So your point is because people's lives are impeded all the time it's fine if they're impeded even more? Is that your point?
No, I'm saying that people can, and often do, impede other people's lives all the time...and there is nothing illegal about it.
Completely ignoring the story of the trans woman getting the two women pregnant and the story about the spreading false information about trans killings.
Nope, they're just different situations entirely, and neither case is specific to trans individuals. In the first case, getting someone pregnant may not be a crime, though rape is. Trans or not. In the second case, spreading false information about anything isn't illegal either. Trans or not.
Why are you bringing these cases up in this particular thread, when they have nothing to do with trans people specifically?
Look up the video "Here's Why The LGB Is Different From The TQ+" by Amir Odom on YouTube. He's a gay man and he explains the difference and the problems with the trans community better than I can.
I will when I have time...but, I'm curious, what's your point? I know gay people and trans people have different issues....does that fact invalidate either one, somehow?
No, not the sole reason but one of several.
And...? What's your point in bringing this up, exactly? How do these differences concern anyone who isn't gay or trans? Is there some legal issue that needs to be addressed?
Not everyone can handle bullying and harassment. Not everyone is like you. This should be apparent to you seeing that you are defending trans people.
There are laws and legal steps anyone can take to deal with bullying and harassment. These steps are not exclusive to trans people, by the way, anyone can avail themselves of them. Granted, just being called a name on the internet may not be a crime, or constitute slander or libel, but there are other things that can be done.
And, again, this isn't exclusive to trans people. You're going all over the place, and getting way off the subject of trans people and the apparent threat you see them as.
What does access the bathroom have to do with gays and lesbians distancing themselves from the trans movement?
That seems to be the biggest issue some have with trans people. Well that, and the apparently onerous task of using their preferred pronouns.
Okay, you have no problem with calling Ryan Webb a transwoman of color. Got it.
Dude, I don't know this person, or a single thing about her that you haven't shared with me here. If you're trying for some kind of gotcha, it's going to be lost on me.
I know, you just showed me proof.
So why bring up the issue in a thread about a State Dept. memo suggesting State Dept. employees use non-gender specific language when possible?
When did I blame trans people for the entirety of the problem?
If they didn't cause the problem, nor are specifically responsible for the problem (beyond simply being one of many parts of it), why are you bringing it up?
When did I blame trans people for creating this problem? They didn't create it but there are some trans people and their allies that are contributing to making it worse by wanting to put trans women in women's prisons.
How does it make the situation worse, exactly? Have prison pregnancies risen significantly, all specifically due to trans people getting other inmates pregnant? Is this more than an isolated incident?
Or are you just afraid of what
might happen, rather than what actually
has happened?
It's obvious. Don't put trans women in women's prisons.
Okay. So write your representative in congress, then. Or work with your state legislature to help create legislation. There are a lot of things you can do to actually affect this situation in some way.
Nattering on with me on the internet isn't going to accomplish any of that. I can't do a thing about the issue.
But others do have a problem with it. That's the point.
So they have a problem with it. Let them find a way to deal with it.
Again, I'm not the bathroom monitor here, so I can't help them. Maybe they should write their representatives in congress, and pass a bill requiring stores and restaurants to have security guards outside bathrooms to check birth certificates before anyone is allowed to go to the bathroom.
I'm sure that will be a very popular law.
Not birth certificate but driver's license. Make it a policy.
I'm not your representative in congress, nor a member of your state's legislature. I can't fix this problem for you.
You realize not all wrongdoings are a crimes, right?
True enough. So why should trans people care if you're uncomfortable? Do you care if they are? What are you doing to ensure trans people aren't uncomfortable in some way?
If you're not doing anything to ensure their comfort, why should they have to ensure yours?
Two way street, dude.
I'm not a woman so you should ask them.
I've never, ever, heard any actual woman complain about trans women in the ladies room. And I do know of cases where exactly that has happened...to no difficulty or impediment whatsoever.
It seems to be one of those problems that only happen to religious people who like to complain about it on the internet.
I told you they are doing something wrong, they are making women feel uncomfortable. Also scared for their safety.
And yet, they're doing nothing wrong.
Let me ask you a question: say you're walking down the street. Someone else, also walking down the street, makes you feel uncomfortable for some reason, or scared for your safety for some reason...but that person has done nothing wrong whatsoever. Not a single thing.
What should happen next?
Oh, so trans women's comfort is more important than biological women's comfort to you? Why?
I never placed any degree of importance on one over the other.
You have, though.
I'm just pointing out that fact.
You are by making it about the situation, my question is about the people themselves. So you are dodging the question.
If I don't know the people themselves, I can't speak about them. I have no choice but to address the situation.
This isn't about swimming and acting careers, it's about the persons themselves.
And I don't know them. So if you have a problem with either of them, I don't know about it.
Were did you get the idea with me having a problem with them doing these thing?
Why else would you keep bringing them up, and continually asking me if they should be allowed to do some perfectly legal things? I can't think of a single reason to disallow either one of them from swimming or acting.
If Caitlyn Jenner was your friend and she wanted to join a women only group and she was rejected because there was a law passed that trans woman can't join, would you voice your objection?
To the law, I might. Depends on the law, of course.
But why though? Everyone has a motive for what they do.
Because I have opinions, and I sometimes voice them. And I also occasionally do something about it if the situation warrants it.
Yes but they are usually unintentional and people will admit to them and try to change them when they're shown to them. Some people try to hide them and pretend they're not there.
Yup. And some people assume there are inconsistencies with other people that aren't there. These things happen.
And you mine.
Nice how that works out.
You don't need to. This thread is about trans people. Rachel Dolezal is trans. That's all you need to know.
Well, I'd need a little more information if you want me to render an opinion about her acting ability.
You've been defending millions you've never met in this thread. So you apparently have a double standard for Rachel Dolezal for some reason.
No, I'd need to know the same for anyone about whose acting ability you're asking me to render an opinion on.
So I'm guessing you'd be okay with her playing Harriet Tubman then?
Is there some reason I shouldn't be okay with it? Keeping in mind, of course, that I'm not casting anyone for that role at this time.
He was too old back then as well.
So age isn't a factor, then.
Not to mention his and his wife's racist comments which make him even more unfit to be president.
Ah. So you're just fishing for reasons to object, then.
Okay, fine. Carry on.
No one said it's a crime.
So why is it a problem, exactly?
Everyone knows politicians lie. This isn't a new revelation. Just because they lie doesn't mean people are okay with it.
So vote for someone who doesn't lie. Seems an odd thing to suggest to someone who purports to support Donald Trump, but there you have it.
Your statement was extreme and ridiculous to begin with.
I have no doubt you interpreted it that way.
Or you can simplify it and say "I condemn these people and everyone else who spreads false information." Easy.
Sure, and you
could condemn anyone who commits fraud.
But, on the other hand, I may not agree with what someone says, but I can still defend their right to say it. There is the First Amendment, after all.
By the way, would you accept this exact excuse you just used for not condemning these people if Donald Trump used it on let's say white supremacists?
Sure. Trump's entitled to any odious opinion he likes. He's not shy about spouting them, either.
Just because I disagree with someone, that doesn't mean I'd condemn them.
You wouldn't be in danger of losing your job and source of income if you didn't give that person direction. So not comparable at all.
Well, I might be if my employer were paying me to give people directions, and I refused to do that.
The teacher was paid to teach, not to use pronouns.
Part of the job is following school policy in how he treats students. If he taught them, but also hit them, I bet he'd have a problem, too.
Not complaining about that.
Yeah, you were. You complained about people "being called transphobic/terf and being socially ostracized", calling that "ridiculous."
You weren't being paid to use someone's pronouns, that was just a policy.
A policy that is part of the job the teacher was being paid to do.
What would constitute rude and abusive behavior in this hypothetical?
Use your imagination. Whatever you'd consider rude and abusive behavior if it were being done to you.
Depends if he actually did something wrong. The callers may have been abusive to him first.
Have you ever worked in customer service?
Neither are policies regarding pronouns.
Okay. So if that teacher has a valid defense, I'm sure the court will consider it when they rule on his case.
Which religion practices human sacrifice?
Many have. The Aztecs and Inca, for example. Also, ancient Egyptians used to bury slaves with their masters, even when the slaves were still living. Even Christianity, to this day, practices
ritual human sacrifice (if not
actual human sacrifice). Still, there are examples of Yahweh commanding it in the old testament, Abraham being commanded to sacrifice his son Isaac, for example.
Bigamy is illegal. Polygamy is just bigamy plus a few.
That would be accepting his delusion, and that wouldn't be courteous at all.
Sez you. Others may see it differently. When a friend's mother had alzheimers, he used to humor her all the time. When she asked where her husband was, who had died several years earlier, he'd just say he was out, and would be back soon. Sometimes, he told me, it's easier to do that than argue with her, or have her learn of his death several times a day, as if for the first time.
Of course, there's also the view that gender identity isn't a delusion at all, but surely you know that.
But that should be discussed.
I'd have to know him better to judge whether or not he's deluded about anything.
If their trans identity is good enough for them then it must be good enough for you.
Why wouldn't it be?
Or they very well might not.
I guess you'd have to ask her, if you really needed to know.
I only guessed about her reaction, anyway, and admitted as such at the time.
No problem. They can mutilate their body however they wish. I'm just saying, if they think that mutilating their body makes them a biological female (I doubt it) then they'd be wrong.
Again, I'm not a medical professional, so I can't discuss the intricacies of medical treatment.
Why, did they claim to be a different sex after their surgery?
Jennifer Grey didn't, no. Why, would that be a problem?
And I replied "To have there gender officially recognized on their birth certificate."
Okay. I still don't see a purpose to that, but who cares. It's not my birth certificate.
What is your point of view? So far most of your responses have been some variation of "Why should I care?" and "Don't ask me I'm not a ________".
My point of view is people should be free to live their lives as they see fit, and make whatever compromises to that they feel they are willing to make.
Plus too many logical fallacies to count.
What logical fallacies are those, exactly? I believe I addressed the ones you did mention.
I read past posts. All you did was revert the problem to HR. Never gave a solution of your own.
I offered one, but I'm sure there are more options available. A qualified HR rep would know those better than I would.
But in case I missed a post remind what that guess was.
You didn't miss it. You responded to it.
Belligerent? I thought I was just countering snarky remarks with snarky remarks.
Okay, maybe I misjudged you. I'll keep that in mind.
And you do seem to a a memory problem, because you've claim that I've said things I've never said.
No memory problems here. I read your posts and check back to previous ones to make sure I have the context correct.
If I've misinterpreted your motives or your intentions, then I apologize.
-- A2SG, maybe I was just hungry, still haven't found a roast beef sandwich as good as Buzzy's used to be....
