Knowledge of love imparted by God wherein one must sanctify as in John 17 . This chapter is deep when one absorbs it to self .
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Thoughts ...
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FredVB
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Jesus prayed, as shown here from John 17:11-20, for his followers, those to be the apostles, and then referring to those who believe in him through them,
"I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in your name. Those whom you have given me I have kept. I have given them your word. The world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that you would take them from the world, but that you would keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth. For their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who believe in me through their word."
His followers, the ones becoming apostles and the others with them, were not of this world. This is important. It is with sanctification which there should be, showing that clearly. Many will say they are Christian, or that they follow Jesus, or Christ, but many are still living as those of the world do, and they are not separate in reality to not be of this world. The change for believers is to be doing that, just as in the prayer given to model for us what to pray, as God's perfect will is in Heaven, we should conform to it for living according to it, for it to be in this world as this is prayed for. Compromising how to be like Christ is not desirable, real believers would really be growing in that, showing virtues in loving and having compassion, and other virtues, not limiting those as some would willingly do.
"I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in your name. Those whom you have given me I have kept. I have given them your word. The world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that you would take them from the world, but that you would keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in your truth. Your word is truth. For their sakes I sanctify myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth. Not for these only do I pray, but for those also who believe in me through their word."
His followers, the ones becoming apostles and the others with them, were not of this world. This is important. It is with sanctification which there should be, showing that clearly. Many will say they are Christian, or that they follow Jesus, or Christ, but many are still living as those of the world do, and they are not separate in reality to not be of this world. The change for believers is to be doing that, just as in the prayer given to model for us what to pray, as God's perfect will is in Heaven, we should conform to it for living according to it, for it to be in this world as this is prayed for. Compromising how to be like Christ is not desirable, real believers would really be growing in that, showing virtues in loving and having compassion, and other virtues, not limiting those as some would willingly do.
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jugghead
Growing
defining those words "not of the world"
Most Christians define those words by saying "it means going to church" "obeying God's law" and that is because they see the world as the middle between darkness and light, between good and evil, between heaven and hell (all the same truth) ......
whereas I see darkness is the middle between the world and light, the great gulf fixed ..... being called out of the world, we enter into darkness where the lesser light rules (the law, old covenant) to learn obedience as a servant, then continue our walk out of darkness entering into the light (grace, new covenant) where the greater light rules, to learn how to love as a son.
Just as Abraham was called into a foreign land (unknown/darkness) so are we ..... just as Christ, called out of His world born into the world of darkness to be the light of the world ..... the light of His world .... grace .. truth .. and most of all .... love
Most Christians define those words by saying "it means going to church" "obeying God's law" and that is because they see the world as the middle between darkness and light, between good and evil, between heaven and hell (all the same truth) ......
whereas I see darkness is the middle between the world and light, the great gulf fixed ..... being called out of the world, we enter into darkness where the lesser light rules (the law, old covenant) to learn obedience as a servant, then continue our walk out of darkness entering into the light (grace, new covenant) where the greater light rules, to learn how to love as a son.
Just as Abraham was called into a foreign land (unknown/darkness) so are we ..... just as Christ, called out of His world born into the world of darkness to be the light of the world ..... the light of His world .... grace .. truth .. and most of all .... love
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VanillaSunflowers
Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life
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Reasoning with men & true sanctification can not be as the first quote states. "Sanctification true" is not supported by a church without there doctrine in place (for most) which does limit the Spirit in what it can do, Matthew 18:6 Matthew 18:10 , wherein physical age does not apply to the child of Spirit as all are children that hear and it is manifested in the child on His knee, represents us . Luke 14:26 has terminology of darkness to explain the light and in picture if one does not love and trust God firstly, then those, in last verse (preacher and church are included), one can never transform their mind, Romans 12:2 , for they reason with men & follow men that negates Proverbs 3:5. Which furthermore, inhibits the mustard seed to grow with no limitation on it. Sanctification requires time for the mind has been limited since birth for most. Most Americans are drilled for 22 years in how to make the better dollar with a limited sense of morality usually taught in their various churches. That's a lot of physical junk in the mind, eh? Me too
. Generation after generation of sincere ignorance from people we love greatly know not they are gates to hell, Matthew 16:18. Even self, (Luke 14:26) if one can not rearrange the mind that love/light/agape is Gods "to us & through us" and His alone 
that equals John 17:23.I in them , Light/ 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 ... You in me, Genesis 1:3-4 (before the foundation of the world) that they be made perfect in one; (Light/agape/love/<- put the term you understand there) and that the world may know that you have sent me (New Testament/Covenant) and have loved them as you have loved me (Baptism of the Holy Spirit)
.Therein, self must bask in God (1 John 4:8) until there is no doubt in the very id through prayer and the Word, that will radiate out of us that which is God and can only be taught by God when one applies Hebrews 4:12 to align the soul .
Because our darkness is diverse (individualism), there is no scriptural order and/or context God uses to align our souls when we seek Him for God is alive in said scripture (AKA mystery revealed). However, the outcome is the same for we have knowledge of love through Gods Words/Bible and his Word Light/Jesus . This is a different stream to the same river as jugg posted about law and grace in post # 1428 .
Take that above before God and test it for truth Fred . May Galatians 5:22-23 be abundant in you and all who seek
.
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FredVB
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There is only the relationship with Yahweh God, with love, that we can have through Jesus Christ, with all that there is with grace made possible for us, that there is this change that believers come to. It is not a finished work, in our life in this world, we are supposed to be open to more for godliness that we are to learn, with experiences and information that still comes our way. This remains possible and it is still desirable, there is call from God according to God's perfect will. Prayer and reading from the scriptures from God as long as it is possible, which it sure is to us coming to this communication, is vital for it. It isn't contrary to biblical doctrine, and the biblical doctrine is important as well, but going to the scriptures from God, and praying in communication with God, as this may be through Christ, is important for that too. And from this there can be communication of it for others.
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.Love is love no matter the tree to express it
. In the beginning of this thread (years ago), I had to pray for wisdom (not book smarts but spiritual wisdom) as the language was at first difficult to grasp for church lingo was the, tree, of familiarity . It took a herculean effort to remove selfs judgment of the terminology used herein ,yet, in hind site . I needed the practice of applying prayer to remove self out of the way. There were a lot of personal truths to what I was reading to, "apply to self", when testing it in 1 John 4:1. Brother, this format can not show the meekness of who one is communicating with, thus as x141 put it , we see the other as we perceive ourselves , and when one ponders on that, prays on that, it is deep. With that said , do know what I write herein are thoughts with respect to you as a person and for you doctrine may be important but doctrine broke this mind. Yet the outcome remains the same that our ways differ but we meet in the light
.Church and doctrine are necessary and thus important to introduction to the Spirit.
In a past , quantity and context were the driving force of this mind for at 12 years of age the Holy Spirit visited a boy. In the fire of the Spirit he was taught by his god (preacher) old testament law (Hell fire if I don't...). As time passed the boy runs across Romans 3:10 but has no access to his preacher due to geological limitations. The boy continues in law as this verse keeps clashing in his mind. Upon mothers second divorce wherein the boy thinks its his fault, both times, that verse finally snaps his mind. Sin becomes the boys first love for thirty years.
That is what doctrine did for me in sincere ignorance by self and the preacher. However, others are not me, and their doctrine is a intricate part of their minds. 30 years of darkness took an intensive sanctification (call it therapy by God to apply to self) to re-align this mind Romans 12:2 to His Will . In hopes this gives insight combined to the homepage that the doctrines are many but the way is one.
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Today one learned the deepness of "How many words to explain a word, thought and idea".
Visited another thread asking a question on theology that came down to Simplicity . As one reads, it becomes apparent the tree grows and grows and simplicity is lost in the hugeness of the tree explaining the tree . And thus, I am now involved adding to the hugeness . For some reason this is hilarious because I laugh at self.
Visited another thread asking a question on theology that came down to Simplicity . As one reads, it becomes apparent the tree grows and grows and simplicity is lost in the hugeness of the tree explaining the tree
. And thus, I am now involved adding to the hugeness . For some reason this is hilarious because I laugh at self.
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John 14:9-12 (YLT)
Jesus saith to him, `So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? the sayings that I speak to you, from myself I speak not, and the Father who is abiding in me, Himself doth the works; believe me, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and if not, because of the works themselves, believe me. `Verily, verily, I say to you, he who is believing in me, the works that I do--that one also shall do, and greater than these he shall do, because I go on to my Father;
see how he counts us as himself? he explains reality even though the state of spiritual death is real (in a sense) but life is much more which is why life swallows it up. still, Jesus would have never done some of the evils that some humans do because he was always alive in his Father. but either way he and all humans go through the same process.
Jesus saith to him, `So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? the sayings that I speak to you, from myself I speak not, and the Father who is abiding in me, Himself doth the works; believe me, that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; and if not, because of the works themselves, believe me. `Verily, verily, I say to you, he who is believing in me, the works that I do--that one also shall do, and greater than these he shall do, because I go on to my Father;
see how he counts us as himself? he explains reality even though the state of spiritual death is real (in a sense) but life is much more which is why life swallows it up. still, Jesus would have never done some of the evils that some humans do because he was always alive in his Father. but either way he and all humans go through the same process.
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VanillaSunflowers
Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life
Amos 8:11
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water but of hearing the words of the LORD:
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FredVB
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I am aware that there are churches that contribute to the hurt of some, and it is really too bad. It means that for some believers to be in fellowship among a church, they might have to keep searching from church to church to find what is right for them to be in, while continuing in a prayerful relationship with Yahweh God, made possible through Christ. It shouldn't have to be with such searching. But the churches are not all right for each of us who are believers. But the fellowship with coming to Christ, with referring to scripture and with prayer and worship, as a body of believers, is desirable and of great value, this being why a right church for it is valuable for being found. There is the world out there otherwise that we all deal with, with more ungodly thinking to mislead many now, it is understandable that many fall away, especially among the younger that are influenced by many in secular culture that is around us that God is not needed at all, certainly among many educated circles.
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VanillaSunflowers
Black Lives Don't Matter More Than Any Other Life
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jugghead
Growing
My thought for today:
Why the "covenant of grace" is better than the "covenant of law"
The covenant of law reveals what the (our) flesh is (unrighteous) and does (sins)
The covenant of grace reveals what the (His) Spirit is (righteous) and does (loves)
If we love we do not sin; if we love we are righteous; if we love we are not of the flesh
The covenant of law only imparts a knowledge and surface understanding of sin,
where as
The covenant of grace not only imparts a knowledge and inner understanding of love but also an ability to love
Why the "covenant of grace" is better than the "covenant of law"
The covenant of law reveals what the (our) flesh is (unrighteous) and does (sins)
The covenant of grace reveals what the (His) Spirit is (righteous) and does (loves)
If we love we do not sin; if we love we are righteous; if we love we are not of the flesh
The covenant of law only imparts a knowledge and surface understanding of sin,
where as
The covenant of grace not only imparts a knowledge and inner understanding of love but also an ability to love
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http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUYf2yu78Ts
Starts off slow but maybe its designed that way to pick a peace that applies .
Starts off slow but maybe its designed that way to pick a peace that applies .
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jugghead
Growing
Yesterday when I was driving, the Lord made a connection I already knew, but it now became a part of my garden ..... I saw a cross with the words 'Jesus' blood saves", immediately I heard "the Spirit of the Word"
As my mind went to the cross, I saw the mixture of blood and water being poured out/shed ...... duality must be shed before entering the kingdom (ascending to the Father)
Then as I was watching last weeks episodes of the Voice, the same became one ..... music and lyrics (words) ..... if words do not trigger an emotion, they remain dead ..... the word needs to go through the baptism of the Spirit (become one with each other/single eye).
So many truths ..... but "one truth", He never ceases to make things new
As my mind went to the cross, I saw the mixture of blood and water being poured out/shed ...... duality must be shed before entering the kingdom (ascending to the Father)
Then as I was watching last weeks episodes of the Voice, the same became one ..... music and lyrics (words) ..... if words do not trigger an emotion, they remain dead ..... the word needs to go through the baptism of the Spirit (become one with each other/single eye).
So many truths ..... but "one truth", He never ceases to make things new
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