Todays State of Israel Is Not Final Return

[Ken Rank]

No, they might not be atheist, but today’s Jews are not Gods chosen people.

So we have gone from an atheist nation to not atheist but not God's chosen? As for the latter, you need to read prophecy more. The new covenant is made with the House of Judah >>AND<< the House of Israel. Two groups of people and the House of Judah is the Jews. The ones in the nations who are not Jewish but belong to God, like you and me... are the other group... or at least PART OF the other group. To say Judah is not God's people is to declare God's own words invalid.

Israel is a country with a government governed by secular policies and Athiest Jews. 83% of jews believing in God doesn’t make Israel, a secular state, the authentic kingdom of God on Earth.

I didn't say it did... but it doesn't make them atheist either. Such a blanket and unrealistic statement made by somebody who is generally better with their methodology is disheartening. I sense some Antisemitism here, but I will just bow out rather than explore it. I don't care to get into any demeaning of the Jewish people. They are special to God, to the bible, and thus to me and I will not be a party to them being maligned by blanket statements that do NOT represent the majority of the Jewish people. You need to repent of this!

 

[parousia70]

Why is there the insertion of the requirement that the Jews have to know their individual tribal affiliation? The only one who needs to know is the one who gathered them together again. I'm certain He knows.

The Requirement is a Biblical one.
Ezra 2:62
62 These sought their listing among those who were registered by genealogy, but they were not found, therefore they were excluded from the priesthood as defiled.

 

[Barney2.0]

So we have gone from an atheist nation to not atheist but not God's chosen? As for the latter, you need to read prophecy more. The new covenant is made with the House of Judah >>AND<< the House of Israel. Two groups of people and the House of Judah is the Jews. The ones in the nations who are not Jewish but belong to God, like you and me... are the other group... or at least PART OF the other group. To say Judah is not God's people is to declare God's own words invalid.



I didn't say it did... but it doesn't make them atheist either. Such a blanket and unrealistic statement made by somebody who is generally better with their methodology is disheartening. I sense some Antisemitism here, but I will just bow out rather than explore it. I don't care to get into any demeaning of the Jewish people. They are special to God, to the bible, and thus to me and I will not be a party to them being maligned by blanket statements that do NOT represent the majority of the Jewish people. You need to repent of this!

Unbelieving Jews are no better then any other nonbelievers and are to be treated as such. Only those who believe in Christ are special to God, Jew or Gentile. How am I an Anti Semite if I’m also a Semite. Judah exists in Christians who believe, the real Israel is within all of us.

 

[Ken Rank]

Unbelieving Jews are no better then any other nonbelievers and are to be treated as such. Only those who believe in Christ are special to God, Jew or Gentile. How am I an Anti Semite if I’m also a Semite. Judah exists in Christians who believe, the real Israel is within all of us.

Unbelieving Jews... if an Orthodox Jew follows the commandments of the one God (out of love) and lives for the day Messiah comes and ushers in a time of peace and restoration... you are seriously calling him an unbeliever? Why? Because he lacks YOUR current understanding? That is a bit prideful, isn't it? You are using YOUR understanding (your CURRENT understanding) as the standard by which you judge others who call on the same God you do?

 

[Barney2.0]

Unbelieving Jews... if an Orthodox Jew follows the commandments of the one God (out of love) and lives for the day Messiah comes and ushers in a time of peace and restoration... you are seriously calling him an unbeliever? Why? Because he lacks YOUR current understanding? That is a bit prideful, isn't it? You are using YOUR understanding (your CURRENT understanding) as the standard by which you judge others who call on the same God you do?

Does the common day “Orthodox Jew” believe in Jesus as Messiah and the son of God who redeemed us on the cross? This is the standards God set upon us to attain salvation. It’s pridful to say the you follow the commandments while disbelieving in Jesus as mainstream Jews do.

 

[SeventyOne]

The Requirement is a Biblical one.
Ezra 2:63
62 These sought their listing among those who were registered by genealogy, but they were not found, therefore they were excluded from the priesthood as defiled.

Did you read that verse in context? One, it has nothing to do with the OP. Two, these were people trying to find their place on the registered roles to prove they belonged to Israel, but they weren't on the list. The very existence of that list contradicts your point in itself.

 

[Invalidusername]

Unbelieving Jews... if an Orthodox Jew follows the commandments of the one God (out of love) and lives for the day Messiah comes and ushers in a time of peace and restoration... you are seriously calling him an unbeliever? Why? Because he lacks YOUR current understanding? That is a bit prideful, isn't it? You are using YOUR understanding (your CURRENT understanding) as the standard by which you judge others who call on the same God you do?

There's plenty of verses in the Bible condemning unbelieving Jews.

 

[Ken Rank]

Does the common day “Orthodox Jew” believe in Jesus as Messiah and the son of God who redeemed us on the cross? This is the standards God set upon us to attain salvation. It’s pridful to say the you follow the commandments while disbelieving in Jesus as mainstream Jews do.

When does John 3:16 place a time limit? Hmm.... seriously... where does it say that whosoever believes in me RIGHT THIS SECOND will have life? It doesn't... but without realizing it, you are adding a clock to John 3:16. Go read Zech. 12:10... who are the inhabitants of the city of David? And what are they seeing? Please... go do that and then come back and read the next paragraph but don't read it first.

When Judah came out of Babylon, Ezra and Nehemiah went to the Temple and found a Torah scroll. They opened it, began to read and learned that they should have had their sukkah's up and should have been celebrating Sukkot (tabernacles). Immediately they mourned... but then they wipe off their tears and built their sukkah's. Zech. 12:10 shows Yeshua standing before Jewish people, asking them to look at the marks made long ago and they mourn like they did when they learned of Sukkot after Babylon. At this future date, they will also wipe their tears and get about doing his will.

Be blessed.
Ken

 

[Barney2.0]

When does John 3:16 place a time limit? Hmm.... seriously... where does it say that whosoever believes in me RIGHT THIS SECOND will have life? It doesn't... but without realizing it, you are adding a clock to John 3:16. Go read Zech. 12:10... who are the inhabitants of the city of David? And what are they seeing? Please... go do that and then come back and read the next paragraph but don't read it first.

When Judah came out of Babylon, Ezra and Nehemiah went to the Temple and found a Torah scroll. They opened it, began to read and learned that they should have had their sukkah's up and should have been celebrating Sukkot (tabernacles). Immediately they mourned... but then they wipe off their tears and built their sukkah's. Zech. 12:10 shows Yeshua standing before Jewish people, asking them to look at the marks made long ago and they mourn like they did when they learned of Sukkot after Babylon. At this future date, they will also wipe their tears and get about doing his will.

Be blessed.
Ken

So in your opinion a Jew that does not believe in Jesus will get saved? Anyhow I’m done with this argument anyhow God bless you.

 

[Ken Rank]

So in your opinion a Jew that does not believe in Jesus will get saved? Anyhow I’m done with this argument anyhow God bless you.

Then why ask me a question? Be blessed.

 

[Barney2.0]

Then why ask me a question? Be blessed.

A parting question, something to think over, be blessed in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[Blade]

"Warning:

When those in Israel that came to Christ speak of this.. and then reading how my Father of our lord Jesus Christ is faithful. See He made a promise.. and He to this day has never broke a promise. He gathered them.. He put them back in the land HE promised them. NOT because they follow Him for they don't..but HE KEEPS HIS WORD!

As for your WARNING.. no clue what that means.. its just your own personal view. Do you know how many Jews are coming to Christ? WOW its getting greater by the DAY!..its ALL truing out as HE spoke it

 

[Ken Rank]

A parting question, something to think over, be blessed in the name of Jesus Christ.

But it is a question I have considered for a very long time. Go read Zech. 12:10 and weigh it into your understanding.

 

[dqhall]

The Jewish scholars of old recognized that the ten tribes were lost, some of them believing they don't exist anymore and won't be gathered, and some of them believing in final they will be gathered. One thing is for sure, there is no way they can be gathered today while Jesus has not returned, because until He does return, the ten tribes don't know who they are!

Israeli archaeologists discovered Jerusalem expanded during the time the Assyrian army was marching into Israel from the north. They theorized the city was growing due to refugee arrivals from the north. These may have been from the 10 regions marked as tribal regions in the Bible. The Levites did not have a specific tribal area.

Haaretz, an Israeli news periodical, reported 17 Ultra-Orthodox Jews were detained for trying to sacrifice baby goats near the Temple Mount during Passover (4-12-2017). They have not been able to re-institute the daily Temple sacrifice. I am not aware of any nation currently practicing burnt offerings.

Israel arrests 17 far-right Jews allegedly attempting to sacrifice goats on Temple Mount for Passover

 

[BABerean2]

Unbelieving Jews... if an Orthodox Jew follows the commandments of the one God (out of love) and lives for the day Messiah comes and ushers in a time of peace and restoration... you are seriously calling him an unbeliever? Why? Because he lacks YOUR current understanding? That is a bit prideful, isn't it? You are using YOUR understanding (your CURRENT understanding) as the standard by which you judge others who call on the same God you do?

You are promoting some form of "Dual Covenant" Theology.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

The most "antisemitic" thing we can do is to ignore Paul's words in Galatians 1:6-9.

.

 

[Hank77]

Israeli archaeologists discovered Jerusalem expanded during the time the Assyrian army was marching into Israel from the north. They theorized the city was growing due to refugee arrivals from the north. These may have been from the 10 regions marked as tribal regions in the Bible. The Levites did not have a specific tribal area.

Haaretz, an Israeli news periodical, reported 17 Ultra-Orthodox Jews were detained for trying to sacrifice baby goats near the Temple Mount during Passover (4-12-2017). They have not been able to re-institute the daily Temple sacrifice. I am not aware of any nation currently practicing burnt offerings.

Israel arrests 17 far-right Jews allegedly attempting to sacrifice goats on Temple Mount for Passover

I think there is a small population of Samaritans who do. I've read articles and seen a video.

 

[Devin P]

Warning:

There's a false teaching spread among the Churches today involving the return of Jews back to the holy land and modern state of Israel. One must understand how the unbelieving orthodox Jews are seeing their return, as they are deceived into believing God is re-establishing their kingdom of old again today.

Today's orthodox Jews in Jerusalem already have the materials ready to build another temple and start up the old covenant worship again. Their Sandhedrin has started up again, and they have the temple articles made, and have been drafting Levitical priests for the temple duties. All that is not some working of a few mad men. It is pointing to Bible prophecy for the end of this world.

One of their false teachings today is the supposed return of the ten lost tribes of Israel. A remnant of the ten tribes in Jeroboam's day did join with Judah and became Jews. But the majority of the ten tribes did not, but were separated from the Jews and scattered in the countries, losing their heritage as part of old Israel (see Hosea 1 & 2 which is about the ten tribes).

The Jewish scholars of old recognized that the ten tribes were lost, some of them believing they don't exist anymore and won't be gathered, and some of them believing in final they will be gathered. One thing is for sure, there is no way they can be gathered today while Jesus has not returned, because until He does return, the ten tribes don't know who they are! They were never known as Jews in history. And in Hosea 2 God showed they would lose their heritage as Israel, that He would cease their feasts, and new moons, and sabbaths. Those things certainly did not cease among the Jews simply because the Jews did not lose their heritage as part of Israel.

This thinking by the Jews of today's state of Israel being the final restoration God promised is a deception, and it's in prep for the coming false messiah to Jerusalem whom the deceived will worship in place of God.

Christ's Church is not to fall away to this deception that is upon today's Jews.

They were prophesied in Leviticus 26, and many other places that we (gentiles) would awaken to realize who we were. This would cause us to desire His Torah and His Festivals and Sabbaths again. This would become an awakening so large, unstoppable and blessed, that it would spur the Jews to jealousy, and they would then accept Jesus. After they say "blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord..." accepting Him as Messiah, then Jesus came come back. But not before the Jews accept Him.

This is happening as we speak. I'm a gentile, but have come to realize that since we will be keeping His law after Jesus returns (see Zechariah 14), and that the Romans persecution, and Jewish man-made traditions are the only reason we don't keep Torah today. I've come to this, and so have hundreds of others in my area - separate of anything other than simply reading scripture. Plus the understanding and love we all have for one another and the Creator has grown so much

 

[bjdea1]

But it is a question I have considered for a very long time. Go read Zech. 12:10 and weigh it into your understanding.

I used to believe the same as you Ken, I was a strong Israel supporter (the modern state of Israel) until I researched deeper and had some things shown to me in the bible. Ken you will be shocked when you finally see the truth.

Christians today are being HEAVILY indoctrinated to support Jews no matter what they do - something is weird about that. To ALWAYS give them a green light and overlook all their sin is strange, even God didn't do that, yet Christians today are willing to do that in a heartbeat. Even the concept of a special genetic race of people is troublesome to me, Hitler was condemned for trying to create a supreme race of blonde hair blue eyed Germans. Everyone said Hitler was evil, yet Christians today are putting Jews in a similar category of superiority, above all other people, because they are God's so called "chosen people" - they get a green light for anything because of their special jewish genetics - again something is weird about that and strikes a strangely familiar tone to what Hitler tried to do - how ironic !

Personally I think its possible the Anti-Christ might be a Jew, think about that for a while............while you're thinking also ask yourself - if Israel murdered and killed millions & millions of people would I still support them no matter what? Is there anything they could do that would make me question their actions? Then ask yourself - am I being tricked into supporting a secular nation and it's secular politicians - for THEIR benefit? Now ask yourself - do I hate muslims a lot, because they are Israels enemies? Think of how many muslims have gone to hell because so many Christians hardly witness to them because they are enemies of the Jews. In reality Jesus wants muslims saved just as much as jews, but because Christians are indoctrinated to love Jews and hate muslims, the islamic world is going to hell in huge numbers.

I used to greatly dislike people who were against Israel in the past, I used to argue as you are now - it was an offence to me personally when people attacked the Jews. I used to stand up for them too........ but honestly - please look into the matter deeper and you will find that things are not as they seem. The modern state of Israel is about 2% Christian. The other 98% are other religions and other Gods, namely Judaism. Please come to the realisation that the religion of Judaism worships ANOTHER God, I know right now you believe they follow the Torrah (Old Testament), but if you research the matter you will find out they do not follow the Torrah anymore, they follow the Babylonian Tulmuds. These are Oral traditions of men (Pharisees) passed down the Jewish generations, and they were finally written down. These are the same type of "traditions" that Jesus spoke against when He was on earth. If you look into the matter you will discover that modern Day Jews do not follow the Torrah and are actually worshipping satan, like all other false religions, and that the Bible even calls them the "Synagogue of satan" multiple times. I know this will be shocking to you - as it was to me when I first woke up to this great deception - but its true. Jews REJECT Jesus Christ as their messiah, as such they do NOT go to heaven, and they do not have God the Father as you may believe, as I used to believe.

And the reason I decided to respond to your post is I used to rely on the same Chapter Zechariah 12 - to convince myself I was right to support the Jews (modern Israel). But that all changed when I heard the correct meaning of Zechariah 12. I kinda can't be bothered spelling it all out for you, but to make a long story short, Zechariah 12 is all PAST, it is not about the future, it is a prophecy that has already been fulfilled, if you read further down that chapter you will hopefully recognise verse 10 is talking about the First coming of Christ - He was pierced and looked upon at His FIRST coming (John 19:37 directly refers to zechariah 12:12 as being fulfilled - check it out for yourself). The mourning already happened, many in Israel mourned when Christ was crucified and the families described mourning are literally families that were alive at the time of Christs crucifixion.

Maybe if I can be bothered and have time I will spell this out for you in more clear detail, but if you do care about knowing the truth then please investigate the matter more yourself also. Before I devote anymore time I need to know what sort of person you are, because I won't waste my time on people who cannot look into things, who are stubborn and stuck in their ways.

Anyway I hope you will start to investigate the matter. I have no other purpose of posting this other than to let you know that modern Israel is a deception and I'm telling you this for your own good...... I know its offensive and I know you're strongly loyal to Israel and will feel to even look into the matter is anti-semetic..... but seriously just ask yourself - can't the truth stand up on its own? If you were to look into the matter (in faith) surely the Truth will stand up on its own because Truth can do that right? It's a bit weird when some matter cannot even be looked into because its racist or something. I mean IF its the Truth then let it stand up to examination and scrutiny, rather than people telling you that you cannot even look into the matter. A lot of this "anti-semitism" stuff is just a STRATEGY to stop people even looking into such matters. For many will say to even look into such a matter is anti-semitic. I hope you see the massive problem here - how claims of "anti-semitism" are used to cover up the truth and stop you looking into the matter.

It is not anti-semitic to investigate the claims of the Jews (to see if they are telling the truth) and it is not anti-semitic to investigate this topic..... that's my point.

.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You're not completely correct (or wrong) but they are not a state of atheists. While there are atheist Jews and it is a secular nation today... the Knesset has many godly men, some are even rabbis. Yehudah Glick is one of them... and with people like him in place, I tend to look at their political system a little more favorably.

Are these Godly men you speak of in Christ?
If not,they're not Godly men.And if any of them deny Jesus as the messiah,they are anti Christ.

 

[Invalidusername]

It's a bit weird when some matter cannot even be looked into because its racist or something.

You just summarized 2018 in one sentence. Literally that's the phrase that is used to silence anyone questioning anything about any culture in today's world. "You're a racist." That shuts up people real fast.

I have to say I don't believe that Jews who are following Judaism without Jesus Christ are saved. However I think it's a bit of a stretch to call them Satan worshippers.That was an interesting point that you brought up that the anti-Christ might be a Jew. I strongly doubt that but it's an interesting premise especially since some of the most powerful and corrupt people in this world are Jews. Soros, Rothschilds, and etc. However they are the exception to the rule.