiator. You can't declare winners and losers in a discussion. You haven't shown your claims to be the truth. After repeated requests for evidence regarding gender, you have given me one cleanliness law that is mixed in with other cleanliness laws and never addressed the claim that the law you cited is cultural.

I have tried to drill this in the best way I can, but just because you do not want to believe it does not make it untrue. You are the straw man.

Address the argument. I am not the argument. This is the second time you have misused a logical fallacy and applied it to that which it cannot apply.

Which is a waste of time

,,., but that is why the world is the way it is now., it has neglected the true principles of God.

It is against the rules to question anyone's Christianity. Don't do it again.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Hmmmmmmm... looks like his quote was,"The only opinion, is what one chooses their gender to be." He goes on to say that gender is "not hardwired..."

I'm not issuing some kind of idea that gender is something we can choose in lieu of God. We cannot, and so therefore, whatever your sex is, is what your gender should be if one fears God in any way.

If your gender does not match your sex, then you are a cross dresser and/or homosexual. There is no way around that fact.
I mean, it's just an illusion, and that is why I do not cater to it in light of religion.
I think Brightmorningstar was issuing in light of God, not from a secular standpoint.

Now some may think that I am biased and whatnot, and that is simply not true. I have no animosity toward anyone unless they falsely bring it to me and I am forced to present such to affirm my belief.
I am simply a liberal who realizes that many liberal things do not solve the big problem that is this world.

 

[jennimatts]

If they are suicidal, it is because of their condition, not because their mind and body do not match.

No, driven to suicide because they are rejected/maltreated by family, friends, and the church, and/or because they don't have access to treatment.

 

[jennimatts]

Hmm ...

But this sheds light on the subject - transgenders don't have male or female brains in the wrong body, that have brains which fit their bodies, but have a damaged body map.

That might be one way of looking at this, but does it really matter if it's a brain/body mismatch or a "body map" that doesn't match? The fact remains that gender dysphoria is a real condition, and SRS is the one successful treatment available to relieve the symptoms of gender dysphoria.

 

[jennimatts]

They're not very fluid at all. In humans, if a person has XY chromosomes they are male, if they have XX chromosomes they are female, which is how they determine the gender / sex of someone with ambiguous genetalia or an intersex disorder. True hermaphrodites (one teste, one ovary) are extremely rare.

We already covered all this... Your definitions of gender are not set in stone, and are therefore "fluid"...

Characteristics of XY females...
One X and one Y chromosome as is typical of males
Normal female genitalia
Normal female organs such as uterus, fallopian tubes, cervix, vagina
Implanting a fertilized egg can result in normal pregnancy and delivery

You contend that "if a person has XY chromosomes they are male", yet XY females that have a womb can be impregnated, so they must be female.

 

[jennimatts]

...The hardwired brain idea is just a fabrication, because I stated and was stated further by others, people do not really realize any difference except through experience.

You contend that a child cannot be born with a hardwired brain because they only realize a difference later through experience?

How would you explain pain? A child feels pain and cries. It doesn't have to wait until it has amassed experience to understand that something hurts. And further, how did the child realize that it should cry in response to pain? These are obviously hardwired, so why can't other forms of self realization be hardwired?

 

[jennimatts]

...intersexed people... don't consider themselves transgender...

There's a problem with saying intersexed people don't consider themselves transgender. Many of them do transition, and suddenly they are no longer classified as intersexed, but now as transsexual. So, all you are really saying is that those who don't transition don't consider themselves transgender.

 

[jennimatts]

...I find it offensive that one would try to shatter biblical orthodoxy with something that is untrue...

Shatter biblical orthodoxy? Show where I have shattered the Apostles' Creed... (I agree with it all.)

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.

The Apostles Creed not orthodox enough for you? How about the Nicene Creed?

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

The fact remains that gender dysphoria is a real condition, and SRS is the one successful treatment available to relieve the symptoms of gender dysphoria.

Perhaps, but it's only a treatment in the same way my fear of spiders can be treated by living in a spider-free house. It doesn't resolve the problem, it appeases it.

We already covered all this... Your definitions of gender are not set in stone, and are therefore "fluid"...
You contend that "if a person has XY chromosomes they are male", yet XY females that have a womb can be impregnated, so they must be female.

Did you miss my previous comment? Sex is not determined by the entire Y chromosomes, only the Sex Determining Region on Y (SRY). If it is deactived, deleted or mutated the person will revert back to being female. Saying "Having a Y chromsome makes you male" would be accurate since the SRY normally sits on the Y chromosome. After all, it's called the sex determining region for a reason.

As for your note on the XY woman with children, this is an incredibly rare case but you're presenting it as though it were normal. It isn't, this woman is extremely unusual. That's why they write medical jorunals about her.

The range of phenotypes observed in this unique family suggests that there may be transmission of a mutation in a novel sex-determining gene or in a gene that predisposes to chromosomal mosaicism.​

- jcem.endojournals.org​

There's a problem with saying intersexed people don't consider themselves transgender.

You cut out most of my comment. I was saying that if an example of being transgender means "having a male brain in a female body" then all intersexed girls with this condition could consider themselves male. This isn't the case.

 

[hedrick]

This is the millionth time you have lied through your teeth.
...
Bye

Please take a breather. There is simply no reason to claim that people with whom you disagree are lying.

You're claiming that there is such obvious Biblical evidence that anyone must acknowledge it. But you haven't produced it.

Yes, God created us male and female. But in this sinful world, there are all kind of imperfections, ranging from birth defects to learning disabilities. Christians normally support correcting them.

The concept of gender dysphoria is new enough that I can understand skepticism. That wouldn't bother me. But your reaction borders on the hysterical. It is not an insult to God or his handiwork to say that some people have a confusion about their gender, and that sometimes it makes sense to treat it by changing their physical gender to match their psychological one. Now you may think that this is unjustified, and that it would be better to treat it psychologically, getting them to accept their physical gender. That's the kind of disagreement that we can live with. But this is not an attack on the Gospel.

This disagreement does not make either party liars. If you're going to participate in CF, you need to be able to interact with people who disagree with you. If you don't think anyone can disagree with you and still be a Christian, then you would be better off to limit your participation to congregational forums that match your views.

 

[LoraElise]

Thank you, hedrick

Please take a breather. There is simply no reason to claim that people with whom you disagree are lying.

You're claiming that there is such obvious Biblical evidence that anyone must acknowledge it. But you haven't produced it.

Yes, God created us male and female. But in this sinful world, there are all kind of imperfections, ranging from birth defects to learning disabilities. Christians normally support correcting them.

The concept of gender dysphoria is new enough that I can understand skepticism. That wouldn't bother me. But your reaction borders on the hysterical. It is not an insult to God or his handiwork to say that some people have a confusion about their gender, and that sometimes it makes sense to treat it by changing their physical gender to match their psychological one. Now you may think that this is unjustified, and that it would be better to treat it psychologically, getting them to accept their physical gender. That's the kind of disagreement that we can live with. But this is not an attack on the Gospel.

This disagreement does not make either party liars. If you're going to participate in CF, you need to be able to interact with people who disagree with you. If you don't think anyone can disagree with you and still be a Christian, then you would be better off to limit your participation to congregational forums that match your views.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

Please take a breather. There is simply no reason to claim that people with whom you disagree are lying.

In his case, yes. Because he falsely presenting what I have stated. He knows it, he knows that I know it, and he keeps on.
It's ridiculous.
And please do not try to front some idea on the contrary because it is plain as day and has happened more then several times over this thread and others.

You're claiming that there is such obvious Biblical evidence that anyone must acknowledge it. But you haven't produced it.

What I speak is basic Christian knowledge. I have unequivocally tried to explain and explain., and I have succeeded mind you. But I am not God. I cannot make someone accept a truth, and you are not going to tell me I'm wrong simply because these alleged Christians cannot examine a few passages from the Bible and see it for what it is.
It's an insult to my intelligence, and blasphemy to boot. But that last part is between others and God, it has little to do with me. It is human nature to conclude majority has it right, even when the lie is often so incredibly visible.

I don't know your take on it, but just know that I know the difference between liberalism and fact, and whatever science is doing to conclude some ridiculous idea that a female is trapped in a male sexed body is not catering to fact.

Yes, God created us male and female. But in this sinful world, there are all kind of imperfections, ranging from birth defects to learning disabilities. Christians normally support correcting them.

Correcting, not choosing what clearly is not so.

This disagreement does not make either party liars. If you're going to participate in CF, you need to be able to interact with people who disagree with you. If you don't think anyone can disagree with you and still be a Christian, then you would be better off to limit your participation to congregational forums that match your views.

No, their views do not match the Bible. They can think it can, but it doesn't. And in all the secular sense, I really do not care, but as soon as it is brought to religion, nobody is going to tell me I am wrong about something I clearly am not wrong about.



But you know., I said I was unsubscribing to this thread. And I did, but it caught my eye as I was skimming the forum. So I am just going to drop out of this thread for good, because I have stated that it's a waste of time explaining these things., to some people at least, and it's just vain to keep going on with it. I'll just end up losing my patience and getting caught up with the mods. So long thread., the subject isn't the most interesting thing to talk about anyways_

 

[Notedstrangeperson]

Yes, God created us male and female. But in this sinful world, there are all kind of imperfections, ranging from birth defects to learning disabilities. Christians normally support correcting them.

Correcting them would be telling them they are not the 'wrong gender'. Giving them an operation that turns them into the opposite sex just appeases the problem.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

Correcting them would be telling them they are not the 'wrong gender'. Giving them an operation that turns them into the opposite sex just appeases the problem.

So how are you going to correct us? Telling me I am male, does that help me? Uh no. What would you prescribe for correction beyond a waggle of the finger and a good scolding?

Operation that turns us into the opposite sex? Oh sweetie I wish there was such a thing Sadly we go through years of hormone therapy voice training all as I have said before and all info you will probably get in that thread. The Srs just gives us that vagina we want or penis others want respectively.

It takes more than a snip snip meow to make us who we are inside How can you claim all this when you barely understand who we are?

 

[TammyRae]

I don't think God mapped out gender roles. All I am contending is that God did not create men with female body parts and women with male body parts. People have either imagined this (agreeing with a deception) or made it so through surgical procedure. Either way, it is very sad. Not something God designed.

Well said, thank you.

Prayers for the mother and young man that they find God's paths for them through this situation.

 

[Amber the Duskbringer]

I didn't ever think saying science was wrong without backing up those claims with facts to be well spoken.

Times have changed.

 

[LoraElise]

Originally Posted by talitha

"I don't think God mapped out gender roles. All I am contending is that God did not create men with female body parts and women with male body parts. People have either imagined this (agreeing with a deception) or made it so through surgical procedure. Either way, it is very sad. Not something God designed."


People always put God into a little box they feel comfortable with. They decide what He is and is not capable of, and what He will and will not do. They refuse to entertain any idea that lives outside that little box -- regardless of scientific, medical, theological, or other evidence -- dismissing it as heresy or blasphemy or sin or whatever.

God is God. He does what He wills. He is the potter, and we are the clay. He is not a respecter of persons, and owes us nothing. To claim that He would never bring into existence a person with the brain of one sex and the outward body of the other, frankly, is ludicrous. He has His purposes, far beyond our understanding. We see through a glass darkly. We do not know the complete depths of the Father, but only that tiny part He has revealed to us, that infinitesimal view our tiny minds can comprehend.

If one insists that God would never create such a person, how does one explain other birth defects? How does one rationalize away the existence of Down Syndrome children, or conjoined twins, or babies born with some of their organs outside the body? Surely God wouldn't make a person like that, right?

Throw gender into the mix, and lots and lots of people with their neat little God Boxes panic. If something out of the ordinary even begins to touch upon sex in any way, shape or form, they insist it must be a result of deliberate sin -- despite the fact that the human brain is the most fragile organ in the body and is in no way immune to prenatal developmental anomalies.

How about we let God be God, stop judging those who suffer with gender dysphoria -- whose condition is mentioned nowhere in the Bible -- and just love them instead and leave them to Him?

Good grief.

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[Amber the Duskbringer]

Originally Posted by talitha

"I don't think God mapped out gender roles. All I am contending is that God did not create men with female body parts and women with male body parts. People have either imagined this (agreeing with a deception) or made it so through surgical procedure. Either way, it is very sad. Not something God designed."


People always put God into a little box they feel comfortable with. They decide what He is and is not capable of, and what He will and will not do. They refuse to entertain any idea that lives outside that little box, dismissing it as heresy or blasphemy or sin or whatever.

God is God. He does what He wills. He is the potter, and we are the clay. He is not a respecter of persons, and owes us nothing. To claim that He would never bring into existence a person with the brain of one sex and the outward body of the other, frankly, is ludicrous. He has His purposes, far beyond our understanding. We see through a glass darkly. We do not know the complete depths of the Father, but only that tiny part He has revealed to us, that infinitesimal view our tiny minds can comprehend.

If one insists that God would never create such a person, how does one explain other birth defects? How does one rationalize away the existence of Down Syndrome children, or conjoined twins, or babies born with some of their organs outside the body? Surely God wouldn't make a person like that, right?

Throw gender into the mix, and lots and lots of people with their neat little God Boxes panic. If something out of the ordinary even begins to touch upon sex in any way, shape or form, they insist it must be a result of deliberate sin -- despite the fact that the human brain is the most fragile organ in the body and is in no way immune from developmental anomalies taking place in the womb.

How about we let God be God, stop judging those who suffer with gender dysphoria -- whose condition is mentioned nowhere in the Bible -- and just love them instead and leave them to Him?

Good grief.

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4 internets for making sense. Bravo