Thoughts on women in prayer

[Brighid]

I am curious about your thoughts and especially experiences from women, on praying and wearing a veil. Personally, I have always wished that I could wear a veil in church (Baptist church), but haven't done so because it would draw attention to me and so, be the opposite, imo, of humility. When I went to Vespers and was able to wear a veil and for the first time, was able to be in church while still feeling the intimacy that I feel while praying alone. I am curious if other women have had a similar experience with wearing a veil.
FYI, I have long, curly red hair and since I can remember, it's been the thing which other's seem to define me by and mention when meeting me, this has caused me to feel self-conscious about my hair. So, I guess I am wondering if this is an experience many women have or if it's just me.

A related issue for me, is that I don't feel comfortable praying out loud in front of people. The feeling to me is similar to the veil thing, where it feels like a breach of intimacy to pray to God out loud in front of others. (There have been a couple of exceptions, where I have felt comfortable praying out loud with another woman).
In the (protestant) churches I've attended, there has been pressure for me to pray out loud and I don't know if the right thing to do is to push myself to pray out loud or if my cautious feeling is from God. I would appreciate your thoughts.

 

[ArmyMatt]

even though I am a guy chiming in, but it sounds like two hooks God is using to draw you into Orthodoxy.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I am curious about your thoughts and especially experiences from women, on praying and wearing a veil. Personally, I have always wished that I could wear a veil in church (Baptist church), but haven't done so because it would draw attention to me and so, be the opposite, imo, of humility. When I went to Vespers and was able to wear a veil and for the first time, was able to be in church while still feeling the intimacy that I feel while praying alone. I am curious if other women have had a similar experience with wearing a veil.
FYI, I have long, curly red hair and since I can remember, it's been the thing which other's seem to define me by and mention when meeting me, this has caused me to feel self-conscious about my hair. So, I guess I am wondering if this is an experience many women have or if it's just me.

A related issue for me, is that I don't feel comfortable praying out loud in front of people. The feeling to me is similar to the veil thing, where it feels like a breach of intimacy to pray to God out loud in front of others. (There have been a couple of exceptions, where I have felt comfortable praying out loud with another woman).
In the (protestant) churches I've attended, there has been pressure for me to pray out loud and I don't know if the right thing to do is to push myself to pray out loud or if my cautious feeling is from God. I would appreciate your thoughts.

Interesting. I have the opposite problem, I’m a pastors kid and went to bible college so praying in groups comes very naturally, but private prayer is difficult because I feel all sorts of things like unworthiness, sinfulness and guilt but I am growing in this area!

I’m male but I think it’s pretty cool that you view a veil as what it was intended for; as opposed to restrictive and oppressive like most people in our society.

I can’t speak on this issue because I don’t have anything to say on it, but I wanted to encourage you because you are obviously taking this issue seriously and not throwing it out without consideration like modern Christian culture
In Christ
J

 

[Tolworth John]

Not everyone prays out loud in church pray meetings there is no commandment that says everyone must pray out loud.
How many people are there in your church and how many are at the prayer meetings?
If the numbers as not the same pay no attention to anyone who says you 'must' pray out loud.

What I would suggest is attend a small prayer meeting in someone's home. There with only a few people, who you know it is easier to pray out loud.
Also do talk to someone you trust about your nervousness, get professional advice.

 

[Lost4words]

I hardly ever pray out loud. When i pray in church, its almost a whisper. You get others in the congregation that seem to be praying so that people in the next church which is a mile away, can hear them!

 

[dzheremi]

The veil is part of being properly disposed for worship in the Coptic Orthodox Church, too (all the OO churches, in fact) so I hope you don't mind me replying, despite not being EO or a woman.

Personally, I think it is beautiful to see, just as I think it is beautiful to see the men in the congregation dressed in their best clothing, or at least in their most modest clothing. I don't think anyone should be turned away because they don't have a suit or whatever, just as no woman is ever turned away for arriving without her hair covered; one of the other women will simply offer her a veil from a little basket that is on their side of the church, if she doesn't grab one herself first.

We had at my old parish a sign above the door in English and Arabic stating the rules for communion, and one of them was "The believer dresses appropriately to be in the house of the Lord." And that's a big thing: it's the Lord's house. If you were going to meet the president or king of some country, you would dress appropriately, so how much more should we all do so when we are there to meet the Lord of all!

This seems like the kind of thing that will be resolved for you if/when you attend a church in which veiling and praying out loud is the standard. I'm sure there are plenty of EO churches where that is the case (though I have read some things here on TAW which suggest that some of their churches do not veil consistently, so it might be good to inquire before you go). And praying out loud is really just a matter of getting used to it. I went from not praying out loud as a Catholic (except when reciting the Creed, of course) to sometimes even doing the Epistle reading in the liturgy, when Fr. Marcus asked me to! (Since I was the only native English speaker who is also an adult man.)

God willing, it will become the norm for you and you will marvel that you ever saw it otherwise.

 

[rusmeister]

Why should you ever pray in a loud voice, unless you are leading others in prayer?

 

[dzheremi]

Is praying out loud the same as praying with a loud voice? Maybe I've misunderstood what is meant here.

 

[Not David]

Is praying out loud the same as praying with a loud voice? Maybe I've misunderstood what is meant here.

Aren't hymns prayers? So when we sing them, aren't we praying aloud?

 

[dzheremi]

That was my thinking, but maybe that's not what the OP meant.

 

[Julian of Norwich]

When I was a little girl ALL women, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, protestant, had to wear a head covering in church! I wish that were not an admonition of Paul's that was thrown out with the feminist movement. (I'm glad the Orthodox didn't throw it out! And some in the Roman Catholic Church are coming back to it, but not many.) At least where I live, I've never been to a protestant church where any of the women veil. I don't understand it!

While I was in the Roman Catholic
church I tried veiling, but like you, felt that it was not a sign of humility now, but a distraction at best. Sad.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

God used my curly hair as a definite hook

even though I am a guy chiming in, but it sounds like two hooks God is using to draw you into Orthodoxy.

 

[ArmyMatt]

View attachment 272090 God used my curly hair as a definite hook

I can see that

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

one of the other women will simply offer her a veil from a little basket that is on their side of the church, if she doesn't grab one herself first.

And thats the story of how lice spread

I am curious about your thoughts and especially experiences from women, on praying and wearing a veil. Personally, I have always wished that I could wear a veil in church (Baptist church), but haven't done so because it would draw attention to me and so, be the opposite, imo, of humility. When I went to Vespers and was able to wear a veil and for the first time, was able to be in church while still feeling the intimacy that I feel while praying alone. I am curious if other women have had a similar experience with wearing a veil.
FYI, I have long, curly red hair and since I can remember, it's been the thing which other's seem to define me by and mention when meeting me, this has caused me to feel self-conscious about my hair. So, I guess I am wondering if this is an experience many women have or if it's just me.

A related issue for me, is that I don't feel comfortable praying out loud in front of people. The feeling to me is similar to the veil thing, where it feels like a breach of intimacy to pray to God out loud in front of others. (There have been a couple of exceptions, where I have felt comfortable praying out loud with another woman).
In the (protestant) churches I've attended, there has been pressure for me to pray out loud and I don't know if the right thing to do is to push myself to pray out loud or if my cautious feeling is from God. I would appreciate your thoughts.

Jokes aside, i too consider it beautiful when i see young, devoted women honoring God by wearing veil.

It gives me hope for the church and the world when people actually take their faith seriously.
If it helps, you should be aware that it comforts others to see such faith in action.

Reverence is in massive decline in the west, and we christians needs to take it back.
Kneeling, crossing oneself and veils are great symbolism. The same goes for wearing crucifixes etc.

That being said it sounds like fr. Matt is onto something. Are you sure you're not being called to the church of the East?

 

[Brighid]

And thats the story of how lice spread



Jokes aside, i too consider it beautiful when i see young, devoted women honoring God by wearing veil.

It gives me hope for the church and the world when people actually take their faith seriously.
If it helps, you should be aware that it comforts others to see such faith in action.

Reverence is in massive decline in the west, and we christians needs to take it back.
Kneeling, crossing oneself and veils are great symbolism. The same goes for wearing crucifixes etc.

That being said it sounds like fr. Matt is onto something. Are you sure you're not being called to the church of the East?

I'm sure I am being called. Unfortunately, I don't have the agreement of my husband at this time. He seems to be agreeable to my attending Vespers services and I am grateful for that! Praying that God makes a way for me to join the Church.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

I'm sure I am being called. Unfortunately, I don't have the agreement of my husband at this time. He seems to be agreeable to my attending Vespers services and I am grateful for that! Praying that God makes a way for me to join the Church.

Ahh, that might turn out difficult. As a single male, I tend to assume my own freedom to be a general rule. I apologize for that. My point of view is further fueled by the massive ideological pressure on individual autonomy, which dominates the Scandinavian culture. So you should read, and dissect my post critically.


Its a difficult position you're in. On one hand you're supposed to obey your husband, and assuming he's a Christian that probably means to attend his protestant church with him. Obeying a good husband is a christian virtue.

On the other hand its uncool to lay restrictions on ones wife's spiritual needs, and spiritual life. This makes it very difficult.

Religious freedom is a human right too. That being said the UN is not our moral compass anyway, for good of reasons.

Ive heard others in a similar position as you find yourself in. Some of them have pushed their convertion through at the expense of matrimonial harmony. None of them have actually been divorced over it, but its not ideal.

Others see it as a call to suffer for the sake of ones familiy, and the world in general. If one suffers, and accept the cross given to oneself it might radiate some key aspects of imitatio Christi.

This light of faithfulness in the midst of a familiy may melt your spouses heart towards Christ. Perhaps it leads to a family convertion when the time is right. God works in truely mysterious ways sometimes.

Perhaps you should offer if up to Christ. I dont know. Its a difficult place to be in.
Let me add you to my prayers.

If i could get your husbands first name? If so i can pray for the softening of his heart.
If youre uncomfortable with this you could either send it to me by pm, or give me a nickname he goes by or something?

God bless your hearts desires. May the light of the holy Spirit enlighten your soul.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Aren't hymns prayers? So when we sing them, aren't we praying aloud?

That's something I can't bring myself to do in church. I always mouth the words and think them but never speak the words outloud...

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

That's something I can't bring myself to do in church. I always mouth the words and think them but never speak the words outloud...

So you're a bit selfconscious, its nothing wrong about that. People are different. Some whisper their prayers, and some pray loudly.

Personally im leaning towards silence myself, but ive grown more comfortable with group prayers in recent years.
Ive been blessed by being a contemporary of a devote, and saint like old lady.
She never spoke loudly, and prayed with her heart and a low voice.

She followed Christ as a obedient, and silent disciple. She had a great relationship with the blessed virgin. I believe this shaped her to become more like the Theotokos herself.
She was a Franciscan lady, and part of the roman church's third order.

I remember that she came to mass one cold, wintery day without her gloves on. I asked her why she'd left her home without them (assuming she could be suffering from dementia, or forgetfulness).
She replied that she had passed through a gypsy- woman on her way to church.
This beggar had been sitting out in the winter cold without gloves, so she gave her her own pair of gloves.

She needed them more than i did, she said. She saw the face of her redeemer in that poor beggars face.

She often invited beggars to her appartment for dinner because, as she said -" they were starving".

Her daughter grew very concerned by this. She feared that some would take advantage of her mom's good nature, and good heart. I understand her daughters fears. She was a sitting duck, and a lot of beggars are fully capable of robbing a sweet old lady like her.

Her mom though, wouldn't listen. She had to feed the hungry. Christ preached this, and she had to obey his word.

In desperation, her daughter called the parish priest (another great man), and asked him to speak to her mom. This too was in vain.
The priest did, but this old lady was persistent.
This was the price of being a disciple of Christ, and a Franciscan she said.

Well, she passed i 2017, and she made a real imprint on me. She died of natural causes at the age of 84.

The reason I'm talking about her is because this woman was truly a saint. She followed Christ to the ends of the world, and now she's with him in eternity.
She never spoke behind someone's back. She was never drawing attention to herself, and she prayed and sung silently.

Being vocal and extroverted is not equal to being holy. Real sainthood comes through silence and wisdom. Like a sheep. Its imitating Christ that leads us to paradise.

 

[Brighid]

Thank you, I appreciate your prayers! My husband's name is James and my name is Heather.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Straight up Samson kind of stuff. Outrageous, ostentatious, courageous!

I can see that