• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Tools far pre date man, evolution theory kicked in face

Status
Not open for further replies.

davedajobauk

dum spiro spero
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2006
55,183
28,520
77
Salford, Greater Manchester. UK
✟300,707.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single


I don't know what your question (if-any) is

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/nature-online/life/human-origins/modern-human-evolution/when/index.html

Even the 'Apes' use tools, instinctively
and 'Man' has a need 'to tool himself up'
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Al T

Go Wildcats!
May 22, 2015
180
136
United Kingdom
✟23,544.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Perhaps the real question is one of perception?

It's true than no other species has built factories, but that doesn't negate their ability to turn an object into a rudimentary tool, does it?

I can imagine though that for those in the community who believe in Young Earth Creationism
this would be an issue....

The simple fact is that we'll never know the origin of these tools precisely - and that humans are the planets supreme tool users. (Unless there's Aliens knocking about somewhere)
 
Upvote 0

The Cadet

SO COOL
Apr 29, 2010
6,290
4,743
Munich
✟53,117.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
I feel the need to point out that Russia Today is about as reliable a news source as Infowars or NaturalNews. Not a place you want to be getting your information. Not that I'm aware of any particular bias with regards to evolution, but their reporting is typically shoddy and low on details and sources.

Anyways. What's the story here? Well, we've found rudimentary stone tools in strata dated to 3.3 million BCE.

If you read the coverage of this news from The Houston Chronicle, also known as "An actual newspaper" and/or "A source whose journalists aren't so asleep at the wheel that they'd invite Liam Scheff onto the program and then let him lie without fact-checking him even once", they offer some useful context:


In other words, this was not exactly a bolt from the blue. Furthermore, you see passages like this:


The key here: we aren't sure. We don't know exactly what was responsible for these tools. Some early hominin is likely (indeed, at the same dig site, they found Kenyanthropus platyops, so there's a clue right there), but we can't be sure quite yet. We also can't be quite sure what the stones were used for.


There are numerous interesting questions that this raises, questions that require further research to fully understand. And here's where we see the difference in attitude between a scientist and a creationist.

The scientist looks at this and rubs his hands together with glee, thinking, "Oh boy, I get to solve a mystery and learn more about the world!"
The creationist looks at this and rubs his hands together with glee, thinking, "Oh boy, I have no idea how this could have happened, therefore evolution must be wrong!"

No. Sorry. Anyone seriously wondering whether this has any impact on the status of evolution, spend five minutes and shoot an email to anyone involved with this dig and ask them whether they believe that this contradicts common descent in any significant way. I guarantee you that they will say no.
 
Upvote 0

lesliedellow

Member
Sep 20, 2010
9,654
2,582
United Kingdom
Visit site
✟119,577.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
It grabs me as a sick joke. Only inside your mind do those exist. You would have more credibility saying Sasquatch did it! At least thousands of people claim to have seen those. Always nice to see evolution get one right in the chops.

Dad has got a "logic" which is all his own. The only thing the existence of those tools establishes is that Australopithecus afarensis, or some other of our ancestor species, was smarter than previously imagined.
 
Upvote 0

Al T

Go Wildcats!
May 22, 2015
180
136
United Kingdom
✟23,544.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I always find it interesting to see how the 'belief' in one thing can override the 'belief' in another rather than them compliment each other.
Dad believes what he believes and nothing anyone says will change that. I kind of respect that - I don't understand it, but that's a different point.

PS RT isn't a valid source of journalism? Shock-horror!
 
Reactions: The Cadet
Upvote 0

davedajobauk

dum spiro spero
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2006
55,183
28,520
77
Salford, Greater Manchester. UK
✟300,707.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
LOL

I had some chuckles (here and there) as I read 'down' this page

Prehistoric 'tool-making'... was maybe, not widely known to us ~before, this latest discovery
which will affirm, that at-least, one, ancient 'hominin' (his family) had such ability [wisdom]

It may, just so-happen (could we keep an open mind, on this revelationary discovery)
that this 'early-inventor's discoveries' simply, took a few tens of thousands of years, to catch-on
ie: to a time, where such-practice, is so-much more commonplace

I would guess, that the EVIDENCE for even-earlier tool-making, is OUT-THERE (somewhere)
just awaiting discovery / needing only, the erosion of covering layers of, history to become 'fact'


dave
 
Upvote 0

nobdysfool

The original! Accept no substitutes!
Feb 23, 2003
15,018
1,006
Home, except when I'm not....
✟21,146.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution


If those far in the future archaeologists are anything like the ones of today, anything they find will be immediately assumed to have "some religious significance".
 
Upvote 0

davedajobauk

dum spiro spero
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2006
55,183
28,520
77
Salford, Greater Manchester. UK
✟300,707.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No, what I meant to say was that the mountain of evidence supporting evolution is conclusive. It's just that the creationists keep trying to chip away at it with nothing more than ice picks.

Yes, I 'kind-of' agree with that 'thinking too'
I mean, that is the chronology of 'everything' that is the most confusing (puzzling)


 
Upvote 0

davedajobauk

dum spiro spero
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2006
55,183
28,520
77
Salford, Greater Manchester. UK
✟300,707.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single


I guess, that Area 51 would quickly swallow the facts, if 'archeologists' were to discover
ray guns and hover scooters even-deeper

LOL
 
Upvote 0

MiniEmu

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
May 19, 2015
983
1,033
37
UK
✟29,220.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
If those far in the future archaeologists are anything like the ones of today, anything they find will be immediately assumed to have "some religious significance".

Naturally.
It's one of the little known joys of uncovering artefacts from long gone civilisations, wondering if it could possibly be some kind of religious artefact and how that would have fitted into what is thought to be known about the culture of the time.

Anyone who happens to be an archaeologist, I know it's a little more work and serious interpretation than I'm making it out to be.
 
Upvote 0

davedajobauk

dum spiro spero
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2006
55,183
28,520
77
Salford, Greater Manchester. UK
✟300,707.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Getting down to the 'Nitty-Gritty'

The 'tool'(s) must have been buried (after-use) in soil (dated, via: scientific tests /processes)
that was itself subsequently buried by much later inundations, of soils
[chicken and the egg]
Produced by 'hands' of some creature, for intelligent purpose

Humanoids (the remains of) have been found interred (by time) in soils that have long-since
become rock that have been calculated to be 6 - 7 million years old

So, let us take the 'written word', as recordings, of, the peoples then-living, at the time that
writing was invented......and agree, that 'men' have walked upon this planet
for many millions of years, before writing, then also became 'a tool'



dave
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This is an example of not being able to see the forest for all the trees.


I don't see monkeys constructing a tool making factory and producing tools. They may ram a stick in a tree for fruit or something...
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I know the origin. Man made them. Why not face it? Are you that desperate to align with so called science that you lose contact with the obvious?
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
No, what I meant to say was that the mountain of evidence supporting evolution is conclusive. It's just that the creationists keep trying to chip away at it with nothing more than ice picks.
All the evidence for evolving agrees with the bible and started at creation with the created kinds. Someone sold you a bridge real cheap I see.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.