You continue to bring up the impediments trans people make on other people's lives,
Yes, because they are an issue and this thread is about trans people.
as if that, by itself, is a crime
Not all wrongdoings are crimes. I already told you this.
or something they should be held responsible for. Why?
You don't thing people should be held responsible for wrongdoings in some way?
Are any other groups charged or held responsible for impeding the lives of other people?
Yes, but this thread isn't about them.
Exactly. So why hold trans people responsible for doing it, but no one else?
I do hold others responsible.
The difference being...? Goal posts don't seem to have moved.
A trans individual is one person, trans people is a whole group. First you asked specific impediment attributed to trans people but then you asked for specific cases of trans individuals. That's how you moved the goal posts.
And..? If the problem you have is the possibility that someone might get pregnant, well, that happens anyway, even when trans people aren't involved. So why is this specifically a trans issue, again?
It's not specific to trans people but a trans person has contributing to the problem.
Seems to me its a preventing pregnancies problem instead. Got a solution for that problem?
A good start would be not to put biological men in cells with biological women.
Wait, now you're adding killing people to the problem? I thought it was only about spreading false information.
The false information had to do with the killing of trans people. Did you even watch the video?
Spreading false information, by itself, doesn't make someone directly responsible even if a murder is committed because of that false information. Unless, of course, the spreader is the one who pulled the trigger.
As a specific example, many people spread false information about the 2020 election being stolen...but only those who actually attacked the capitol on January 6 were arrested.
I already know this. Are you under the impression that I want the people who tried to spread this falsehood about trans killings, arrested?
So? They didn't cause the problem,
Again, never said they did.
and they don't seem to be a major factor in it continuing,
One easily preventable pregnancy in prison is one too many.
You seem to be struggling with the concept of thread topics. If I see a thread about January 6, when I read the thread I don't expect to see read stuff about Christmas and Santa Clause, I expect to read about things to do with January 6.
This thread is about trans people so they are the focus of discussion.
Why are you making this a trans issue, when there are far more people getting people pregnant who aren't trans than are?
See previous comment.
My memory is fine. I'm just unclear on your point in bringing this up.
Your unclear why I gave you information you asked for?
What difference does it make that gay people and trans people deal with different issues? How is that the responsibility of trans people alone?
When did I say it was trans people's responsibility alone?
I have no idea. I'm still trying to figure out why you brought up this whole tangent.
You can't explain how it would invalidate them? Then why bring it up?
Dude, YOU brought up the issue of gay people are disassociating with trans people....and I'm still trying to figure out why, or what relevance that has to anything in this issue whatsoever. You've never been clear on why you brought this into the discussion, and now you're trying to throw it back to me.
You're the one who keeps asking questions and when I give you an answer you ask why I brought it up. More evidence that you either have a bad memory or you are not debating in good faith and are just talking in circles.
I'll leave it with this: Gay people and trans people deal with different issues, even though they may have some issues in common.
Period.
And that's all I need to say on the subject.
That was pretty obvious knowledge anyone could figure out on their own.
But you didn't answer the question!
I asked why you brought up gay people here, and you didn't explain why. This isn't a failure of my memory, it's a failure of you explaining what your point is.
Though, I have to admit, I'm beginning to form an opinion on what that point may actually be.
I brought them up when you said:
"Maybe not those specific pronouns, but it seems to me there have been a lot of posts that purport to claim some overreaching "trans agenda" that seems to begin with pronouns and ends, somehow, with world domination or something.
Or, I dunno, maybe I just don't get how trans people using bathrooms is a disaster for society."
I replied:
"That's very hyperbolic. Not world domination but it could be a big problem for society. When even gay and lesbians are disassociating from the trans movement by removing the T from LGBT it's a cause for concern."
That's who conversations and debates work. New elements are introduced as the discussion progresses.
How? And please, be specific.
Bullying, harassment, intimidation etc.
What legal issues? And please, be specific.
The teacher being fired.
So why bring it up here? In a thread about trans people.
Because no issue is exclusive to trans people.
If there's a bigger issue, that issue has yet to be mentioned.
What would constitute a bigger issue for you?
Cool. Let her walk on the beach then. I got no problem with people walking, on or off beaches.
Then you have no problem with her identifying as trans lesbian woman of color. Cool.
Your mental decline is showing here. I never said you did.
Direct quote from your post #3,368
"So why bring up the issue in a thread about a State Dept. memo suggesting State Dept. employees use non-gender specific language when possible?"
Please quote me where I brought up the State Dept. memo suggesting State Dept. employees use non-gender specific language when possible.
So you want to blame trans people for a problem they didn't cause, aren't solely responsible for, and don't contribute to more than any other group?
Hmm...seems to me there's a word for that kind of thing....wait, it'll come to me....
Again ignoring when I specifically said they didn't cause it.
Black people contribute to people getting pregnant too, why not make this about them?
This thread isn't about black people.
Portuguese people contribute to people getting pregnant too, why not make this about them?
This thread isn't about Portuguese people.
People with tattoos contribute to people getting pregnant too, why not make this about them? People who like Battlestar Galactica contribute to people getting pregnant too, why not make this about them? People who enjoy roast beef sandwiches contribute to people getting pregnant too, why not make this about them?
See where I'm going with this?
So why blame trans people specifically, when they're not the only ones doing it? Why not blame black people, Portuguese people, people with tattoos, people who like Battlestar Galactica or people who enjoy roast beef sandwiches?
This thread isn't about any of those people. See where I'm going with this?
Each of them individually is, yeah. Whether or not they form a pattern is a different issue. So far, you offered one example of a trans person getting someone pregnant, I offered four examples that don't involve a trans person (and, I think, multiple pregnancies may have been involved in more than one case). But, I grant you, the sample size here may be too small to draw any real inferences from.
And yet, doing that doesn't prevent pregnancies from happening. Even without any trans person involved at all.
Seems this may not be as much a trans issue as you want to make it out to be.
Still trying to figure out that word....
It won't prevent pregnancies from happening from happening but it's an obvious no-brainer to not put men inside women's cells becuase it's just asking for trouble.
So what are you worried about, then?
That the wrong people might win the battle.
"Don't put trans women in women's prisons."
I didn't.
I wasn't referring to you when I said that. Again, inserting yourself into the story.
Not really, no. I just don't see this as being quite as world-shaking an all-encompassing, widespread problem as you do.
If someone, anyone, does something wrong in a woman's bathroom, or anywhere else, I have no problem with that person being ejected from the store, or arrested if a crime is involved. I just don't see a problem if no one is doing anything wrong.
Still not sure why you do. Maybe it has something to do with that word that keeps escaping me....
Maybe hear what the women who have a problem with trans women occupying women's spaces have to say to get a better understanding.
Hardly. I "insert" myself in this subject because you're talking to me. I don't speak for trans people, so I can't offer their opinion on anything, I can only offer my own.
If you have a problem with that, find someone who is trans, or who does speak for them, and natter on with them instead.
Just because I'm talking to you doesn't always mean I'm referring to you. You constantly reply with something like "I'm not a (insert job here) you should ask them. As if you think I believe you have that specific job.
Why are you trying to insert me into the topic?
When a person says "you" they are referring to you, when they don't they are referring to someone else. Pretty simple to understand.
Then you should check it out. It's exactly what you were looking for.
Why would I? Since when is doing nothing wrong a "wrongdoing"?
Again, they are making women feel uncomfortable by being in places not made for them. That is doing something wrong.
Right. You take responsibility for your own discomfort. You don't expect the other person to be responsible for it.
So, why do you seem to hold trans people responsible for other people's discomfort if they're doing nothing wrong?
And women have. They are speaking out.
Do you give the same advise to trans people when people don't use their pronouns?
Nope. You're the one assuming it, I'm not saying it.
I don't need to assume. Your own words say it all.
You seem to agree with this, since you did indicate that if you had a problem with someone, you'd find a way to deal with it: you said you'd cross the street to avoid someone you're uncomfortable with, rather than expect them to leave instead.
A street isn't the same as a women's bathroom. A street is public, a toilet is a place of privacy.
And what part of that actually says I weigh one person's discomfort more than another? Or did you just assume that?
A person who doesn't weigh one person's discomfort more than another would have shown the same level of desire to speak out for woman as for transwomen. You comments telling women to "let them find a way to deal with it" shows you don't weigh women's discomfort as much as trans women's.
That isn't something I said, that's something you assumed.
Your own words condemn you.
But, for the record, if someone wants to pass a law preventing all women from swimming, or acting, then I very well might voice an objection to that too. Sorry if I didn't mention that before.
Now you started changing your tune now that I caught you. Now it's no longer "let them deal with it".
Shall I make the same declaration for black people, Portuguese people, people with tattoos, people who like Battlestar Galactica or people who enjoy roast beef sandwiches? Do I need to include anyone else before you assume I don't care about their comfort either? State Dept. employees, perhaps? (See, at least I'm trying to stay on topic...as fruitless an endeavor as that may be by this point.)
No need. I know which side you would take.
Who is most vulnerable to someone doing nothing wrong?
Making some one feel uncomfortable and unsafe in an area made specifically for them is doing something wrong. Women are the main victims of sexual crimes and men are the main perpetrators of sexual crimes. So I can easily see why women would feel uncomfortable with a man in the women's bathroom. It baffles me that you can't see that.
Nah, you're too busy making random assumptions instead.
CONTINUED NEXT POST....
Projection.
