To tithe, or not to tithe. That is the question!

[MikeBigg]

I just remembered something .. the Gospel is for the poor . and when you're poor 10% of your income is actually a lot.

God also likes it when people give freely of their hearts and with cheer .

if you teach that people "have to" do something .. that's not communicating God's heart on the matter.

Indeed - teaching what people have to do is bordering on control and cult-like behaviour.

And I agree, 10% to someone who has an income that only meets 95% of their outgoings is huge. This tithing thing does affect the poor the most. That in and of itself should convince us that it is not of God.

 

[MikeBigg]

10% is very little when you do it out of obedience to Father God. He blesses us so we can give the 10% he asked for. Tithing is his idea and he backs it up with his provision. We've been doing it for many years and Father God has taken care of us miraculously many times.

Hmm. His blessings seem to pass by many who simply can't afford to put food on the table for their kids and pay for the electric. For them, 10% is huge.

So, God has taken care of you miraculously many times. I'm pleased to hear it and glad to hear the testimony.

You say it was because you gave 10%. I suggest that it may have been because you gave in faith. The 10% figure not being important.

I was a non-tithing tithist - with associated guilt for not tithing. Reading this thread has convinced me that tithing is not what is required, but giving in faith. The guilt has gone

Mike

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Indeed - teaching what people have to do is bordering on control and cult-like behaviour.

And I agree, 10% to someone who has an income that only meets 95% of their outgoings is huge. This tithing thing does affect the poor the most. That in and of itself should convince us that it is not of God.

Very true, Mike. No matter how many times the question is asked, the pro-tithing camp continues to ignore it and the unavoidable implications it presents to them:

Where did scripture EVER define the tithe as any portion of the wages from wage earners, laborers, or whatever one may choose to call the average worker who owned no producing fields, orchards, vineyards, flocks or herds?

They can't even show one verse indicating that Jesus ever tithed, and yet they plow ahead irregardless of the implications of that question. That's an earmark of bandwagon thinking. Group-think seems to have a mentally deafening effect upon otherwise reasonably thinking people.

BTW

 

[probinson]

 

[linojio]

Always tithe, regardless of the motivation of the pastor. Its the Lord who matters

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Always tithe, regardless of the motivation of the pastor. Its the Lord who matters

lol if you want to give to God give to the poor.

the motive of the pastor really affects you if you support his ministry . it becomes a part of you .

 

[GaryArnold]

10% is very little when you do it out of obedience to Father God. He blesses us so we can give the 10% he asked for.

Typical church goer mentality. Make a few statements with absolutely NO scripture to back it up.

Obedience to Father God?? Please give the scripture you are using to make this statement.

10% He asked for?? Please give the scripture you are using to make this statement.

He blesses us SO WE CAN GIVE....??? Please give the scripture you are using to make this statement.

Seems you haven't even read the scriptures on tithing at all.

Read Leviticus 27:30-33.
Read Numbers 18.
Read Deut. 14:22-29.

THEN come back and say something you can back up with scripture.

 

[blessedinChrist2]

There's no scripture where God tells us to stop tithing, or to replace tithing with something different. Tithing scripturally pre-dates and post-dates the law.

Always tithe, regardless of the motivation of the pastor. Its the Lord who matters

This is a right attitude. Father God is the one who matters first. Love of money has no place in our decisions.

 

[Frogster]

Always tithe, regardless of the motivation of the pastor. Its the Lord who matters

oh, just throw money at stuff?

 

[WordofHisPower]

Here's some scriptures on tithing, including pre-law and post law.
Tithing can be done as a form of worship.
Those who feel it's an obligation are missing the spirit of thankfulness and the spirit of giving behind tithing.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

 

[Faulty]

Here's some scriptures on tithing, including pre-law and post law.
Tithing can be done as a form of worship.
Those who feel it's an obligation are missing the spirit of thankfulness and the spirit of giving.

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

What you think you have under the Law for tithing in the first half of Hebrews 7 is taken away in the 2nd half of the same chapter.

Levi had a command of the law to take tithes. (v5)
There is a change of priesthood and a change of law. (v11-12, 15)
The former law where the tithes were commanded was cancelled due to being weak and useless. (v18-19)

I don't need a command to stop tithing, because the command of tithing came out of a law that was cancelled, thus cancelling the command.

What you need is a new command restarting it. Where is it?

 

[Frogster]

What you think you have under the Law for tithing in the first half of Hebrews 7 is taken away in the 2nd half of the same chapter.

Levi had a command of the law to take tithes. (v5)
There is a change of priesthood and a change of law. (v11-12, 15)
The former law where the tithes were commanded was cancelled due to being weak and useless. (v18-19)

I don't need a command to stop tithing, because the command of tithing came out of a law that was cancelled, thus cancelling the command.

What you need is a new command restarting it. Where is it?

 

[GaryArnold]

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20
Abram (before God changed his name to Abraham) gave a tenth of the war spoils to King Melchizedek. According to Biblical historians, it was custom during that period of time to give a tenth of the spoils to the king. God didn't want a tenth of war spoils under the law. Therefore, what Abram did has absolutely NOTHING to do with any tithe that God commanded. In fact, God commanded only a fraction of a tenth be given to the Levites from the war spoils. There is NO example of Abram or Abraham ever giving a tenth from his income.

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22
Jacob made a VOW to give a tenth. There is no scripture showing that Jacob ever did, in fact, give a tenth of anything to anyone.

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12
Both the scribes and the pharisees went beyond the law to show how superior they are. Today's tithers seem to do the same thing.

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23
Jesus said the tithe from their HERBS as they ought. Jesus did not tell the scribes and pharisees they ought to be tithing from their income as teachers and lawyers.

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9
This verses says absolutely NOTHING about tithing. And it doesn't say give the Lord all of your possessions.

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28
Hebrews says nothing about us tithe today. In fact, according to Hebrews 7:5,12,18, the tithe was DISANNULLED.

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13
Deut. 26:12 is referring to Deut. 14:28-29. In both cases, the word increase in the Hebrew translates into PRODUCE. Read the verses in context - the tithe was to be EATEN.

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30
No, not "tithe is holy." Read the verse. All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD. No other tithe has God claimed to be holy unto Him.

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5
Read the verse in context. Not every single thing they owned.

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8
No, not those doing the Lord's work. The first tithe went to the Levites who were commanded to keep up the Temple. They were the workers. The musicians. The singers. The carpenters. etc. etc.

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29
No, not the 2 year poor tithe - it was every THREE years.

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38
Be sure you understand that verse. The tithe of the tithe was the ONLY tithe that went to the storehouse, NOT the tithe from the Israelites.

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10
Look at Nehemiah 10:38 above - the tithe of the tithe (the tithe the Levites gave the priests from the tithe they received).

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.
There were over 600 commands in the OT. Show me where God or Christ told us to stop each one of them. The New Testament doesn't tell us which of the 600 plus commands stopped, but rather the New Testament tells us which ones were brought forward. Example - the substance of NINE of the Ten Commandments were brought forward into the New Testament. Since the Sabbath commandment was not brought forward, it doesn't apply to us.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Here's some scriptures on tithing, including pre-law and post law.
Tithing can be done as a form of worship.
Those who feel it's an obligation are missing the spirit of thankfulness and the spirit of giving behind tithing.

And you feel that handing that tithe over to religious church organizations is the same as giving to God?

Please show us scripture why you think this is true?

NON-LAW
*Abraham tithes (10%) on something he won. Hebrews 7:2, Genesis 14:20

Abraham tithed not one red cent from his own personal property, which was still up in northern Canaan. We today have no spoils from which to tithe, so how is it that you say we are to follow his example?

At no time in Israel's history did they ever follow Abraham's example of handing over a tenth of the spoils to the priests.

If you believe otherwise, then please demonstrate such from scripture.

*Jacob tithes (10%) of all the Lord gives him. Genesis 28:22

Nobody knows for sure that Jacob did any such thing. He promised a tithe based upon preconditions he tried to place upon the Lord. Do you think that's a positive example of how we should give? Please elaborate on the basis of what's actually stated in scripture.

*NT tithe (10%) of all that you possess. Luke 18:12

Can you show us in that parable where Jesus addressed that pharasee's bragging is a signal for us today to continue a practice of tithing from wages, which existed at no time throughout the record of scripture?

Better yet, considering Jesus was talking about a man who was obviously still under the Law, how that can possibly translate a non-existent tithe over to us today? Where did the Law ever demand tithes from the salaries of wage earners?

*NT Pharisee tithe 10% and Christ said to continue doing it. Matthew 23:23

How does Jesus telling the pharasee to continue obeying the Law have anything to do with us today? Jesus also told another man around that same timeframe to offer up burnt sacrifices. What of that?

*Honor the Lord with all your possession. Proverbs 3:9

What does that have to do with the tithe?

*NT tithing through Christ. Hebrews 6:20 and Hebrews 7:1-28

How does the measuring stick of the tithe in relation to priesthoods mean there was to be a continuance of something that never existed? At no time in the history of the Church, Israel or Judah did the Lord command a tithe from the wages of wage earners, and yet you seem to be pulling the "rabbit out of a hat" trick because I can't find anything in scripture that substantiates your interpretations.

LAW
*Lay aside a tithe of your increase for the Levite and the poor. Remove it from your house and give it. Deuteronomy 26:12-13

Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

*Tithe (10%) is holy to the Lord. Leviticus 27:30

Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

*The Israelites brought a tithe of everything, including produce. 2 Chronicles 31:5

Only those who possessed producing lands, orchards, vineyards, flocks and herds. Again, this had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

1st tithe to support those doing the Lord's work. Leviticus 27:30, Numbers 8

Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

2nd tithe to take family on yearly feast in God's presence. Deuteronomy 14:22-27

Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

3rd tithe is the 2 year poor tithe to look after the poor. Deuteronomy 14:28-29

Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

Tithe of the produce of the land to the Levites. Nehemiah 10:37

Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

Tithe of the tithe to the storehouse by the Levites. Nehemiah 10:38

Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

Malachi tithe into the storehouse. Malachi 3:10

Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.

There's no command from God or Christ to stop tithing.

There's also no command from God to change His definition of the tithe to include the wages of wage earners.

Trying to prove something from a negative almost always leads to error.

BTW

 

[Frogster]

And you feel that handing that tithe over to religious church organizations is the same as giving to God?

Please show us scripture why you think this is true?



Abraham tithed not one red cent from his own personal property, which was still up in northern Canaan. We today have no spoils from which to tithe, so how is it that you say we are to follow his example?

At no time in Israel's history did they ever follow Abraham's example of handing over a tenth of the spoils to the priests.

If you believe otherwise, then please demonstrate such from scripture.



Nobody knows for sure that Jacob did any such thing. He promised a tithe based upon preconditions he tried to place upon the Lord. Do you think that's a positive example of how we should give? Please elaborate on the basis of what's actually stated in scripture.



Can you show us in that parable where Jesus addressed that pharasee's bragging is a signal for us today to continue a practice of tithing from wages, which existed at no time throughout the record of scripture?

Better yet, considering Jesus was talking about a man who was obviously still under the Law, how that can possibly translate a non-existent tithe over to us today? Where did the Law ever demand tithes from the salaries of wage earners?



How does Jesus telling the pharasee to continue obeying the Law have anything to do with us today? Jesus also told another man around that same timeframe to offer up burnt sacrifices. What of that?



What does that have to do with the tithe?



How does the measuring stick of the tithe in relation to priesthoods mean there was to be a continuance of something that never existed? At no time in the history of the Church, Israel or Judah did the Lord command a tithe from the wages of wage earners, and yet you seem to be pulling the "rabbit out of a hat" trick because I can't find anything in scripture that substantiates your interpretations.



Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



Only those who possessed producing lands, orchards, vineyards, flocks and herds. Again, this had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



Which had nothing to do with the wages of wage earners.



There's also no command from God to change His definition of the tithe to include the wages of wage earners.

Trying to prove something from a negative almost always leads to error.

BTW

u da man!

 

[BeforeThereWas]

u da man!

 

[WordofHisPower]

Tithing, alms, offerings pre-date the law. They've always gone to the poor, to worship the Lord, and to support the work of the Lord.

There's no other type of giving in the NT or OT.

1 Corinthians 16 and 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 are a special one time offering to the poor collected by Paul for the poor, initiated by Paul, not commanded by God. 1 Corinthians 8:8

Paul told them to decide what they wanted to give to the poor, which has always been the case with offerings and alms. It doesn't nullify tithes though.

The scriptures speak for themselves to those who want to tithe, give offerings and alms.

Those who don't want to tithe, give offerings and alms will find a reason to excuse scripture away.

 

[GaryArnold]

The scriptures speak for themselves to those who want to tithe, give offerings and alms.

Those who don't want to tithe, give offerings and alms will find a reason to excuse scripture away.

No one follows the scriptures when they tithe. You won't find any examples in the scriptures where wage earners tithed.

Those of us against the false teaching of tithing are NOT against generous giving.

 

[WordofHisPower]

No one follows the scriptures when they tithe. You won't find any examples in the scriptures where wage earners tithed.

Those of us against the false teaching of tithing are NOT against generous giving.

In the OT everyone but the levites were allotted land by the Lord, which they used to raise crops or livestock, just as today God has given almost everyone has some kind of income.

In the OT widows, orphans, and foreigners had no allotment, and today we have homeless jobless people.

Scripture on tithing can't be considered false teaching.

 

[GaryArnold]

In the OT everyone but the levites were allotted land by the Lord, which they used to raise crops or livestock, just as today God has given almost everyone has some kind of income.

In the OT widows, orphans, and foreigners had no allotment, and today we have homeless jobless people.

Scripture on tithing can't be considered false teaching.

You are not correct. ONLY the 11 tribes of Israel inherited the promised land. The tribe of Levi inherited the tithe. ONLY the 12 tribes of Israel had anything to do with the tithe.

Those that INHERITED the promised land inherited the land and everything on it, EXCEPT God reserved, for Himself, a tenth of the crops and every tenth animal in herds and flocks (Leviticus 27:30-33). That tenth belonged to God, and God gave that tenth to the Levites. The farmers made their income from selling and/or bartering their livestock and crops. There was nothing tithed from that income.

Those who inherited the promised land did NOT tithe from their income. They merely TRANSPORTED God's tenth to the Levites.

Scripture on tithing is NOT considered false teaching. Teaching that one should tithe from their income is false teaching. That goes against the scriptures, and totally changes what God called His tithe.

The tithe came from God's increase, NOT man's income.

Many pastors are well aware of this truth but continue to lie to their congregation. One even told me he can't let his congregation know that tithing ended at the cross because they won't give enough to keep the church doors open. Flat out liar and admitted it to me.