"Toronto Blessing"

[ChristianMuse]

Why is this kind of stuff (barking, roaring, farting, etc.) of any importance at all?

That God is moving to free people is the kind of stuff that the church needs. If he goes beyond your comfort zone, too bad, it still will happen. I have found that when the internal needs of the people are met the church then turns outward to share the blessing God has begun. It moves into all the areas you wrote are important. The sniping and the ridicule evidenced by your line above, I feel, is not appropriate.

 

[Shalia]

Why is this kind of stuff (barking, roaring, farting, etc.) of any importance at all? Did God design church to be a three-ring circus? Are church gatherings meant for our entertainment? This seems like such a waste of valuable time and energy. Surely there are more important things for us to consider – world poverty, starvation, AIDs in Africa, broken homes, abused children, substabce abuse … etc.etc., ad infinitum. God has to be grieved with our P/C preoccupation with “manifestations” and silliness like this.

\o/

Assuming I agree w/ the TB, <and that's an if> then perhaps God made people act silly for 2-3 hours a week to free them up, loosen them up, make them in awe of God in such a huge way that they didn't forget Him the other 6 days of the week and did something aout AIDs, broken homes, poverty, etc. on those days. Too many "Christians" are "pew warmers" who go back to being as secular as possible Mon-Sat, so maybe it was His wakeup call to those in that church to wake them up?

It's possible .

 

[swifteagle]

Er... as embarassing as this is to admit...

What are the "Toronto Blessings" anyways? People mention them and I have no clue.

Actually, the Toronto Blessing is/was characterized by the overwhelming love of the Father. God came down in such a way as to overwhelm His children with His love. Many people would "rest in the Spirit" and do "carpet time" for hours on end. Many shared how during that time, the Holy Spirit spoke to them and freed them from bondages of hurt, pain, distrust of the Lord, etc. So many people experienced a complete freedom during these sessions!

As for the leadership not adminstrating it well...How do you administrate the Holy Spirit. And..I think that was God's point. Many who attended meetings at Toronto came with a skeptical spirit only to get whacked by the Holy Spirit and leave that place a changed person!

The Toronto Blessing was a springboard for the move of intimacy and intercession that is happening now.

I was at Toronto and Pensacola and the so-called manifestations of barking and such, well I NEVER saw that. I'm not doubting that someone may have barked, at one time, and now it gets reported as if it was an all-the-time event.

The Lord did a deep work in my life through this special move of His Spirit and I wouldn't trade it for anything!

 

[Shalia]

Now, what exactly is "carpet time"? Sorry, I wasn't raised in a church at all, and I've only attended a Pentacostal one for just over a year, and I've honestly never heard of this before.

Thanks.

 

[SharonL]

I was at the Toronto Blessing - one of the most beautiful experiences of my life,

I never saw any of what you are talking about - there were group sessions - possibly this could have happened in one of those - maybe a deliverance or something.

One of the sessions I was in had us sit for 15 minutes and then write what the Lord gave us. I will list the poem the Lord gave me - it ministered to 6 people at the Toronto Blessing and to hundreds since then on the web page. Once I get to 15 posts I will come back and post the web with the story about it.

Here is what the Lord gave me.

=========================

I Love You Just the Way You Are

=========================
The mirror of the flesh can
sometimes be very cruel
the enemy uses this
so many he can fool.

Look at yourself in the
reflection of the living water
see yourself through the
eyes of our loving Father.

Man puts worth in how
we look
God tells us our real
worth through his book.

He plants us by the living waters
as trees of wisdom
with healing words from
our Father.

Words from man can leave our
hearts with a deep scar.
The enemy would like you
to think God is very far.

He's right there with arms
ready to hold.
Waiting for you to surrender
and give him your life to mold.

With every burden you allow
to enter your heart
you have given the enemy grounds for
destruction to start.

As we carry these problems
and try to find ways to fix them or use,
our precious Holy Father
we have, by lack of faith, abused.

Beneath each load of sorrow,
sad face, worry or pounds of weight,
we have not put our trust
in Jesus to determine our fate.

Our Holy Father stands
with outstretched arms that say 'come'
this battle for you
I have already won.

~~ Sharon Lambkin ~~

Never make fun of things of the Spirit - there is only one unforgiveable sin and it has to do with calling things of the Spirit as if they were not. I don't know for sure how this works - but please don't make fun of the way the Spirit works.

 

[Questioning Christian]

When Biblical "revivals" occurred, God did many things in people's lives. I wonder today what is really being accomplished by the current crop of revivals. I ask myself these questions in accordance to God's Word.

Too many are concerned with the SIGNS during the revivals and are not asking questions about the EFFECTS of the revivals.


1. Are the lost being turned to Christ in these revivals?

2. Are lives being truly changed as a result of these revivals?

3. Are bars, inappropriate content houses, and other houses of sin in that city being closed down because they are being emptied out?

4. Are the Christians' hearts convicted and turned toward OUTreach?

5. Are the revivals producing more of a reverence for God, not some silly "game show" atmosphere [where it's a free-for-all ruckus]?

6. Is there opposition from the world, toward these revivals?

7. Are these revivals sending out their blessed to tell others of Christ?

8. Are there real and true miracles?

9. Are families being brought closer together?

10. Is there broken-hearted weeping and forgiveness toward those who have offended you, and intercession for the souls of men during these revivals?

11. Are people being more emboldened to continue on as they always have in themselves, or are they broken and contrite and open to God's presence?

12. Is the revival being used for income, or for God?

13. Is there more stability, or instability, as a result of this revival?

14. Are the seekers, who come to this revival, getting more of a sense that "God only moves here in this location", or are they getting the sense that God moves based upon the hearts, regardless of geographic location?

15. Does anything come of the revival, or is it "business as usual" when it's all overwith?

 

[Questioning Christian]

I would have to call it the "Toronto Mixed Blessing".

 

[BillynJennifer]

In all actuality, revival is for those who are all ready children of God. The word revival gives the idea that one has been "vived" at one time and is now being revived. We have the great commision that was given to us that we should be carrying out on a daily basis. Could God be doing these things that are so strange in our eyes to REVIVE us so that we might be able to carry out the great commision given us?

I also must wonder, if the 120 in the upper room were absolutely accused of being drunk on Pentecost, they must've been doing some really weird things themselves. Have you ever watched a real drunk? They might dance, sing, laugh, cry, get violent, shout, or any number of other things. Now, I'm not using that as justification for manifestations and demonstrations of the Holy Ghost, but logic tells us that the natural types and shadows the spiritual.

 

[Reazzurro90]

Now, what exactly is "carpet time"? Sorry, I wasn't raised in a church at all, and I've only attended a Pentacostal one for just over a year, and I've honestly never heard of this before.

Thanks.

With those with the Toronto "Blessing", carpet time is when the Holy Spirit supposedly comes on you (with all that jazz, Holy Laughter, etc), and you fall on the floor.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I don't know enough about the Toronto idea to give an opinion . It does strike me as something that I have seen in other P/C groups . I do think that some of this is from the Lord . But , knowing how some P/C people do things , I can see it being faked by others and even thinking that a certain thing was to be carried on every meeting .

So , I picked "other" .

 

[Christina M]

Never make fun of things of the Spirit - there is only one unforgiveable sin and it has to do with calling things of the Spirit as if they were not. I don't know for sure how this works - but please don't make fun of the way the Spirit works.

Very wise words.

 

[Christina M]

With those with the Toronto "Blessing", carpet time is when the Holy Spirit supposedly comes on you (with all that jazz, Holy Laughter, etc), and you fall on the floor.

Actually, carpet time is time spent ministering to and being ministered by the Lord.

 

[Child of JC]

Why is this kind of stuff (barking, roaring, farting, etc.) of any importance at all? Did God design church to be a three-ring circus? Are church gatherings meant for our entertainment? This seems like such a waste of valuable time and energy. Surely there are more important things for us to consider – world poverty, starvation, AIDs in Africa, broken homes, abused children, substabce abuse … etc.etc., ad infinitum. God has to be grieved with our P/C preoccupation with “manifestations” and silliness like this.

\o/

I'm not sure that everyone is "preoccupied with manifestation". It's not the outward sign that the true believers are seeking, but the inside work that is done (by God) through them. The devil does not own all of the silliness, just the stuff that did not produce any fruit. Our Father is not running a circus, but He is healing, revealing, loving....

 

[SuperDuperMan]

I remember a passage in the Book of Acts where a group of religious leaders were discussing the new emerging Christian movement. Most of them were condemning it. One wise pharisee got up and said "We have seen movements come and go, and if this one is not of God, it will die away like the others. But be careful about judging it just in case it is of God, because if it is of God, you might find yourselves fighting against and criticising God."

I think that was wise advice. He was not saying that it was of God or not of God, but to be careful about criticising new movements too quickly before waiting to see what the final outcome is.

For, the post that described the movement today where it has a multi million dollar building with only a fraction of the congregation that paid for it, and the members who are left are arguing with each other, tells me a lot out about the outcome of the revival. Did it stand the test of time?

Well you can answer that for yourselves.

 

[Child of JC]

With those with the Toronto "Blessing", carpet time is when the Holy Spirit supposedly comes on you (with all that jazz, Holy Laughter, etc), and you fall on the floor.

Do you think that the Lord is unable to do this? Or you think that it just did not happen in Toronto? Or our God is to "mature" to do things like this? Do you think that the WHOLE thing was of the devil?

There is alot of fruit that was produced there, fruit that the devil could not/would not manipulate. Like people getting saved, alot of people! Surly this was not of the devil. I can not believe that some people rolled around on the floor enjoying satan, and then got up and gave their lives to Jesus. God also used "carpet time" to change hearts, and speaking to some of them, they are still changed! They are still loving God. Did satan do that too? Satan surly has a hayday keeping us focused on the outside, when the Lord is all about the inside.

 

[TreeOfLife]

When Biblical "revivals" occurred, God did many things in people's lives. I wonder today what is really being accomplished by the current crop of revivals. I ask myself these questions in accordance to God's Word.

Too many are concerned with the SIGNS during the revivals and are not asking questions about the EFFECTS of the revivals.


1. Are the lost being turned to Christ in these revivals?

2. Are lives being truly changed as a result of these revivals?

3. Are bars, inappropriate content houses, and other houses of sin in that city being closed down because they are being emptied out?

4. Are the Christians' hearts convicted and turned toward OUTreach?

5. Are the revivals producing more of a reverence for God, not some silly "game show" atmosphere [where it's a free-for-all ruckus]?

6. Is there opposition from the world, toward these revivals?

7. Are these revivals sending out their blessed to tell others of Christ?

8. Are there real and true miracles?

9. Are families being brought closer together?

10. Is there broken-hearted weeping and forgiveness toward those who have offended you, and intercession for the souls of men during these revivals?

11. Are people being more emboldened to continue on as they always have in themselves, or are they broken and contrite and open to God's presence?

12. Is the revival being used for income, or for God?

13. Is there more stability, or instability, as a result of this revival?

14. Are the seekers, who come to this revival, getting more of a sense that "God only moves here in this location", or are they getting the sense that God moves based upon the hearts, regardless of geographic location?

15. Does anything come of the revival, or is it "business as usual" when it's all overwith?

Just like an investigative journalist's credo might be "follow the money", so should ours be "follow the glory".

Is God glorified? Or does the glory go to the "anointed" pastors? Or even the place itself? Are the "manifestations" actually what is being glorified?

 

[ChristianMuse]

Too many are concerned with the SIGNS during the revivals and are not asking questions about the EFFECTS of the revivals.

When the Spirit moves the heart is changed and it will manifest itself doing works of the heart.

 

[BillynJennifer]

I wonder if "carpet time" would be called something else if this movement started in, say, Guatemala? Would it be called "dirt floor time"?

I amuse myself...

 

[12volt_man]

I remember a passage in the Book of Acts where a group of religious leaders were discussing the new emerging Christian movement. Most of them were condemning it. One wise pharisee got up and said "We have seen movements come and go, and if this one is not of God, it will die away like the others. But be careful about judging it just in case it is of God, because if it is of God, you might find yourselves fighting against and criticising God."

Remember though, that was a statement from one pagan to a group of other pagans, not a teaching to Christians.

If it was, then the Bible would be contradicting itself when it tells us that we are to judge the teachings we hear and those who teach them.

 

[LivingWorship]

I can't speak with any authority, I wasnt there. There is some damning stuff about it on the net but as with all of these things, it's hard to know what's right and what's wrong where the internet is involved. I know more about Pensacola/Brownsville than i do about Toronto but I hear they were similar... but I believe, were you to ask John Kilpatrick or Lindell Cooley, they would unequivocally tell you God was in it. I do believe God was awakening hearts and some humans may have emotionally hyped things or whatever... but in short, I am not prepared to write the whole thing off. I am aware of some bizaare manifestations and how much of that is God and how much the devil and how much, humans is really beyond me. But as I said, I believe the leaders simply were desperate for God to awaken their churches and communities.