Todays State of Israel Is Not Final Return

[Barney2.0]

I chatted ONCE to ONE who lived in Jerusalem. Your research and evidence is overwhelming.

I’m just replying to your statement which gave no statistics either.

 

[Episaw]

I’m just replying to your statement which gave no statistics either.

So my bad is sufficient reason for you to do twice as bad.

 

[Barney2.0]

So my bad is sufficient reason for you to do twice as bad.

Nope, just replying in kind.

 

[Episaw]

Nope, just replying in kind.

Heard of a thing called grace?

 

[Barney2.0]

Heard of a thing called grace?

No I haven't.

 

[Episaw]

No I haven't.

That explains everything

 

[parousia70]

No I haven't.

Hey, whats it like being a Christian living in Saudi Arabia?
You must have some VERY interesting stories to tell.

 

[Barney2.0]

Hey, whats it like being a Christian living in Saudi Arabia?
You must have some VERY interesting stories to tell.

No Churches anywhere, everyone assumes your Muslim on the outside, no apostasy from Islam or you die, no wearing crosses in public, hide your Bibles if you have any, that’s practically it. Your religion is non existent here.

 

[Barney2.0]

Doesn't your preferred eschaton likewise call for 2/3 of the worlds Jews to be violently exterminated sometime in our near future?
Maybe it's only ok when your side does it?
Is it simply that you don't want the Muslims to beat your guy to the Job?

Muslims, like many Christians, Believe Jesus was the Israelite Messiah incarnate who will come again and defeat the false messiah in the end days.
That's a fact.

The Muslim Jesus is not the Christian Jesus, infact the Islamic name for Jesus isn’t even the Arabic name for Jesus, so we can’t even say they believe in a different version of Jesus. The Islamic Isa is only loosely based on the Biblical Messiah however they’re not the same people, according to Muslims themselves.

 

[NeedyFollower]

1 John 2:22 Who is the liar, if it is not the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, who denies the Father and the Son.

Can you name a single Christian who says Jesus is not the Christ?

Men say many things. All my life I knew Jesus was the messiah ..the Christ... having been raised in an American church but I did not know Him or maybe I was not known by him ....Lord , Lord didn't we in your name do XYZ ??? By the way ..I believe that 1 John was a letter to answer a recent groups of Gnostics who denied that Jesus had come in the flesh . That is what I believe and looking at the content , it appears to be so .
So what I am trying to say ..and I say this in deference ( and agreement ) to Ken Ranks earlier post ( # 113 ) regarding condemnation for it Is Gods business to judge , not mine . My HOPE is that everyone called by His name will hear Him say " Well done thy good and faithful servant . " There are many many thousands of denominations which have been caused by taking one part of a writing ( which was not written to establish doctrine necessarily ) and used it to establish a separate group . Some would call this confusion Babylon . Is it ? I do not know but I do believe the enemy of the TRUTH is subtle ..the most subtle of all the creatures ...Believers will not be deceived by something or someone obvious . The Jews who knew scripture very very well did not see the messiah when He was with them for their "doctrine" and prejudice kept them from seeing the truth . I expect it will be the same with " ANTICHRIST " or false Christ . Pseudo-Christ . Those who "see" may not .

 

[NeedyFollower]

There will not be any escape for those that rule over His people in Jerusalem Isaiah 28:14

The covenant of Death that they have made will be annulled Isaiah 28:18

A consumption is determined upon the whole earth. Isaiah 28:22

~

Why is there destruction determined upon the whole earth?

As Prophesied "In those days and in that time" A Hebrew idiom for the last generation that YHWH would bring back the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem Joel 3:1 And that He would bring All the nations into the Valley of Jehoshaphat (Translated: YHWH Judges) And He tells you the reason for Judgement - It is For His people that are scattered and because the nations parted His Land Joel 3:2

I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for My people and for My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted My Land.


The nations "did it" democratically, they have been sold out to Greek democracy! By a UN Vote!

And were Told that they are the invaders on the Land that the the ALMIGHTY Has given them

Joel 3:6
The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.

Joel 3:7
Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:

Joel 3:9 ... prepare for war...
~

When was the first time ever publicly and politically did another nation pressure Israel to accept a two state solution? The Covenant of Death.

It was when g w bush mentioned it as his plan to bring peace to the Middle East in the roadmap for peace speech he gave in 2002. Ezekiel 36:5

Ezekiel 36:5
Therefore thus saith Adonai YHWH; Surely in the fire of My jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the Nations, and against all Idumea, which have appointed My Land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

365 days a year His eyes are on Jerusalem. Isaiah 62:6-7

Just because the root of the problem - has abstained or may be dealing differently now with the situation that was created - (doesn't look like it) - Either way it does not change the FACT that the USA is to Blame and that the rulers over His people in Jerusalem who continue to go along with it, accepted it as a possible solution...

stringing along the Dog - Like maybe someday - Woe Woe Woe to the usa usa usa

Well obviously there are many things about which we do not know . Many early Jews of the christian era ( the apostle Peter for example ) believed the world was going to be destroyed with fire which agrees with the 13th Chapter of Isiah . Paul also had this understanding ..for we look for a heavenly city who's maker and builder is God. Man built earthly Jerusalem according to the Old covenant . The new convenant was a better covenant which included gentiles ( like myself ) ... I do not understand why chrisitians encourage Jews to hold on to yesterdays's bonfire ( according to Peter and Paul ) . It does not make sense . Paul had a burden for his brethern according to the flesh ..we should as well . Jesus said to make disciples teaching them to observe all that he commanded ...Jesus never said to provide 400 million in military aid to a future country called Israel so that they may kill their enemies . Not in my bible ..I do not know THAT Jesus .

 

[SonOfZion]

Well obviously there are many things about which we do not know . Many early Jews of the christian era ( the apostle Peter for example ) believed the world was going to be destroyed with fire which agrees with the 13th Chapter of Isiah . Paul also had this understanding ..for we look for a heavenly city who's maker and builder is God. Man built earthly Jerusalem according to the Old covenant . The new convenant was a better covenant which included gentiles ( like myself ) ... I do not understand why chrisitians encourage Jews to hold on to yesterdays's bonfire ( according to Peter and Paul ) . It does not make sense . Paul had a burden for his brethern according to the flesh ..we should as well . Jesus said to make disciples teaching them to observe all that he commanded ...Jesus never said to provide 400 million in military aid to a future country called Israel so that they may kill their enemies . Not in my bible ..I do not know THAT Jesus .

The scriptures tell you that the leaders that rule over modern day Israel are evil - Isaiah 28:14

They will not Escape Isaiah 28:18

Context - The End Isaiah 28:22

Israel should have never relied on so-called US support, YHWH is well capable of fighting their battles

Israel Should have never relinquished anything that was recovered in the 6 day war. (Testimonies of Angels seen by Israel and Egyptian Generals) No US support was needed.

Should have never succumbed to US pressure and give up the Gaza (It is interesting how Katrina hit the usa, the very day that Jews who had left the Gaza were no longer allowed to return.)

The plan to divide Israel now into two states, is a plan that was first mentioned by g w bush in 2002

Total annihilation of the usa Revelation 18:6, 8 in one day

Thank you USA USA USA, for all you support.

Sincerely Bibi

The nation that will be born in one day, Will follow the Torah

Judah has partially returned as prophesied Zechariah 12 , the rest of the tribes have not. Ezekiel 39:25

Then - Isaiah 66:8 - Psalms 102:16 - Titus 2:13

ESV - "hath built" why didn't they follow the rule that they employed in these verses? A Very important Verse? Same verb, Same Tense.

When YHWH shall build up Zion, He shall appear in His glory. Ps 102:16

Qal - Perfect

For Elohim will save Zion, and will build H1129 the cities of Judah: that they may dwell there, and have it in possession. Psalms 69:35

Thy seed I will establish for ever, and build up H1129 Thy throne to all generations. Selah. Psalms 89:4

 

[BABerean2]

The nation that will be born in one day, Will follow the Torah

The New Covenant is not like the Sinai Covenant, which Israel broke.
It was fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary. (Matthew 26:28)
He is the only one to ever follow the Torah, perfectly.
He built us a new house out of two pieces of wood and a handful of nails.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Some have failed to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage", as Paul compelled the Galatian believers to do in the passage below.


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


We are not come to the mountain that burns with fire, but instead to Mount Sion and New Jerusalem of the New Covenant of Christ. (Hebrews 12:18-24)

.

 

[SonOfZion]

The New Covenant is not like the Sinai Covenant, which Israel broke.
It was fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary. (Matthew 26:28)
He is the only one to ever follow the Torah, perfectly.
He built us a new house out of two pieces of wood and a handful of nails.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Some have failed to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage", as Paul compelled the Galatian believers to do in the passage below.


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


We are not come to the mountain that burns with fire, but instead to Mount Sion and New Jerusalem of the New Covenant of Christ. (Hebrews 12:18-24)

.

Unaware to me, as you responded here, I was responding to a post you made here Other Sheep

So Rather than Answer this again, which in this case would be redundant

copy and paste the post in the link here - Let's get this discussion started - Await your rebuttal in the other sheep thread.

 

[Choir Loft]

Dont think for a second the Israeli flag is the hand of God at work.He didn't give them that idol to worship.

The modern State of Israel is, without doubt, the absolute work of the hand of God. The nation could not have been forged nor would nationhood have been accomplished without God's approval. It is a miracle of divine providence. The day after achieving independence Israel was attacked by neighboring Arab states numbering some sixty million people. The attacks failed. Nothing less than the hand of God could have allowed Israel to succeed as a nation and as a people. Israel is a miracle for all the world to see.

To my best knowledge, Israelis do not worship their flag or pray to it by uttering a pledge of allegiance AS AMERICANS DO.

The Jewish statement of faith is called the Shema (pronounced sh-ma).
Shema Yisrael.
Adonai eloheinu.
Adonai echad.

"Hear O Israel the Lord your God. The Lord is one."
- Deuteronomy 6:4

This is the oldest continuously used statement of faith in the world. I don't see any reference to a flag in these words. Do you? Quite the contrary. The Israeli statement of faith, or allegiance if that's what you want to call it, is to Adonai. By way of contrast, Americans pledge their oath of allegiance to a rag and to a government - a piece of cloth and an institution of human creation instead of God.

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands....."

American allegiance to God is subservient to that of the flag and the Washington DC government.

For instance, in most Protestant churches the US flag is displayed in a sanctuary at stage right. According to US flag display etiquette, the flag is supposed to be displayed at its own right with all other flags and symbols of lesser importance to its left - including but not limited to the cross of Jesus Christ. In churches, where symbolism is very important, the display implies American Christians hold their government in higher regard that than of their god. Google it.

In point of fact, the oldest representative icon of the Jewish people is the seven branched candle called the menorah. The Star of David presently displayed in the center of the flag of Israel was first used in 11th or 12the century documents as a reference to God. It is perfectly appropriate for a people and a nation to adopt any symbol they choose to represent themselves and their identity.

The Star of David as an Israeli identification with God has been, sometimes involuntarily, accepted and sealed in blood by their enemies as well as their allies.

There is no evidence whatsoever in word or in deed that the citizens of Israel worship their flag - as indeed Americans worship the stars and stripes and the government for which it stands.

Hope this clears things up for you.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS
I worship God. My allegiance is to Him, not any flag. Although I am a veteran who has served with honor and suffered permanent injury, I do not salute or otherwise express my allegiance to the flag or the government. I obey its laws and pay its taxes, which is all that Jesus did when He walked among us.

If it was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

 

[BABerean2]

The modern State of Israel is, without doubt, the absolute work of the hand of God. The nation could not have been forged nor would nationhood have been accomplished without God's approval. It is a miracle of divine providence. The day after achieving independence Israel was attacked by neighboring Arab states numbering some sixty million people. The attacks failed. Nothing less than the hand of God could have allowed Israel to succeed as a nation and as a people. Israel is a miracle for all the world to see.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

.

 

[Choir Loft]

The battle for the souls of modern Orthodox Jews is happening every day in the modern State of Israel.
Some things have not changed since the first century.

Zev Porat's ministry in Tel Aviv:

Orthodox Rabbi speaks Talmudic blasphemy against Christ in the video below.

It should be noted here that the Hasidim, a minority in the Israeli community, hold a tight reign upon the laws and traditions and values of the official State.

but they do not speak for all Jews.......

For instance, Reform (reform, not reformED) Jews or Sephardic Jews are generally not as fanatic about the controversy surrounding the person of Jesus Christ or those Jews who've accepted Yeshuah (the Hebrew name of Jesus) as are the Hasidim. They are just as willing to live peacefully with Messianic Jews as with Muslims or Christians.

It may be of interest for you to learn that although Israeli laws of citizenship, which adhere to the political influence of the Hasidim, allow Muslims to enjoy citizenship, but do not allow Messianic Jews to enjoy citizenship. Two sephardic Jews, messianic friends of mine, applied this past spring to immigrate to Israel, but were denied entry. The immigration laws still stand according to Orthodox discipline.

THE TALMUD - heart of Orthodox Judaism
According to the Bible, God divided Israel because of their sins and blaspheme against Him. The northern kingdom of ten tribes was assimilated by the Assyrian empire and the southern kingdom of Judah was taken captive to Babylon for seventy years. The Bible says this happened because the Jews forgot God, disobeyed His Law (the Torah), ignored His prophets and failed to follow the observance of the Year of Jubilee (to forgive debt, free servants of their obligations, return real estate to its previous owners, etc).

While in Babylon, Jewish scholars and priests became fanatical about obeying God. Their religious zeal returned to the religion of their fathers, but with an added sting. They went too far. Unfortunately instead of going back to their roots as revealed by Moses in the Torah (1st five books of the Bible), Jewish religious leaders concocted rules and laws of their own. They literally went berserk and became fanatical. The result was hundreds of Laws and self-justified pretenses and attitudes called the Talmud.

For instance, an axiom of Talmudic law holds that when two or three Rabbis agree on a thing their decision or interpretation exceeds that of Adonai - superior to God himself. There is no such thing as conceit among Talmudic scholars. Ask one and they'll tell you.

Sadly the Hasidim live in an odd sort of religious bubble. For them nothing exists apart from their philosophy. They're only in it for themselves.....some might argue they have their own separate religion altogether. Even Jesus, the anointed suffering servant (that's what messiah means - the anointed one), was unable to make a dent in the Orthodox mindset when He came the first time. That turned out to be a blessing for the gentile world, but a source of jealousy for Jews. To this day the Hasidim are irate about it.

Prophets of ancient Israel predicted two visitations by ha-mashiach.

The first visit was as the Son of Jacob - the suffering servant (Isaiah 53).(*) The second visit will be as JUDGE - the Son of David. (book of Daniel & Revelation) The pharisees, orthodox Jewish community, got it wrong the first time and quite possibly may get it wrong the next time.

It will be interesting to see how the Orthodox handle things when Yeshuah appears the second time - this time to judge.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Orthodox Jews have no idea how to deal with Isaiah 53, so they ignore it the way folks ignore someone passing gas in an elevator. Although unseen, it's obviously there. Hasidim act as though they breath completely different air even though they are in the same elevator as the rest of us.

 

[BABerean2]

It will be interesting to see how the Orthodox handle things when Yeshuah appears the second time - this time to judge.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1. 2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

.

 

[jgr]

It should be noted here that the Hasidim, a minority in the Israeli community, hold a tight reign upon the laws and traditions and values of the official State.

but they do not speak for all Jews.......

For instance, Reform (reform, not reformED) Jews or Sephardic Jews are generally not as fanatic about the controversy surrounding the person of Jesus Christ or those Jews who've accepted Yeshuah (the Hebrew name of Jesus) as are the Hasidim. They are just as willing to live peacefully with Messianic Jews as with Muslims or Christians.

It may be of interest for you to learn that although Israeli laws of citizenship, which adhere to the political influence of the Hasidim, allow Muslims to enjoy citizenship, but do not allow Messianic Jews to enjoy citizenship. Two sephardic Jews, messianic friends of mine, applied this past spring to immigrate to Israel, but were denied entry. The immigration laws still stand according to Orthodox discipline.

THE TALMUD - heart of Orthodox Judaism
According to the Bible, God divided Israel because of their sins and blaspheme against Him. The northern kingdom of ten tribes was assimilated by the Assyrian empire and the southern kingdom of Judah was taken captive to Babylon for seventy years. The Bible says this happened because the Jews forgot God, disobeyed His Law (the Torah), ignored His prophets and failed to follow the observance of the Year of Jubilee (to forgive debt, free servants of their obligations, return real estate to its previous owners, etc).

While in Babylon, Jewish scholars and priests became fanatical about obeying God. Their religious zeal returned to the religion of their fathers, but with an added sting. They went too far. Unfortunately instead of going back to their roots as revealed by Moses in the Torah (1st five books of the Bible), Jewish religious leaders concocted rules and laws of their own. They literally went berserk and became fanatical. The result was hundreds of Laws and self-justified pretenses and attitudes called the Talmud.

For instance, an axiom of Talmudic law holds that when two or three Rabbis agree on a thing their decision or interpretation exceeds that of Adonai - superior to God himself. There is no such thing as conceit among Talmudic scholars. Ask one and they'll tell you.

Sadly the Hasidim live in an odd sort of religious bubble. For them nothing exists apart from their philosophy. They're only in it for themselves.....some might argue they have their own separate religion altogether. Even Jesus, the anointed suffering servant (that's what messiah means - the anointed one), was unable to make a dent in the Orthodox mindset when He came the first time. That turned out to be a blessing for the gentile world, but a source of jealousy for Jews. To this day the Hasidim are irate about it.

Prophets of ancient Israel predicted two visitations by ha-mashiach.

The first visit was as the Son of Jacob - the suffering servant (Isaiah 53).(*) The second visit will be as JUDGE - the Son of David. (book of Daniel & Revelation) The pharisees, orthodox Jewish community, got it wrong the first time and quite possibly may get it wrong the next time.

It will be interesting to see how the Orthodox handle things when Yeshuah appears the second time - this time to judge.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Orthodox Jews have no idea how to deal with Isaiah 53, so they ignore it the way folks ignore someone passing gas in an elevator. Although unseen, it's obviously there. Hasidim act as though they breath completely different air even though they are in the same elevator as the rest of us.

How are you defining "Jew"?

The contemporary Jewish religiocultural community acknowledges and applauds the scientifically-established reality that Israel is genetically in all of us.

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

"Jewishness" is no longer genetic, but religious and/or cultural.

Therefore, if someone embraces Talmudism and/or Jewish culture, they become "chosen"?

 

[shilohsfoal]

It should be noted here that the Hasidim, a minority in the Israeli community, hold a tight reign upon the laws and traditions and values of the official State.

but they do not speak for all Jews.......

For instance, Reform (reform, not reformED) Jews or Sephardic Jews are generally not as fanatic about the controversy surrounding the person of Jesus Christ or those Jews who've accepted Yeshuah (the Hebrew name of Jesus) as are the Hasidim. They are just as willing to live peacefully with Messianic Jews as with Muslims or Christians.

It may be of interest for you to learn that although Israeli laws of citizenship, which adhere to the political influence of the Hasidim, allow Muslims to enjoy citizenship, but do not allow Messianic Jews to enjoy citizenship. Two sephardic Jews, messianic friends of mine, applied this past spring to immigrate to Israel, but were denied entry. The immigration laws still stand according to Orthodox discipline.

THE TALMUD - heart of Orthodox Judaism
According to the Bible, God divided Israel because of their sins and blaspheme against Him. The northern kingdom of ten tribes was assimilated by the Assyrian empire and the southern kingdom of Judah was taken captive to Babylon for seventy years. The Bible says this happened because the Jews forgot God, disobeyed His Law (the Torah), ignored His prophets and failed to follow the observance of the Year of Jubilee (to forgive debt, free servants of their obligations, return real estate to its previous owners, etc).

While in Babylon, Jewish scholars and priests became fanatical about obeying God. Their religious zeal returned to the religion of their fathers, but with an added sting. They went too far. Unfortunately instead of going back to their roots as revealed by Moses in the Torah (1st five books of the Bible), Jewish religious leaders concocted rules and laws of their own. They literally went berserk and became fanatical. The result was hundreds of Laws and self-justified pretenses and attitudes called the Talmud.

For instance, an axiom of Talmudic law holds that when two or three Rabbis agree on a thing their decision or interpretation exceeds that of Adonai - superior to God himself. There is no such thing as conceit among Talmudic scholars. Ask one and they'll tell you.

Sadly the Hasidim live in an odd sort of religious bubble. For them nothing exists apart from their philosophy. They're only in it for themselves.....some might argue they have their own separate religion altogether. Even Jesus, the anointed suffering servant (that's what messiah means - the anointed one), was unable to make a dent in the Orthodox mindset when He came the first time. That turned out to be a blessing for the gentile world, but a source of jealousy for Jews. To this day the Hasidim are irate about it.

Prophets of ancient Israel predicted two visitations by ha-mashiach.

The first visit was as the Son of Jacob - the suffering servant (Isaiah 53).(*) The second visit will be as JUDGE - the Son of David. (book of Daniel & Revelation) The pharisees, orthodox Jewish community, got it wrong the first time and quite possibly may get it wrong the next time.

It will be interesting to see how the Orthodox handle things when Yeshuah appears the second time - this time to judge.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) Orthodox Jews have no idea how to deal with Isaiah 53, so they ignore it the way folks ignore someone passing gas in an elevator. Although unseen, it's obviously there. Hasidim act as though they breath completely different air even though they are in the same elevator as the rest of us.

In the bible before that great and terrible day of the lord ,it is written they worship a star they have as a symbol of thier government.
What for you know of that star which they worship?