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To all athiests out there: bring it on

Smilin

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Originally posted by JesusServant
Oh, just for some forum help... when you quote someone and begin to discuss, it looks a whole lot like you're replying to them...

To avoid any future appearances of 'personal attacks', I'll word my 'added comments' to prevent any further misunderstandings.

My purpose here is not to attack JS, but to debate, enjoy fellowship with both believers and non-believers and to search for the truth.

Respectfully,

Smilin...

p.s.... I see everyone was up half the night with this thread..lol...I'm sorry I had to leave in the middle of it.  As soon as I'm finished with my assigned tasks here, I'll be back to catch up with everyone.

 
 
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lithium.

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Originally posted by JohnR7
I have done the math on this one, using the data given by NASA. The spindown rate of the earth translates to  about 1.5 seconds every 100,000 years. So if you go back about 4.3 billion years, the earth was spinning fast enough that the first day was about 1.5/100,000 of second long. The second day was 3/100,000 second long. By the time the earth got up to where there was 5 to 6 hours of daylight, then Science tells us that the trees and grass began to grow. I have done enough gardening, with putting plants in shade and in the sun. So I know most plants require 5 to 6 hours a day of direct sunlight per day.

The earth spins at 0.5 km/sec.

The earth revolves around the sun at 30 km/sec

The solar system revolves around the milky way at 250 km/sec

The milky way moves though the galexy at 300 km/sec

What is the data nasa gives I want to do the math for my self? Give me the site where the data is.
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by Nathan Poe
And refuting Hovind's arguments with logic and scientific evidence would be like knocking down a sand castle with a H-bomb. 

Why don't you prove that God did not create the universe. Then you could collect the $250,000 reward.
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by lucaspa


The oldest trees are Bristlecone pines that are over 6,000 years old.  

Actually, the oldest one was just a little bit under 6,000 years about 5.700 years. A over zealous collage student broke his core drill and cut the oldest living tree down and killed it.
 
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lithium.

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Originally posted by JohnR7
Actually, the oldest one was just a little bit under 6,000 years about 5.700 years. A over zealous collage student broke his core drill and cut the oldest living tree down and killed it.

Where did you get this info?
 
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Smilin

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Originally posted by seesaw
Just to add... It's sad how crackpot stuff gets believed sometimes more than the real stuff. :(

i.e.

David Koresh, the Branch Dividian leader...we know their fate

Jim Jones, the fate of his followers in Guiana

The Heaven's Gate cult...and their mass suicide at the appearance of the Hale-Bopp comet to join 'the spaceship that was following it'

"Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity". The leader is the Reverend Sun Myung Moon and he feels that he the second Jesus
 
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Smilin

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Originally posted by Nathan Poe
But would God use a teenager who quotes Hovind? God knows better than that...

I think it's the other way around...Hovind and false teachers such as hisself typically use young, unexperienced, uneducated, gullable youngsters to spread their false teachings.
 
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Smilin

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Originally posted by tacoman528
To Humanista,
first of all, sorry to everyone for the delay in explanations. I have had a ton of schoolwork and I didn't think there would be so many questions (not that I can't answer all of them) so it may be awhile before I get to all of them, luckily, many of my christian brothers and sisters will be helping me. Trust me, I'm doing the best I can.

answer to your question: not all the water came from the canopy. look in Genesis 7:11. The most of the water didn't come from the sky

Which is it taco man?  First you stated the flood water came from an atmospheric 'canopy' MILLIONS of gallons you claimed, now you're crawfishing on us.  WHERE did the water come from EXACTLY and what proof can you provide?

(Check my response to your 'canopy' scenario.  It's physically impossible for the atmosphere to hold as much water as you originally claimed)
 
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lithium.

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Originally posted by Smilin
i.e.

David Koresh, the Branch Dividian leader...we know their fate

Jim Jones, the fate of his followers in Guiana

The Heaven's Gate cult...and their mass suicide at the appearance of the Hale-Bopp comet to join 'the spaceship that was following it'

"Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity". The leader is the Reverend Sun Myung Moon and he feels that he the second Jesus

I really wish I had the power to wipe our all crackpot stuff in the world. :)
 
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Nathan Poe

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Originally posted by JohnR7
Why don't you prove that God did not create the universe. Then you could collect the $250,000 reward.

1. It's scientifically impossible to "disprove" the existence of God, or of anything else. We couldn't "disprove" the existence of unicorns, for example, because we might discover one tomorrow.
Real scientists know this, and so does Hovind. He's gone to great lengths to carefully load his questioning to the degree that nobody will ever prove evolution to his satisfaction, and collect the "reward."

2. Do you honestly believe for one second that, given Hovind's history of deception, he would cough up the money? Don't hold your breath.
 
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lithium.

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2. Do you honestly believe for one second that, given Hovind's history of deception, he would cough up the money? Don't hold your breath.

Yeah really, I don't believe for a second that he would ever pay up.
 
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Smilin

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Originally posted by tacoman528
Continuation of the previous list of why the earth is about 6000 years old...

The Earth is spinning at about 1000 miles per hour and it is slowing down. Very slowly. so slowly that 6000 years ago, it wouldn't be spinning too much faster. However, at the time YOU say that dinosaurs would be walking the earth: about 200 million years ago. The centrifucal force of the spinning earth would cause those dinosaurs to fly off the earth. And if it wasn't spinning that fast to begin with, anything that could make it spin that fast would have to be so big or so fast that when impact was made, life would be eliminated from the earth.
 

Calculations please?  What was the spin rate of the earth 200 million years ago, then show the centrifugal force associated with that angular momentum...and PROVE dinosaurs would be slung into outer space.


Originally posted by tacoman528

The earth is moving away from the sun. Extremely slowly. So slow that 6000 years ago, once again, no big deal. millions of years ago is, once again, a problem.

The earth's orbit is elliptical, you forgot to mention that.  You do know what an ellipse is don't you?  No big deal.  You're argument fails.

Originally posted by tacoman528
Rarely are complete skeletons intact

Rarely are elephant, gazelle, antelope, water buffaloe, etc skeletons found (even partially) on the plains of Africa.  This isn't proof of a flood.  This is demonstration of the role of predators/scavengers in our ecosystem.  Your argument fails.


Originally posted by tacoman528

trees running through supposed millions of years worth of rock layer

Follow me to the lakeshores, and I'll show you modern trees growing through the sedimentary layers.  This only proves that tree roots split rock layers in search of water deposits.  The rock layers formed first.  The trees grew later and their roots split the rock layers.

Originally posted by tacoman528
mass amounts of marine fossils in specific areas

As in my region of the country, the predominant fossils are of the ancient ocean type.  This along with the geological evidence shows this area was previously a prehistoric ocean.  Before you claim a global flood caused the ocean, you'll have to explain the numerous sedimentary layers in the Cumberland Mountains (each containing completely different species of marine life)  I doubt it is possible for a global flood to selectively bury certain species in certain layers.  Your example fails. 

Originally posted by tacoman528
dead clams on top of mount everest

Mount Everest and the Himilayas were lifted out of the ocean (and is still rising) by the northward movement of the Indian subcontinent and its resultant subduction under the Asian continent during the past few tens of million of years.)  Not just dead clams have been found on top of Mount Everst.  You forgot to point that one out.

Originally posted by tacoman528
Many cultures have their own version of the flood story very similar to the bible's flood story.

Many cultures have exotic creation stories as well.  What does this prove.  Nothing.

Originally posted by tacoman528
huge amounts of closed clam fossils (most clams open when they die)

Wrong again.  Again, walk the shorelines here with me and I'll show you the MAJORITY of dead clams are indeed closed. 

Originally posted by tacoman528
Reasons for the flood being 4000 years ago:

The oldes tree is 4000 years old

The Nile, Amazon, and Ganges rivers all 4000 years old

The Sahara Desert is 4000 years old

Niagra Falls is 4000 years old


By the way, human bones are found amongst dinosaur bones all the time. They are just ignored by most science textbooks (because they think that humans lived only 1million years ago and that dinosaurs died off much earlier) There are even dinosaurs mentioned in the bible. Check out Job 38
They weren't called dinosaurs by the way, they were called Behemoths and Leviathans.

1. Source for the oldest tree please.

2. Concerning the rivers you mentioned, rivers are constantly being formed and disappearing over time.  Check a topographical map of the Cumberland Plateau.  You'll notice an ancient trench which was once a mighty river.  The geological evidence, along with the numerous caves in the regions and their formations date back over 60 million years.

3.  New findings show the Sahara was once indeed an ocean.

4.  Please list the sites of dinosaur and human bones

5.  Please show where the 'Behemoth and Leviathan' have been found..and EXACTLY what kind of animal were they?  If I remember correctly, most who use these two examples can't even agree upon what they were, much less show any physical evidence to support their claims.

Hopefully, you'll study biology, chemistry, geology, physics, and ancient world history in your years to come.  Sadly, you've been manipulated by those who don't seek or desire truth, but for reasons I've yet to understand, grossly misrepresent what science has shown to date. 
 
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Smilin

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Originally posted by Pete Harcoff
Here's another question about the Flood and animals from Noah's Ark.

How did such a limited selection of animals (only 2 of every "kind") overcome the problems of inbreeding (not to mention other all the other detrimental factors, environmental and otherwise) to produce the healthy, diverse populations we observe today?

and what about all that 'poop'...did Noah invent the 'pooper scooper'?????... and how in the world did they keep everything sanitary?

On a serious note, think about this:  To bring any credibility to the Animals on the ark story, evolution HAS to be considered.  It would have been physically IMPOSSIBLE to house all species on earth today, much less all those that have become extinct.

As far as inbreeding, I'll have to reasearch some facts before making statements.  I'm not sure how many species could/can sucessfully inbreed with each other.
 
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Smilin

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Originally posted by JohnR7
Actually, the oldest one was just a little bit under 6,000 years about 5.700 years. A over zealous collage student broke his core drill and cut the oldest living tree down and killed it.

Where was the tree located and a source please.  I'm interested in your claims.
 
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