You will be held accountable for how you judge others. Do you want God to judge you based on the Torah, when you ignore 99% of the Mitzvot?
This thread is a perfect example of why I'm starting to despise modern day Christianity. The amount of misinformation and self-righteous condemnation is beyond words.
I really don't think most Christians are the vindictive vendetta seekers some people think they are. Do Christians get overzealous and forget the big picture that we are to be sharing the Word of God with the lost? Yeah, I think many do. Does that make them evil-out-to-get-all-those-who-disagree-kind-of-people? No, it makes them human.
...just because they do it without malice, whether out of ignorance, fear, confusion, zealotry, or some other reason, does not negate that they do do it, and it has consequences...
Was the sex change after the marriage?
Secondly he/she made the sex change before faith in Christ. This is the key bit. If he/she now knows the truth in Christ he/she can be forgiven.
We are trying to have a discussion about gender dysphoria, its bad enough having the T in LGBT without gay activists ruining the thread.
And yet ironically, you are the one that keeps turning every post about Transgenderism into an issue related to homosexuality because you think the 2 are in league with each other. You're the one ruining the thread.
Ah but thats the problem, we might say the same to pro-choice abortionists. We dont need to appeal to emotion. All the drug addict has to do to heal themselves is give up the drug, sounds simple yet many are unable to and die. The emotional appeal that somehow someones particular struggle is impossibly worse than others is not really evident.
Christians do not necessarily have lives that are trouble free, faith brings all kinds of challenges. Christs NT teaching says do not be surprised at the suffering. The very lives of many Christians worldwide are threatened, millions dont know where their next meal is coming from.
Thats an oxmoron. Some Christians experience gender dysphoria yes, but they would be Christians. Christianity is about Christ not human conditions. You see you seem to be saying the person with gender dysphoria must have their physical changed to match their mind and feelings, why? Why not have the mind and feelings changed to match the physical?
God did not design the mind to work that way. By age 5 or so brain starts loosing malleability and it slowly fades away until adulthood. If the brain is wired to think a certain way at birth and nothing is changed about it by adolescence, good luck changing their thinking process. God did this for many reasons (keeping people from being easily controlled by other people). However, the mind can be re-wired when there is no other option but to be re-wired. An example of this is language--it is hard to learn a second language after childhood, however, if you were dropped in the middle of,say, Russia with no money or connections, you would find it pretty easy to pick up Russian.
This malleability of the mind is one of the reasons why gender dysphoria is becoming more and more common. Even fifty years ago, none of this was possible and so the mind had to re-wire itself, since there was no other option.
But this rewiring is incomplete. An adult who learns a second language by "total immersion" does learn faster and more completely than one who learns in a classroom, but he still thinks in his native language and mentally translates everything. A bilingual child, who learns both languages young thinks in both languages. And since the "hard-wiring" for sexual identity occurs in the womb, it is almost impossible to successfully re-wire. That is why SRS is offered at all. It is, and should be, a last resort.
In past times, also, the "rewiring" was unsuccessful. Because of this, many transgenders mutilated themselves to rid themselves of the offending (male) genitals, or the offending (female) breasts. One Roman emperor, Heliobagus, who was himself transgendered, desperately funded research into safe and effective SRS. But the state of surgery at the time was insufficient to the task.
Oh, can you now.
Honestly, that is one of the most absurd and untrue statements I've ever read.
Would you ever, ever, ever in a million years choose to live as a female? No. And why? Because you are hardwired male. You couldn't live as a woman if your life depended on it.
The case of David Reimer proved beyond all doubt that gender is innate and hardwired. Born a normal male, his genitals were damaged during a botched circumcision. So, he was raised from infancy as a girl and renamed 'Brenda,' while his brother was raised a boy. 'Brenda' was never told what had happened, or why 'she' was being raised female. Yet, the 'girl' was never comfortable in that gender role, lived as an extreme tomboy and hated being a girl, and suffered terribly knowing that somehow 'her' life was all wrong. Eventually, at age 15, David defied his upbringing, took on the male life he was wired to live, and reclaimed his original name. Sadly, so much psychological and physical damage had been done to David through being forced to live as someone he was not, he ultimately took his own life.
If you don't believe any of this, look it up.
This is the pain gender dysphorics go through every single day, the pain you insist they should just try to live with. It doesn't work that way. You just can't live a life that is not yours.
Someone who has been diagnosed with a medical condition and undergoes treatment has no need to repent of having had medical treatment, and a persons medical history is not anyone else's business.
Some Christians experience gender dysphoria yes, but they would be Christians.
You see you seem to be saying the person with gender dysphoria must have their physical changed to match their mind and feelings, why? Why not have the mind and feelings changed to match the physical?
I'm sorry, I don't follow. Can you rephrase, please?
As Son of the West so elegantly stated, gender dysphoria is morally neutral. It is a medical condition, and carries no more ethical weight than correcting a damaged heart. I wish more people would understand that.
Because gender identity is hardwired into the brain (as was proven in the David Reimer case) and cannot be changed. The current state of medical science, however, allows for correction of the genitalia. It is not something done lightly, but only after years of counseling, medical treatment and real life experience.
And anyway, if the choice is between assigning primary importance to either a brain that is female or genitalia that are male, why in the world would you give precedence to the genitals? The brain is the miraculous, fragile center of who the person is, while genitalia are mindless tissue (except in the case of some, it seems).
Ok because the church is not the state. The OP refers to the reaction of the church, if it was after the marriage before God, then they arent necessarily the man and woman married.I had not considered that question. I think most states/countries still require a couple to be opposite sex in order to be married, and I read the scenario with the assumption that the sex change was before the marriage. Yet the question you raise is a possibility.
Well, as explained at length, you may have people having the sex change so they can indulge in their sexual deviances.It almost sounds as if there is an implication that since she had the sex change before coming to Christ, all is ok?
All things are forgiven in Christ, the question would be, if its wrong, have they actually come to Christ.Conversely, if the sex change was after coming to Christ, are you implying she couldn't be forgiven?
Not sure why you cant see them from their arguments, all the people who have argued against them know because we have all said as much.Not sure where the activists you mention are? I haven't seen anyone actively promoting LGB, only responses to those who refuse to separate the two topics.
No, LGBT the T in LGBT is Transgender, you seem to be trying to clain it isnt. hello?From here it appears that there are just a few who keep trying to throw transsexual (gender dysphoric) individuals under the bus the same way they do with LGB.
What's the difference between the two transsexual and transgender
The focus here should be partly on that (although there are too few clues in Scripture to be sure of God's specific commands to these people based on their condition), but mostly on how we, as Christians, should show God's love toward them....is this topic not about how God sees the situation?
The focus here should be partly on that (although there are too few clues in Scripture to be sure of God's specific commands to these people based on their condition), but mostly on how we, as Christians, should show God's love toward them.
Jesus, Paul, and James all focused on the command to show God's love to everyone equally. Rich or poor (James 2:1-3), saint or sinner (Matthew 9:10-11), Jew, Samaritan (Luke 17:12-19), or Gentile. Everyone. Equally. (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11)
And for the Christian, the command on how to show God's love to everyone, no matter who, and no matter their sin, is to show God's forgiveness. Unconditionally. That is, without putting any conditions or limitations on our forgiveness. We are never told to make them repent before we forgive them. In fact quite the opposite. If God does not grant them forgiveness in the final judgment, that is between them and God, and none of our business.
The act of unconditional forgiveness is not for their benefit, but for ours, and our communities'. If there are physical or legal consequences to their sins, those must play out. But we are not to compound their sins with ours; we must not harbor (sinful) thoughts of judgment or revenge or perform acts which show our un-charity toward the sinner.
If an ongoing sin is harming an innocent party, we can intervene and reason with the sinner, but we still must forgive him even while he is still sinning. We cannot condemn him, or judge him. Only Jesus can.
True we are tl forgive them if they sin against us...just because one may not agree with the way they live doesn't mean that this individual is condemning them...people are quick to play Tue judge card when someone has opposing points of view.
Well, as explained at length, you may have people having the sex change so they can indulge in their sexual deviances.
Not sure why you cant see them from their arguments, all the people who have argued against them know because we have all said as much. No, LGBT the T in LGBT is Transgender, you seem to be trying to clain itisnt. hello?
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