• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Tithing/Speaking in Tongues

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by greekgal, Jun 10, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    No and No.

    Not tithing is not an abomination. Look through the whole Bible and read all the passages on abomination, and tithing is not mentioned.

    And no, people who do not regularly speak in tongues are not second-class Christians. It is your heart and your relationship with God that makes you a Christian, not the sounds that come out of your mouth.
  2. Elnaam

    Elnaam Member

    "Bloke" Where ever did that term come from?
  3. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    2Cor 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness. 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

    We do not tithe we give what we purpose in our heart.

    Answer to number 2. If we still had the miracleous gift today to speak in tongues then the answer would still be no.
  4. jimigold

    jimigold Jimi for short

    Of course not! (IMO) God gives everyone gifts/talents that they use in their own way to do his will. If that gift happens to be tongues for one person then so be it, but for others it will be other things.

    • Are you good at a musical instrument?
    • Are you good at argueing God's 'case'?
    • Are you good at giving speeches?
    • Are you good at the laying of hands and healing?
    • Gift of Prophesy
    • Pretty much the "fruits of the holy spirit"
    • And any other talents that God has given you.
    • Could be absolutely anything at all!

    Just my thoughts on the matter ;)
  5. greekgal

    greekgal New Member


    I'm good at typing (120-150+ WPM). (I'm a medical transcriptionist). In 8th grade, I flunked typing class because I couldn't "pick it up". Two years later, I told myself I needed to do something with my life and tried taking typing again and, to my amazement, I picked it up FAST. I'm convinced God helped me on that one.
  6. jimigold

    jimigold Jimi for short

    Sounds like he did!
    Congratulations with that.

    **edit** Hang about! I've just realised that 150 WPM is well over TWO WORDS PER SECOND!!!.
  7. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism

    If you don't tithe at all, it's not an abomination!

    Tongues means to speak in different language's.... I think the scripture is very clear that the gift doesn't even exist any longer.... read 1Cor 12, 13 & 14 chapters...
    and a resounding NO! you are not any less of a Christian if you don't speak in another language! That is pure rubbish to the bone!
  8. TruelightUK

    TruelightUK Tilter at religious windmills

    The scriptures quoted only say the various gifts will pass away - it doesn't specify when!

    Has the Holy Spirit been removed from the Chruch? If He's still around, why would He have stopped manifesting Himself? Or are we now so perfect we don't need His help?

  9. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    Cessation of miracles: two contexts considered
    Were miraculous gifts to abide with the church until the end of time, or, due to their specific design, were they only a temporary phenomena? This matter is discussed rather comprehensively in two New Testament contexts. We will consider each of these.

    In 1 Corinthians 13, the inspired apostle addresses the duration of spiritual gifts in the Lord’s church. He commences by showing that these gifts must be exercised in love, for miraculous powers, void of love, were worthless. This theme was quite appropriate in view of the disposition of rivalry which threatened the unity of the Corinthian congregation (some exalting certain gifts above others, etc.).

    From this initial instruction there is a very natural transition into the character and permanence of love, in contrast to the transitory function of spiritual gifts.

    Of the nine gifts mentioned in chapter 12:8-10, Paul selects three to illustrate his argument. Significantly, all three were related directly to the revealing of God’s will to man. The apostle affirms that prophecies shall be done away; tongues shall cease; knowledge, i.e., supernatural knowledge, shall be done away. It is wonderfully clear, therefore, that these three gifts (and by implication all miraculous gifts) were not designed to be a permanent fixture within the church.

    In 1 Corinthians 13:9, Paul contends that God’s will, by means of these spiritual gifts (knowledge, prophecy, etc.) was made known gradually, i.e., “in part.” The expression “in part” translates the Greek to ek merous, literally, “the things in part.” It denotes “a part as opposed to the whole” (Abbott-Smith, 284).

    And so, we make the following argument;

    The “in part” things shall be done away.

    But, the “in part” things are the supernatural gifts by which the will of God was revealed.

    Thus, the supernatural gifts, by which the will of God was made known, were to be terminated.
    But the question is: when were these gifts to pass away?

    The answer is: “when that which is perfect is come.” In the Greek Testament, the expression literally reads, to teleion, “the complete thing.” The term “perfect,” when used of quantity, is better rendered “complete” or “whole.”

    A noted scholar observes: “In the Pauline corpus the meaning ‘whole’ is suggested at I C. 13:10 by the antithesis to ek merous” (Kittel, VIII.75). In his translation of the New Testament, J. B. Phillips renders it: “. . . when the Complete comes, that is the end of the Incomplete.”

    So, we may reason as follows:

    Whatever the “in part” things are partially, the “whole” is, in completed form.

    But, the “in part” things were the spiritual gifts employed in the revealing of God’s will (word).

    Therefore, the “whole” was God’s will (word) - as conveyed through the gifts - completely revealed.
    Within this context, therefore, the apostle actually is saying this:

    God’s revelation is being made known part-by-part, through the use of spiritual gifts; when that revelation is completed, these gifts will be needed no longer, hence, will pass away from the church’s possession.
    As noted scholar W. E. Vine observed:

    “With the completion of Apostolic testimony and the completion of the Scriptures of truth (‘the faith once for all delivered to the saints’, Jude 3. R.V.), ‘that which is perfect’ had come, and the temporary gifts were done away” (184).
    Remember this vital point. Spiritual gifts and the revelatory process were to be co-extensive. If men are performing miracles today, their messages are as binding as the New Testament record! If such is the case, the New Testament is not the final word.

    This theme is similarly dealt with in Ephesians 4, where it is affirmed that when Christ “ascended on High” He “gave gifts unto men” (8ff). The gifts were miraculously endowed functions in the church (e.g., apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers). The design of these capacities was “for the perfecting [katartismos] of the saints.”

    The original word denotes “complete qualification for a specific purpose” (Analytical Greek Lexicon, 220). Or, as Arndt & Gingrich render it, “to equip the saints for service” (419).

    Moreover, the duration of these supernatural governments was specified. They were to continue “till we all attain unto the unity of the faith” (4:13). “Till” is from mechri, and it suggests a “specification of time up to which this spiritual constitution was designed to last” (Ellicott, 95).

    The word “unity” (henotes) basically means “oneness” (Analytical, 119). It derives from the term hen, the neuter of heis, and it emphasizes oneness “in contrast to the parts, of which a whole is made up” (Arndt, 230).

    Finally, the expression “the faith” refers to the revealed gospel system (cf. Gal. 1:23; 1 Tim. 5:8).

    And so, to sum up: the apostle contends that spiritual gifts would continue until the gospel system, in its individual parts (as portrayed in 1st Corinthians 13) came together in oneness, i.e., the completed or whole revelation (New Testament record) (see MacKnight, 335). Ephesians 4 and 1st Corinthians 13 are wonderfully complimentary.
  10. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    *mod hat on* please only address the gifts questions as there are 2 other threads dealing with tithes If this thread becomes a discussion on tithes it will be closed and directed to another thread. Thanks *mod hat off*
  11. TruelightUK

    TruelightUK Tilter at religious windmills

    Well, if you consider that the Church is - and has been for the past 1900+ years - completely unified in its perfect knowledge of the whole truth of God's counsel, then I guess we don't need the Holy spirit to show us anything anymore!

    I don't really want to get into a long-drawn out argument on this one, as past experience shows me that those who hold these views are totally convinced as to their - to me, very contrived - interpretation of these particular verses; basically if that's what you want them to say, you will make them say it, no matter what other insights other (equally well-qualified, spiritually mature) scholars may have to say on the matter! 

    Just to say that perfection - complete wholeness of understanding and revelation - will not (so far as I can see) come in this present age, but only when we see face to face and know as we are known.  Until then, we remain limited human beings requiring the Holy Spirit's intervention to help us know God's mind and will in various situations,  thus the continuing need for prophetic and revelatory gifts, and who suffer the imperfections and vicissitudes of the fallen human state, and thus at times require miraculous healing etc.  The Gospel continues to be preached to the unsaved, and thus the confirmation of the message with signs and wonders is also needed, if their faith is to rest not in men's wisdom but on the power of the Spirit.  The canon of Scripture was indeed closed in the late first century and, with the death of the last Apostles of the Lamb no 'new' prophetic revelation of that foundational quality was forthcoming - the Apostles' Doctrine was established - but the need for spiritual insight into the application of that doctrine to specific new and changing circumstances (which is what the prophetic gifts do today) will continue forever, as will the need for spiritually 'anointed and appointed' ministers to help build us all up in our faith and walk.  Thus the gifts and giftings will continue while the Church remains on earth and Christ in the heavens.  When the two are united forever, however, we will need no 'other counsellor' to remain with us and in us and remind us of his words, and these gifts will cease!

  12. 9-iron

    9-iron Football Fan

    All believers are "Filled with the Spirit",  whether they pray or speak in tongues or not!!!! I pray in tongues daily, but it is for my personal edification, to use in worship, and to use in intercession. It is ABSURB to think that anyone who prays in tongues is any better than another Christian PERIOD!!!!, I have dealt with this for years. Pentacostals & Charasmatics thinking they have something others don't in receiving the HOLY SPIRIT through evidence in speaking in tongues.

    In James the Bible says the tongue is a restless evil and NO MAN can control it, but it doesn't say GOD can't control it. I use tounges in my personal prayer time to allow GOD to use this gift as an rudder so to speak to steer my tongue and clean it up. This is an example of the purpose and use of tongues, it is in no way to be used to judge someones spiritual level...
  13. franklin

    franklin Sexed up atheism = Pantheism


    Hi truelight, I would have to say the scripture is clear as to when the gifts have passed away when the scripture speaks for itself and the historical setting is kept in it's proper context and perspective. Therefore the question we need to ask is, did these gifts come to an end? 

    1 Corinthians 13:8, "Love never faileth: but whether prophecies, they shall be done away; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall be done away."

    1 Corinthians 13:11, "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

    Paul's use of "spake", "understood", and "thought" seems to correspond respectively to the "tongues", "prophesy", and "knowledge" of verse 8. The point of this passage is to explain that partial revelation via tongues, and so forth, will cease when the full revelation of God in Scripture is completed. This occurred by the end of the Old Covenant age, which was in 70AD. 
  14. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

    United States
    There is a clue in 1 Corin 13 as to the nature of these gifts: 

    1 Cor 13: (YLT) 
    8 The love doth never fail; and whether [there be] prophecies, they shall become useless; whether tongues, they shall cease; whether knowledge, it shall become useless; 
    9 for in part we know, and in part we prophecy; 

    Some alternate wording:

    useless=idle, dormant, be abolished

    These chapters (1 Cor 12-14) are discussed in greater detail in the Prophetic School book "Principles or Prophetic Utterance and Ministry". From these verses we see some interesting concepts.

    In the immature assembly, prophecies will "fail" (due to lack of action or unbelief), tongues will be intermittent (come and go, on and off), and knowledge will lie dormant (ineffective due to a lack of action or application).

    The failing aspect of prophecies will be abolished. The intermittent aspect of the gift of tongues will cease. The limited (partial) aspect of knowledge will vanish away. He is not saying that we will not longer have these gifts when we achieve maturity. He is saying that the _limitations_ of the gifts will pass away when we reach maturity. The limitations will vanish, not the gifts. 

    10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 
    11: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    A child falls down a lot as it is learning to walk. As it matures, the "falling down" becomes less and less frequent. By the time the child reaches a certain age, all this falling down ceases. The walking does not cease when one reaches maturity! When we reach maturity, that which is "partial" is done away. By definition, that which is incomplete ceases to be incomplete when it reaches completion. It does not cease to exist. It just ceases it's incomplete state. When we reach maturity, those "partial" aspects of our giftings and manifestations will cease. A child thinks like a child, speaks like a child, and understands as a child. When the child reaches maturity, it does not cease to think, speak, or understand. It ceases to think, speak, and, understand _as a child_. He still thinks, speaks, and understands... but he does it in a mature and complete manner. The gifts are not done away, as some use this passage to say. The gifts are used in a mature and complete manner. 

    12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

    When maturity comes, we will cease to see things in a vague and unclear way and our knowledge will be complete.


    Study to Show Yourself Approved 

    (1.) Does 1 Corin 13 state that gifts are going to be done away when we become mature believers?

    (2.) What will be done away when we become mature believers?

    (3.) The gifts of the Spirit are part of the foundational teachings mentioned in Heb 6:1-5. They are called milk, baby food, and elementary. These gifts are manifested by immature and incomplete believers. If we proceed on to doctrinal maturity ("perfection" of Heb 6:1), then can we expect that mature ministering of these gifts will accompany? 

    (4.) In light of question #3, what would 1 Cor 13:2 imply as to the mature manifestation of the mentioned gifts:

    "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

    What would verses 8-10 imply about the mature ministering of the gifts mentioned:

    8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
    9: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 
    10: But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
  15. 9-iron

    9-iron Football Fan

    1Corinthians 13:12 " For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then FACE TO FACE; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully..."

    In verse 10, Paul speaks of perfection coming. What is perfect, not us, but CHRIST, what are we going to see FACE TO FACE, CHRIST. We now see CHRIST dimly, but when HE comes we shall see HIM -FACE TO FACE- then we shall know in FULL His perfection. Then what shall remain, LOVE, no prophecy, no tongues, etc. won't need them when we come Face-to-Face...Paul used this gifts as an reference to all gifts, Corinthians 12 says all gifts are from the same Spirit, and that there are a variety of gifts, but one Lord..and the same God works all things in all persons....

    The reference to speaking as a child was because the corinthians were abusing the gifts of prophecy, tongues and knowledge, they needed to mature in the use of their gifts, we no longer speak as children for we now understand what we say, so we also as we grow from spiritual children to mature we understand what we speak......
  16. Andrew

    Andrew Well-Known Member

    The key to understnding this passge is to know just what the "perfection" is.

    Actually, the passage itself tells us: It says " Now I know in part (imperfection); then I shall know fully (perfection), even as I am fully (perfectly) known (by the one who is perfect/perfection himself, Jesus.)"

    Becoming perfect happens at the rapture in an instant. And when that happens, these gifts will cease becos we dont need them anymore. But for now, we certainly need them, all the more, since we are living in the last days.
  17. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    The topic of 1 Corinthians 13? The enduring and superlative nature of love as contrasted with all other aspects of the Christian faith.

    By contrast, prophecy and tongues etc are not noteworthy. Having all the others, but not having love, is of no benefit.
  18. Thunderchild

    Thunderchild Sheep in Wolf's clothing

    I will yield to Andrew's precis...masterly done
  19. cougan

    cougan Senior Member


    Subjectivism, acceptance of the emotions prompted by human experiences as the proper testimony in matters of religion, has undermined the Christian system more than many realize. Turning from divine revelation as the single evidence of faith, to the multiplied and diverse feelings housed up in the flesh, has warped the thinking and direction of many -- to such extent that we now witness errors on the Holy Spirit's role never imagined as possible issues within the churches of Christ. Advocacy of tongues speaking, demon possession, Spirit leadings separate from the written word, and the offering of an inner consciousness as evidence for faith and practice have become too common in some quarters. We propose that all present day tongues movements are unscriptural and devotees thereto constitute a cult in opposition to pure religion.


    Communication is at the center of attention when studying the office of the Holy Spirit. "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come" (John 16:13). This text, addressed to the apostles only, presents the argument that the work of the Spirit was to reveal the mind of God to the apostles and cause them to remember that which had been taught of the Lord. Inspiration and revelation made the communication to the Spirit-filled apostles who in turn, John-like, obeyed the order "What thou seest, write in a book" (Rev. 1:11). Any theory shoving the Spirit into a movement wherein he operates above and beyond the written word constitutes a not-so-covert denial of the inspiration of the scriptures as the all-sufficient guide.

    Diversities of revelations, continual communication, separate and apart from the written word, presents diversities of doctrines which are divisive in nature, not unifying. Men begging for recognition within the fellowship of the New Testament church while proposing the continuation of tongues speaking are in actuality advocating the inadequacy of the scriptures and the necessity of hearing their new word -- they are no more correct in their assertion nor right in their stance than the Roman Pope, the false prophet Joe Smith, or the false prophetess Ellen G. White. We have lifted the banner of truth against these false teachers outside the church and we shall not close our eyes to the same errors preached within the body. We further propose that any notion of an immediate indwelling of the Holy Spirit in individual Christians exists for immediate influence. The contention that no immediate influence is exerted by an immediate indwelling reduces the argument to nonsense. God does not perform in superfluous manners -- a direct indwelling demands a direct influence.

    What influences the Christian other than the written word? If you feel an influence separate and apart from the word, above and beyond the written word, if you are led by the Holy Spirit without the word, what sign do you exhibit confirming the influence as being from God? Tongues? "And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following" (Mark 16:20). Is this unscriptural quest for and insistence upon speaking in tongues an outgrowth of certain individuals desiring to make new revelations, communications, and confirm the divine origin of those new doctrines? If not, the tongues are unessential. If so, the Bible is incomplete. Either way tongues cares go in the argument they are wrong.


    Claimants to the gift of tongues in modern times consistently define tongues as unintelligible utterances, an admitted jargon -- "ecstatic utterances," "prayer language," "holy laughter," -- contradicting the axiom that the Holy Spirit communicates. The Holy Spirit addresses man's consciousness through communication -- words, the vehicles of communication. Man is an intelligent creature. God addresses him as such for he is not a puppet necessarily manipulated by outside forces over which he has not jurisdiction. Choice has been given man. Upon weighing the evidence of God's Word men either obey or disobey -- choice is a rational, mental, intelligent function.

    Ecstatic, emotional, unreasonable, unconscious, disconnected and non-edifying outbursts are not characteristic of Divinity! The garbled jargon of a dis-oriented person, apparently psychologically over-wrought, having been duped into believing a whipping-up of emotions, the fleshly senses, is spirituality, makes God appear dis-oriented. Contortions and convulsions do not answer to conversion. The bewildered response that a so-called speaker of tongues edifies himself although others do not understand misses the point, for all public conduct is to be to the edification of the assembly. Paul's entire argument demands an intelligent tongue, a known tongue, language, be used that instruction results. In the event no interpreter is available, let the tongue-speaker remain silent in the assembly (1 Cor. 14:11-24,27-28).

    Assertion that "the gift of the Holy Spirit" in Acts 2:38 is in fact the gift of tongues amounts to a gross misconstruction and misapplication of the text. Bloomfield's Greek Testament has the following: "... [@ten] [@dorean] [@tou] [@hagiou] [@pneumatos]. By this seems to be here chiefly meant, not the miraculous gifts before adverted to, but, as appears from what follows, the ordinary aids and influences of the Spirit given to every man to profit withal." Charismatics are standing outside evidence on Acts 2:38. The gift of the Spirit in no wise relates to supernatural performance, miraculous gifts, but the ordinary influences of the Spirit -- that is, through the word, for the supernatural gifts were for the confirmation of the word. Since no supernatural element is found in the phrase of Acts 2:38, no further revelations were to be made and no further confirmations would be essential; hence, miracles ceased. The tongues advocates are out of order time-wise -- they are applying texts to modern conditions that were given to the apostles and the first century church alone.


    An exegesis of the tongues passages is both concise and enlightening.

    Acts 2:4,6,11. The Pentecost Day beginning of the church is the beginning of the use of tongues -- known languages. Effort to denominate the current tongues movement as a Pentecostal experience is anachronistic -- out of its time period. The attempt is due to the exercise of tongues and to that fact alone. Follow the Biblical sequence: "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance" (Acts 2:4). The apostles, filled with the Spirit, spoke in tongues -- tongues that were heard, that is, understood: "and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language" (Acts 2:6). That truth is emphasized and amplified when Luke records; "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?" (Acts 2:8). Furthermore, the text lists the various dialects required to reach such a diverse audience. Why, if the languages were not intelligible (Acts 2:8-11)?

    Peter's inspired comment on the matter settles the time element of the text when he said, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; and it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh ... and they shall prophesy" (Acts 2:16-18). Since inspiration so restricted the interpretation of the Joel 2:28 prophecy to the Pentecost Day fulfillment, a general, or repeated fulfillment cannot be anticipated. To so argue the passage is a mishandling of both the prophecy and its fulfillment.

    Mark 16:17 -- Tongues are herein mentioned as one of several signs promised to the apostles and to them alone. Who was privy to this conversation other than the twelve? Due to the fact that the text refers as well to the casting out of devils, taking up serpents, and drinking deadly poison, along with the healing of the sick, we question the 20th-century practice of tongues, glossolalia, to the exclusion of the other promised gifts. Why tongues to the neglect of the others? All such signs were given in the beginning as means of confirming the word -- Mark 16:17-20 constitute one section. The references are to the witness of the Holy Spirit to the preaching of the apostles. Paul stated of the matter:

    "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation: which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord. and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him: God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?" (Heb. 2:3-4)

    Present preaching on demon possession and the existence of devils indwelling men today by some of our brethren is only evidence of the ignorance that is mounting pulpits! Some, unable to cope with the direct-indwelling-of-the-Holy-Spirit-in-Christians issue have adopted the indwelling of the Devil in sinners! How can Bible-preaching, Bible-believing, and Bible-studying people condone such balderdash? Since they have gone from the direct indwelling of the Spirit to demon possession, possibly some will begin handling rattlesnakes! If we are going to be Pentecostals, call us Pentecostals. If we are going to be Christians, leave Pentecostalism alone.

    Acts 10:46. Third, in the sequence of the tongues passages is the matter of the inauguration of the gospel to Gentiles. The household of Cornelius was given the gift of tongues in an outpouring from heaven for the purpose, stated within the passages, of convincing the Jewish eyewitnesses that God, not man, had opened repentance unto life to the heathen nations (Acts 15:7-9). Applying the text in a fashion other than that by the apostle results in error. Press the passage no further than Peter's inspired application. "For they (Jewish witnesses) heard them (household of Cornelius) speak with tongues" (Acts 10:46).

    The case of Cornelius is unique -- the first Gentile converts, received the gift of tongues from heaven rather than by laying on of hands. Cornelius is used as an indisputable argument for direct Spiritual regeneration on the basis of the foregoing; yet, those so stating are ignoring the truth that there can be no degrees in Holy Spirit baptism. Had Cornelius been baptized with the Spirit he would have been equal to the apostles -- one is either baptized with the Spirit or not, and two so baptized received the same thing, an equal measure. If Cornelius had been so baptized with the Spirit, he would have enjoyed the very powers entailed in such a baptism. He would have known, even as Peter knew, the words of salvation and it would not have been necessary for the apostle to preach in that house.

    It must be remembered by our preachers that the fact that Cornelius was able to speak in tongues was not a demonstration of Spirit baptism, but of a gift, a single gift, as demonstrated by various members of the churches during the period of time in which spiritual gifts existed. Had Cornelius been challenged to demonstrate the powers inherent in Holy Spirit baptism he would have failed as certainly as those fail today who claim Holy Spirit baptism. The apostles were baptized with the Spirit -- they wrote the Bible. Spirit-baptized men of the twentieth century could do the same thing, and Cornelius could have written it had he received that baptism. We have long held to an inconsistency on this subject and some of our debating brethren will find themeIves eventually nailed to the wall by some sectarian preacher wise enough to seize upon the situation.

    Proof of Holy Spirit baptism does not consist in speaking in tongues -- tongues were never given for that purpose. Proof of Holy Spirit baptism lies in the possession of the Comforter ([@Parakletos]) as promised to the apostles, and that spells Advocate, the plenary and verbal inspiration of the word given the apostles alone.

    "It came to pass, that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus; and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him. We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied" (Acts 19:1-6).

    Paul baptized twelve Ephesians who knew only the baptism of John and had never heard of the Holy Spirit. They received the gift of tongues as another instance of proof -- proof that John's baptism was invalid and that all spiritual blessings are in Christ, not Moses. Tongues were given as a gift when Paul "laid his hands upon them." The gift was given in that manner -- a manner constant with the manner of all other gifted Christians outside the band of the twelve apostles who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Since the gift was received in the laying on of hands, it was not the gift of Acts 2:38 which is given all baptized believers. Furthermore, since it was by the laying on of hands it ceased with the termination of all other spiritual gifts according to 1 Cor. 13.
  20. cougan

    cougan Senior Member

    1 Cor. 12:1-10,30. The nine spiritual gifts are listed: word of wisdom, word of knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, tongues, interpretation of tongues. Tongues are languages -- literally, the faculty of speaking in various languages, here understood to be never before studied or learned. Interpretation of tongues was an essential gift. Tongues and interpretations of tongues did not necessarily reside in the same individual, but when an interpreter was not available the tongue-speaker was to remain silent (1 Cor. 14:28). 1 Cor. 14:30 announces that such gift was not universally given the church -- "Do all speak with tongues?" Tongues were not intended for all, but the Corinthians, predating modern cultish advocates of tongues, held to this gift above all others due to the sensational character of the gift. The Corinthians ranked glossalalia first; Paul ranked it last. The apostles thus marked the inferiority of tongues while noting the superiority of prophecy, instruction or teaching (1 Cor. 12:8-10,30-31; 14:1).

    This section states the purpose of tongues as a gift -- "for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not" (1 Cor. 14:22). The precise manner in which the spiritual gifts are cataloged necessarily implies that all nine had a single purpose -- propagation and confirmation of the gospel message with tongues the essential gift to bring understanding to foreign people.

    1 Cor. 13:8. The statement is emphatic, and clear: "whether there be tongues, they shall cease." The end of the gift would be commensurate with the complete revelation of the gospel: "When that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away" (1 Cor. 13:10). The "perfect" of the passage is held in contrast to that "which is in part." The "complete" is in contrast to the "fragmentary." What was fragmentary, in part? "We know in part, and we prophesy in part." The spiritual gifts were in part -- temporary powers or abilities that would continue till the revelation was completed and confirmed. Once the purpose of spiritual gifts has been met no need of their office continues. Are there other, additional, doctrines to be revealed? Nay -"all things that pertain to life and godliness hath been granted." Such being the case, spiritual gifts, including tongues, have ceased.

    1 Cor. 14:1-40. The sensational quality of the gift of tongues made it quite susceptible to mis-use. 1 Cor. 12 names the gifts and introduces the Corinthian prejudice toward tongues, 1 Cor. 13 announces that tongues would cease, and chapter fourteen is the regulation of the use of tongues for the benefit of the church rather than the personal glory of the gifted.

    A cursory view of 1 Cor. 14 reveals truths refuting the common practice of tongues advocates, the charismatics, with incisiveness:

    (1) Tongues are limited to speaking "unto God" when the audience cannot understand and no interpreter is present (1 Cor. 14:2);

    (2) Such action is self-edifying and glorifying for the assembly is ignored (1 Cor. 14:4);

    (3) The unknown of unknown tongues in the King James Version being italicized publicizes that the term is not in the original; therefore, unknown tongues does not mean ecstatic utterances as the perverted New English Bible phrases it, but means a language unknown by study to the speaker. The italics designate that the word is not in the original and has been supplied by the translators for the sake of clarity -- the italics are not there for emphasis purposes (1 Cor. 14:2,4,13,14,19,27);

    (4) Tongues were useful only when edifying (1 Cor. 14:5);

    (5) Tongues were definite languages, else they would have an uncertain sound (1 Cor. 14:10);

    (6) The secondary nature of tongues is seen in that the speaker should remain silent when no interpreter was present (1 Cor. 14:28);

    (7) The gift of tongues was a sign to the unbeliever, not believers -- it was never intended to be a source of self-glory within the assembly nor a means of confusing nor tossing the assembly into an indecent and disorderly state (1 Cor. 14:22,26-32,40);

    (8) A confused assembly by reason of lack of decorum induced by the emotionai and sensational characteristic of an abused gift of tongues announces madness to observers (1 Cor. 14:23-25);

    (9) Tongues, as with all spiritual gifts, are to be controlled by the one gifted (1 Cor. 14:32);

    (10) The abuse of tongues, or any spiritual gift, resulted in confusion, and "God is not the author of confusion" (1 Cor. 14:33).


    This modern tongues mania attacks the inspiration of the Scriptures. If tongues exist in this day they be for the express purpose of confirming new revelations, for confirmation and edification was the design of the gift. If tongues exist our New Testament is insufficient to save, it is not complete, its inspiration is indicted. If the New Testament is sufficient and its inspiration is infallible, tongues have ceased. The quest for tongues is an outburst of uncontrolled religious egotism. As with the Corinthian church, so with tongues advocates today. The Corinthian attraction to tongues was a perversity of attitude toward all other spiritual gifts, and was the outcome of an egotistic drive for self-adulation rather than congregational edification. For this reason Paul chided, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all" (1 Cor. 14:18).

    The upshot of the matter is that folks operating on inner consciousness, feelings, instead of faith, will set aside divine revelation without a thought, for in their heart they know the apostle is mistaken! "In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord" (1 Cor. 14:21). The apostle's application of Isa. 28:11-12 settles its intent -- the text predicts more than God's execution of vengeance on Israel by a foreign country. The wrath of God against sin would be voiced by foreigners through the gift of tongues as a means of convicting sinners, unbelievers. Conviction follows the power of tongues confirming the word as of God rather than the imaginations of men, and once a constitution has been confirmed, ratified, it does not require renewal. Ratification is demanded only when an amendment is considered. Is this the cause lying behind and motivating those toying with tongue-speaking? Are they coming with some new thing tantalizing a dull generation with the sensational character of so-called tongues?


    Wiser men within the neo-Pentecostal movement are coming to identical conclusions. A Nazarene preacher of considerable renown recently advised a convention of Pentecostals to "abandon the use of tongues." He admitted that the motivations to tongue-speaking were unscriptural inasmuch as they were motivated by the mysterious instead of the known, were irrational by reason of the emotional emphasis, and they renounced intellectual pride. What will become of our innovationists that have aped the Pentecostals? It is high time we outgrew this "monkey-see, monkey-do" attitude.

    Inspiration closed this treatise with a sharp charge: "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant" (1 Cor. 14:37-38). Rejection of Paul's letter marks the antagonist, the dissident, as one overwhelmed with ignorance on the subject, prejudiced in his own conceits, and unwilling to hear inspired teaching on the matter. In the dissident's unwillingness to hear the apostle, in his ignorance he will remain ignorant, and should be so considered -- "let him be ignorant." One cannot become wise while rejecting the words of wisdom in divine revelation. "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ" (1 Cor. 2:16).
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.