To Cease or to Continue, that is the Question

[Saint Steven]

I think the misunderstanding is the idea that "infant" churches use the same nourishment as adult churches. The NT letters are all about infant formula and diaper changing. We shouldn't be reading them as a guidebook for adults.

Wouldn't that mean that the letter to the Romans was baby food? Seems pretty "meaty" to me. - lol

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

The instruction for interpretation of tongues only applies to #3 below.

Five Different Kinds of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

have scripture for all those ?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Cessationism actually prevents miracles. Even for Jesus.
That should tell us something.

Matthew 13:57-58
And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”
58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

and others were healed with no faith 1/10 lepers healed followed Jesus.

next.................

Jesus said an EVIL and ADULTERESS generation seeks miracles and the only one He would give them was the sign of Jonah,

next................

 

[Aussie Pete]

I think the misunderstanding is the idea that "infant" churches use the same nourishment as adult churches. The NT letters are all about infant formula and diaper changing. We shouldn't be reading them as a guidebook for adults.

If you consider the modern church to be mature, then I feel sorry for you. You have no idea what the real church should be like.

 

[Francis Drake]

Of course Abraham was not like the Jews, but then again he was a pagan before God called him. Jews did not exist until after him.

But Are you saying you don’t agree with what Paul stated in 1 cor 1:22 as well as what went down in exodus 4?

Of course I agree with what Paul stated in 1Cor1v22, But that doesn't help your argument one iota.

But as can be seen in your scripture, Paul is not just attacking Jews, but Gentiles also, both for their unbelief.
22For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Do you agree with the list of faithful Jews/Israelites in Hebrews11?

 

[JohnT]

I have two pages that may interest you, the first list a handful of miracles God has performed in my life...

Robert, I have no doubt that the incidents chronicled happened. However, the funny thing about anecdotes such as you wrote them is that they are not verifiable, except for 10/10/2012. The others do do not contain dates, nor are they sufficiently detailed so that someone can contact the participants.

All that being said, they are a nice testimony.

 

[Strong in Him]

The NT letters are all about infant formula and diaper changing.

Are you kidding?
Is Romans 8, which is all about life in the Spirit, being sons of God and heirs with Christ, tells us that the Spirit prays for us and ending in those astounding verses that nothing in the whole of creation can separate us from God's love, "infant formula and diaper changing"?
Or Romans 7 where Paul talks about the human condition; not doing what you want to do but doing what you don't want to do?
What about Ephesians 2 - by grace you have been saved, and you are God's workmanship?
Or Ephesians 6 - spiritual warfare?
Or 1 Corinthians 15 - explaining the new resurrection body?
Or any passage that speaks of the second coming?

All these are just "formula" to you?

We shouldn't be reading them as a guidebook for adults.

Well you'll miss out on a lot then.
Better not read 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 - love is patient, kind does not envy, does not boast, is eternal.
Ephesians 1:3-14 tells us of all the many blessings that we have in Christ - EVERY blessing, in fact. But that's not for adults.
2 Corinthians 3:18 says that the Spirit is transforming us into the likeness of Jesus himself - but clearly that's only for children.
Galatians 5 describes the fruit of the Holy Spirit - maybe adults are above all that and don't need him?
Ephesians 4:17-31 tells us to put off our old selves, be made new and live as people of the light - but maybe adults don't need to do this.

And so on.

Jesus said that we must accept the Kingdom of heaven like a child; that doesn't mean that all the teachings of the Apostles are childish.

 

[JohnT]

Vesre 1 Tim 5:23 is clearly been added by some one at a latter date, it has no context.

There is no evidence in the Apparatus of the Nestle Aland 28 to support that sort of statement. Here is the citation:

23 στόμαχον WH Treg NA28 ] + σου RP

Holmes, M. W. (2010). Apparatus for the Greek New Testament: SBL Edition (1 Ti 5:23). Logos Bible Software.

The only change is the word σου, which is a pronoun meaning "your"

 

[JohnT]

You have no idea what the real church should be like.

Do many other drive-bys?

 

[JohnT]

SkyWriting said: ↑
I have been clear that God communicates and never with words.

Having worked as a case manager for seriously mentally ill persons, and having been an evangelical pastor, I can tell you plainly that your opinions fall far short of my experiences.

Delusions are not the same as a message from God. That is because delusions do not exist, and God does. Every successful Evangelical pastor has experiences where God talks to him. It can happen in sermon preparation or in sermon delivery when you know that you are saying something that is not on your script, but you know that someone in the congregation needs to hear it, so you continue.

Yeah, it is a weird experience, but by definition, hearing from God (using English words in my case or a vision) is an extraordinary event.

You see many times in the Old Testament that God talks to His servants, the prophets in their native languages. He does the same for his modern day servants, pastors who are gifts to God's church to further the Kingdom of Jesus while here on Earth.

Now that we have your opinions, could you please provide evidence for your beliefs that come from the Bible, and are removed from your scoffing nay-saying?

 

[Francis Drake]

The instruction for interpretation of tongues only applies to #3 below.

Five Different Kinds of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

The above has always been my experience since the 70s.
I would add the following if that's ok with you.
6) Spiritual warfare, -addressing the powers of darkness.

The following is a description of what happened on one occasion. It is not meant to be prescriptive. In all such situations we need to be led by the Holy Spirit not an instruction book.

Many years ago my wife and I were asked to urgently pray for someone we didn't know who was in crisis. He was in a distant town, so this was long distant warfare.

As we started to pray, I discerned a demonic stronghold of death over the situation. I started in English to rebuke the demon, and then at some stage reverting to tongues. My wife likewise.

I was standing in the middle of our living room, facing out of the window with my eyes closed, my wife was on the sofa across the room also praying. I was aggressively addressing the spirit of death in tongues. And as I did so, the power of the Holy Spirit came on me, and I was transported in the Spirit to a completely different place.

I found myself in an incredibly arid environment. It reminded me of a dusty Mexican village with flat roofed hovels either side of a dusty street. The sun and sky were burning red.

It was a bit like a gun fight scenario because at the other end of the street was this evil black amorphous figure facing me. I was advancing up the street towards him and with each sentence in tongues I was picking a rock up off the street (bending down to pick them from the living room floor) and hurling it at the figure.
He in turn was retreating away in fear, ducking and diving as he was struck by these rocks.

Suddenly I heard my wife's voice, intruding through my natural ears, "We stone you out of the town....!"

Jolted out of the vision, I asked her why she said that. It turned out that, although she had no idea what was going on with me, while speaking in tongues she had also found herself transported into the same vision, stoning the demon with her words!

 

[Francis Drake]

Jesus said an EVIL and ADULTERESS generation seeks miracles and the only one He would give them was the sign of Jonah,

Jesus's words were directed at one group of people only here, the Pharisees.
The whole chapter is filled with signs and wonders of healing and deliverance, but the Pharisees still hated him and wanted to kill him. So Jesus wasn't going to oblige them with a song and dance routine, when they had no intention of believing him anyway!

But for the common people, Jesus remained abundant with signs wonders and miracles, all because he loved them and came to set the captives free

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Jesus's words were directed at one group of people only here, the Pharisees.
The whole chapter is filled with signs and wonders of healing and deliverance, but the Pharisees still hated him and wanted to kill him. So Jesus wasn't going to oblige them with a song and dance routine, when they had no intention of believing him anyway!

But for the common people, Jesus remained abundant with signs wonders and miracles, all because he loved them and came to set the captives free

Did Jesus heal unbelievers or believers ?

 

[Saint Steven]

The above has always been my experience since the 70s.
I would add the following if that's ok with you.
6) Spiritual warfare, -addressing the powers of darkness.

Yes. That would be a good addition. And you are not the first person to suggest it.
Although I guess I was thinking this would be covered under #2.
But your testimony shows that the prayer has a different direction to it.
Addressing the enemy rather than addressing God.

Saint Steven said: ↑
The instruction for interpretation of tongues only applies to #3 below.

Five Different Kinds of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Yes. That would be a good addition. And you are not the first person to suggest it.
Although I guess I was thinking this would be covered under #2.
But your testimony shows that the prayer has a different direction to it.
Addressing the enemy rather than addressing God.

Saint Steven said: ↑
The instruction for interpretation of tongues only applies to #3 below.

Five Different Kinds of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

Got Scripture ?

 

[Aussie Pete]

Do many other drive-bys?

What is a drive by?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

What is a drive by?

its usually a 1 line statement void of any Scripture and just a persons opinion.

 

[Saint Steven]

Got Scripture ?

Which one do you question? Are you claiming that none of them are biblical?
Since you are a Cessationist, you will reject anything I provide. I need better wages than that for the effort.

Five Different Kinds of Tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)

 

[Saint Steven]

its usually a 1 line statement void of any Scripture and just a persons opinion.

Are your posts a good example?

 

[JohnT]

What is a drive by?

It was a reference to a drive-by shooting. People in an auto shoot automatic weapons at people on the street.

Usually one urban gang does it to another urban gang