Tithing/Speaking in Tongues

[cougan]

Andrew do you really expect people to believe everything that they read. A lot of strange things happen to people in regards to their health. It doesnt matter if they are a christian or antheist. The human body is a marvelous creation and is capable of repairing itself in way that baffel the doctors. The doctors will tell someone they only have a few weeks to live and then low and behold their wrong the person lives another 10 years. You are going to have to do better than just mere words in a book or a testimony by someone I dont know or can verify. It interesting you say that their are videos of people being healed and raised from the dead. Did you see any of these videos? Was the people being healed have something that visual obivious like a withered hand becoming whole? What did the do to prove that the person in the video was actually dead? Did the cram a sharp needle into his leg perhaps. I knew a guy that went to tent meeting where they were supposedly going to raise this man from the dead. Well my friend made his way up to where the dead man was and jabbed him in the leg with a needle. Guess what! The man was brought back to life with the jab of that needle. I read the testomonies on your website and most of things claimed there are not really biblcal miracles. I thought about calling your preacher until I seen that you live in Singapore. I am not a rich man that would be a internation phone call for me. I am very serious when I say that I will start preaching miracles tommorrow if you only show me a real bibical miracle. Just provide me with a video that shows something visual that cannot be denied.

Oh just as a side note I enjoyed the website design it has a nice look to it. Of course I dont agree with the words there but it is a nice design.

 

[cougan]

Andrew I just explored your website a little bit more and discovered that you have video camars in your church. Surely you have a video of someone being healed in your church as you have these camars running during your services.

 

[9-iron]

1 Corinthians 14:4  "He who speaks in tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church"

 

Franklin, I told you I would give you the last word, I am still waiting for you to answer the my reply........




 

Cougan, As far as proof, there is a man in our community who was crippled and was healed, in fact was healed the day after the doctors said he would be disabled for life...No story, no testimony, JUST HEALED instantly...his leg was straightened out instantly...Walked from business to business to show everybody..Everyone was praying for him, as he is a well known man in the community...everyone from Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ, Assembly of God, Everyone.......

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by 9-iron
1 Corinthians 14:4  "He who speaks in tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church"  
Franklin, I told you I would give you the last word, I am still waiting for you to answer the my reply........ 

9,  I believe I gave you an explanation on this, just look at what I posted in post #53!  You will see that Paul is in so many words  mocking those that spoke in unknown languages (tongues). He is using sarcasim or satire to make his point and I'm sure he was doing it in a loving Christian way.  You need to look closer at the scripture to see what I am referring to.  It's fine and dandy to have your own beliefs if it makes you feel good and tingely all over but if it's not biblical you need to make a decision sometime soon to forsake your un-biblical beliefs and adopt true biblical beliefs instead.  The choice is yours.  I had to do it on many different issues within my walk with the Lord no matter how painful it was and no matter how many of my fellow Christian brothers got offended by my stand on biblical principles.  I think you have to try to understand that tongues means languages and it was used for a specific purpose for a limited time during the first century.  It was not a sign for believers, it was for un-believers, it's in the word, look it up for yourself! I would recommend for you to read three chapters in 1Cor, 12, 13, and 14, read them over a few times like I did many years ago when I first started questioning why so many believers today abuse the spiritual gifts.  I was a very new Christian when the Lord revealed His truths about the spiritual gifts in these three chapters of 1Cor..... I think you'll be amazed at what the Lord will reveal to you.  I'm not in any way looking to argue with you on this issue and would welcome more discussion with you.  I don't claim to have all the answers and I am far from claiming to be a bible scholar because IMHO I feel like I am still learning new truths as every day passes by and I get very exited when these new truths are revealed to me.

Peace in the name of our Lord Jesus,

Franklin

 

[LouisBooth]

"He is using sarcasim or satire to make his point and I'm sure he was doing it in a loving Christian way. "

really? Paul seems to say it matter of factly..

 

[Andrew]

cougan,
"Andrew do you really expect people to believe everything that they read."
that's true. but you dont write off volumes of testimonies, and tons of books do you. of cse we are all expected to read and judge, but you dont judge everything as false do you?

"You are going to have to do better than just mere words in a book or a testimony by someone I dont know or can verify."

In the first place, why do you give so little value to testimonies. Its one thing to spin a tall story, but its another thing when a believer glorifies God with their testimony. And I did give you my church's website, where I said we have doctor's reports (before and after), where doctors are baffled themselves. I told you you cld call up the pastor to verify and interview those people, their doctors, see the reports, x-rays etc. I'm sure if you are sincere, the leaders will be more than willing to help you. So the ball is in your court.

quote:"What did the do to prove that the person in the video was actually dead?"

Again I say there are medical reports, a death certificate. the guy was in the morgue for 3 days. again, you can call up Reihardt Bonke ministries, maybe go visit them, ask the evangelist and leaders if they are all lying, etc, whatever till you are satisfied. Why dont you at least watch the video first, b4 you make a judgement ? Isnt that being more objective? wld it hurt?

"Surely you have a video of someone being healed in your church as you have these camars running during your services."
We have 1,200 ppl in the congregation. U cant expect the camera man to be focused on each individual thruout the service to "catch" a miracle in action can you? also, our healings take place IN the congregation. ie the Holy spirit moves during an annointing for healing and various ppl in the congregation are healed. This does not happen every Sun. And we dont line ppl up and lay hands one by one where the camera can focus on one person at the time. It's just not practical. But My pastor once said that he pulled an old lady out of a wheelchair. I dont know if that was caught on tape. Why dont you e-mail them and ask for a clip?

Again, we have many last stage cancer healings. These all have medical reports from reputable doctors/surgeons. You can check these too. What about the old lady with a stroke you read about. An old lady bored with life wanting fame for herself? Again, I'm sure there are medical reports of her stroke, hospital stay, etc.

If you cant beleive the testimonies of your fellow bros and sisters in Christ, at least check out the doc's reports b4 you write everything off as fake.

" I thought about calling your preacher until I seen that you live in Singapore. I am not a rich man that would be a internation phone call for me."

There's always e-mail and letters if you are serious. Moreover, you can print out the e-mail, keep the signed letters as proof in writing that's admissible in court.

finally, what about 9-iron's testimony? He knows this man, his community knows this man. There are also others in this forum who have experienced healing whether for themselves or of a loves ones, so are all these ppl also lying or talking nonsense.

 

[Andrew]

franklin,
" I guess these days when someone points out_biblical truths of the_scripture that has nothing to do with traditionalism people become very skeptical and afraid to make the necessary changes in their views because it might be to painful for them to accept, especially when the Biblical evidence is presented right before their very eyes. "

So you assume that all those Christians who speak in tongues and have seen the gifts of the Holy Spirit in manifestation dont study their Bibles? And that you and Cougan have and have the right answers? I see.

quote: " I would say that maybe you need to take your group out to some of the hospitals in your area and start healing all the sick people that are lying in their beds."
The sick have left the hospital becos someone from our church went there to lay hands. Some were in ICU and given little or no chance to live. I wish we cld do more more of the time. But it's up to the Holy Spirit. We dont own the power and switch it on and off as we will. Our church may have experienced many healings, but we are no where near the NT church yet. But at least we're on the right track.

quote: "Is your church following these rules of the scripture?"
Yes we are, and thank u for your concerns.

"It sounds like to me that you need to carfully read_and ponder 1Cor12, 13, 14 for further study to see what Paul is really teaching about spiritual gifts and how all this relates_for us today."
Yes I have. Yes we have. Yes millions of Chrisitans who experience these things (not just read abt it as history) have.

I'm sorry if you feel offended by terms. But I'm trying to save on typing energy. Preterist are people who believe every prophecy in the Bible is already fulfilled. eg the 2nd Coming of Christ took place in AD70.
Cessationist are basically Christians who believe the gifts of the HS died out with the apostles. see how much typing i had to do?

 

[LewisWildermuth]

My personal view on tithing and tounges is this:

If God moves you to do it, so be it.
If God does not move you to do it, don't sweat it.

 

[allieisme]

I've wrote this in many other threads on speaking in tongues, my opinion, I think it is one of the greatest gifts ever!
For those of you who do speak in tongues how do you do it, and what brought it on.
I would love the gift, and I'm not sure if it is just goin to happen one day, or if I need to start praying out loud, or what to do, if anything.
Any insight would be great!
allie

 

[cougan]

Andrew I am going to follow up on your claims and email your pastor for this evidence. 9-Iron please provide for me the phone number to the church of Christ that you say has witnessed this mans healing.

God Bless,
Cougan

 

[9-iron]

Okay I will send via Private Message!!!!!!!! but I am intrigued that you only asked for Church of Christ?????, What about the Baptist, Methodist, Assembly of God, Presbyterian, etc....or what about some people who don't even know God that were powerfully impacted by this man's healing. What about the lost people who were affected by this man's testimony. What about many others in the community who were affected by this man's healing??????

 

[franklin]

  Originally posted by allieisme
I've wrote this in many other threads on speaking in tongues, my opinion, I think it is one of the greatest gifts ever! .

Hi allie, Paul made it clear that tongues (languages) was the least important of all the gifts and that love is the greatest of all the gifts.  Read 1Cor12, 13, 14 for further insight....  Paul never said that tongues (languages) was the greatest of the gifts. 

But now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.  (1Cor 13:13)

   
For those of you who do speak in tongues how do you do it, and what brought it on.[/B]

I speak in the English tongue and I just open my mouth and the words just automatically come out.

 I would love the gift.... [/B]

 
We all have the gift, like I just stated, just open your mouth and start speaking in whatever language you understand.   

   and I'm not sure if it is just goin to happen one day, [/B]

It is evident that you already speak in the english tongue, are you bilingual or do you speak in multiple languages by any chance? 

   or if I need to start praying out loud, or what to do, if anything. [/B]

Do you ever pray in a prayer group outloud in English?  If you start praying in another language that everyone else doesn't understand then you must have an interpreter present otherwise remain silent as stated by Paul in 1Cor14:27,28:

If any man speak in an unknown tongue (unknown language), let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.


 

 

 

[9-iron]

Cougan wins the call out on the Church of Christ....I could not get the Church of Christ pastor to confirm this man's healing...It seems they will pray for the "health" of sick individuals, but will not attest to miraculous healings. It seems they pray for the doctors to restore someone's health instead of God...Anyway regardless of the unbelieve by some ( even by some who were praying for him ), he was healed, miraculously and instantly...

Perhaps a Baptist pastor will do to confirm this healing. The man who was healed has many friends in the Baptist church. In fact, the man's testimony says the Baptist pastor went to visit him shortly after his healing. This pastor will confirm the healing. Rev. Glen Shock, First Baptist Church. I will only Private Message his phone #. Anyone from the fellowship I attend will attest to his healing. There are even some non-Christians that will attest to his healing. Or what about the man himself?????

 

[allieisme]

Originally posted by franklin

Hi allie, Paul made it clear that tongues (languages) was the least important of all the gifts and that love is the greatest of all the gifts.  Read 1Cor12, 13, 14 for further insight....  Paul never said that tongues (languages) was the greatest of the gifts. 

Well I never said that Paul said that tongues was among the greatest gifts ever, so I guess we agree on that IMO speaking in tongues is ONE of the greatest gifts... thanks 


   
 

It is evident that you already speak in the english tongue, are you bilingual or do you speak in multiple languages by any chance? 

No, english is the only language I speak.

Do you ever pray in a prayer group outloud in English?  If you start praying in another language that everyone else doesn't understand then you must have an interpreter present otherwise remain silent as stated by Paul in 1Cor14:27,28: 

Yes I'm aware of the interpreter. 

   

  

 

[Andrew]

quote: "Andrew I am going to follow up on your claims and email your pastor for this evidence. 9-Iron please provide for me the phone number to the church of Christ that you say has witnessed this mans healing. "

that's great. but dont just limit it to my church, after all, most of what we've learnt comes from faith and healing pioneers from your own country. you have so many faith and healing churches there, so why not widen your search too.

God bless

 

[Andrew]

allieisme,

Sent you a PM on 2 tongues mp3 sermon extracts, if u are interested.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Hi allie, Paul made it clear that tongues (languages) was the least important of all the gifts and that love is the greatest of all the gifts.  Read 1Cor12, 13, 14 for further insight....  Paul never said that tongues (languages) was the greatest of the gifts...

1. love is not a gift

2. Paul did not say that love is greater than the gifts, he said that love is better than coveting to get the best gifts to operate

3. The best gift is the gift that is needed to get the job done. Healing is useless to someone who needs a demon cast out. If a person needs to be built up in their spirit, then tongues may in fact be the best gift for them.

 

 

[9-iron]

Cougan, I might have spoke to soon, I do have a member of the Church of Christ here in town that will confirm this man's healing!!!!!, I will Private Message it do if you would like me to, but only if you will truly follow up and get confirmation by more than one person.....AND call the man himself to hear his testimony....

 

[cougan]

Andrew I emailed your pastor. So far no response. I'm working on getting the numbers from Iron 9.

 

[LouisBooth]

"Paul did not say that love is greater than the gifts, he said that love is better than coveting to get the best gifts to operate "

My question is this..do you ALWAYS have an interpreter to interpret this "event" and does it ALWAYS edify the church or nonbelievers. A two sentence answer will do thanks.