Learning About Women

har_habayit

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As a Christian guy, I have entertained the thought of being married one day. As such, I have observed the behavior of women in the church. I think women outside the church share many of the characteristics, but to a much lesser degree and since they don't know Christ, there is a higher level of unpredictability.

I have the following basic observations.

1) Women are far more social than men generally are. I know very few men who like socializing, shooting the breeze, and being at parties just for the sake of being in social settings. Women actually look for ways to be social and part of an interconnected community ALL the time. Married men can get frustrated sometimes because women want to go socialize even on off days, where a man feels it is perfectly fine to spend an off day recharging, which usually means just doing the house chores and sitting on the sofa watching TV. I have heard this described as the "comfort idol." A lot of guys have this.

Because women are incredibly social and community minded, it follows that a man who is good socially and who is plugged into a community has a far higher likelihood of getting married. In fact, the final test that is often applied to a man, whether in a Christian or non-Christian context, is the woman asking other people who know the man about him. Women value the opinions of others in the community who know the man, and even a man that she believes is good but who others don't like is unlikely to move to the next stage with her.

The above assessment is definitely true of her friends and people in the church or community who know him well. She has to know that the people she respects have a positive view of him.

2) Women are more intentionally handy than men and often build things and are often very busy around the house. Since they value the appearance of their home and its functionality as well as its comfort, they are more likely to be intentional about how it is designed and the functionality of their living space. A lot of guys are just OK with a roof over their heads, a bed, and some food in the refrigerator.

A similar point on this one is that women are craving men who are handy. I have heard women say multiple times in my experience that a man being handy is one of the most important characteristics that they look for. For some, it is almost the primary thing they look for, and if a man doesn't know how to fix things and do projects, they won't date him.

3) Women like men who are brave and take risks.

4) As women are not "over thinkers", they are more spontaneous, and men who live in their heads are generally not going to do well. If a man finds himself overprocessing, he might want to get help for that to the extent possible if he wants to live with a woman. Partially, this is related to enjoying life. Men who are constantly analyzing and processing everything happening and that has happened is probably not enjoying life. Women live in the realm of spontaneity and they appreciate men who do the same.

Finally, I have to reiterate point one. If a man is not social and if he generally avoids social gatherings when he can, he's probably going to struggle in the department of the opposite gender. Women love to be a part of social circles. I feel like women sometimes see themselves as part of an interconnected whole, while a lot of men, especially men who isolate, view themselves as individuals who can use the world to get what they need from it, and then retreat into their private lives.

I hope this observation helps somebody.
 
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MForbes

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As a Christian guy, I have entertained the thought of being married one day. As such, I have observed the behavior of women in the church. I think women outside the church share many of the characteristics, but to a much lesser degree and since they don't know Christ, there is a higher level of unpredictability.

I have the following basic observations.

1) Women are far more social than men generally are. I know very few men who like socializing, shooting the breeze, and being at parties just for the sake of being in social settings. Women actually look for ways to be social and part of an interconnected community ALL the time. Married men can get frustrated sometimes because women want to go socialize even on off days, where a man feels it is perfectly fine to spend an off day recharging, which usually means just doing the house chores and sitting on the sofa watching TV. I have heard this described as the "comfort idol." A lot of guys have this.

Because women are incredibly social and community minded, it follows that a man who is good socially and who is plugged into a community has a far higher likelihood of getting married. In fact, the final test that is often applied to a man, whether in a Christian or non-Christian context, is the woman asking other people who know the man about him. Women value the opinions of others in the community who know the man, and even a man that she believes is good but who others don't like is unlikely to move to the next stage with her.

The above assessment is definitely true of her friends and people in the church or community who know him well. She has to know that the people she respects have a positive view of him.

2) Women are more intentionally handy than men and often build things and are often very busy around the house. Since they value the appearance of their home and its functionality as well as its comfort, they are more likely to be intentional about how it is designed and the functionality of their living space. A lot of guys are just OK with a roof over their heads, a bed, and some food in the refrigerator.

A similar point on this one is that women are craving men who are handy. I have heard women say multiple times in my experience that a man being handy is one of the most important characteristics that they look for. For some, it is almost the primary thing they look for, and if a man doesn't know how to fix things and do projects, they won't date him.

3) Women like men who are brave and take risks.

4) As women are not "over thinkers", they are more spontaneous, and men who live in their heads are generally not going to do well. If a man finds himself overprocessing, he might want to get help for that to the extent possible if he wants to live with a woman. Partially, this is related to enjoying life. Men who are constantly analyzing and processing everything happening and that has happened is probably not enjoying life. Women live in the realm of spontaneity and they appreciate men who do the same.

Finally, I have to reiterate point one. If a man is not social and if he generally avoids social gatherings when he can, he's probably going to struggle in the department of the opposite gender. Women love to be a part of social circles. I feel like women sometimes see themselves as part of an interconnected whole, while a lot of men, especially men who isolate, view themselves as individuals who can use the world to get what they need from it, and then retreat into their private lives.

I hope this observation helps somebody.
You are making this WAY more complicated than you need to. :doh:
 
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har_habayit

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You are making this WAY more complicated than you need to. :doh:
Hi, thanks for your response. What exactly do you suggest?

I think there are good general guidelines as to what a person should be if they want to attract the opposite gender. There are also reliable stereotypes about each gender that a person can learn from. If not, there would not be entire books written on this subject across the Christian world.

There's nothing wrong from making observations in life and then sharing them. It's much of what scientists and psychologists do.

Since you seem to think that I don't need to make generalizations, which are healthy, what exactly do you recommend that I do?

P.S. Just because a generalization is not true 20% of the time, does not mean those observations are invalid. Generalizations and stereotypes are a healthy way to get through life. Without having some general rules about what to expect from people, you're not going to get far.

Let's see some actual solutions.
 
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Hermit76

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As a Christian guy, I have entertained the thought of being married one day. As such, I have observed the behavior of women in the church. I think women outside the church share many of the characteristics, but to a much lesser degree and since they don't know Christ, there is a higher level of unpredictability.

I have the following basic observations.

1) Women are far more social than men generally are. I know very few men who like socializing, shooting the breeze, and being at parties just for the sake of being in social settings. Women actually look for ways to be social and part of an interconnected community ALL the time. Married men can get frustrated sometimes because women want to go socialize even on off days, where a man feels it is perfectly fine to spend an off day recharging, which usually means just doing the house chores and sitting on the sofa watching TV. I have heard this described as the "comfort idol." A lot of guys have this.

Because women are incredibly social and community minded, it follows that a man who is good socially and who is plugged into a community has a far higher likelihood of getting married. In fact, the final test that is often applied to a man, whether in a Christian or non-Christian context, is the woman asking other people who know the man about him. Women value the opinions of others in the community who know the man, and even a man that she believes is good but who others don't like is unlikely to move to the next stage with her.

The above assessment is definitely true of her friends and people in the church or community who know him well. She has to know that the people she respects have a positive view of him.

2) Women are more intentionally handy than men and often build things and are often very busy around the house. Since they value the appearance of their home and its functionality as well as its comfort, they are more likely to be intentional about how it is designed and the functionality of their living space. A lot of guys are just OK with a roof over their heads, a bed, and some food in the refrigerator.

A similar point on this one is that women are craving men who are handy. I have heard women say multiple times in my experience that a man being handy is one of the most important characteristics that they look for. For some, it is almost the primary thing they look for, and if a man doesn't know how to fix things and do projects, they won't date him.

3) Women like men who are brave and take risks.

4) As women are not "over thinkers", they are more spontaneous, and men who live in their heads are generally not going to do well. If a man finds himself overprocessing, he might want to get help for that to the extent possible if he wants to live with a woman. Partially, this is related to enjoying life. Men who are constantly analyzing and processing everything happening and that has happened is probably not enjoying life. Women live in the realm of spontaneity and they appreciate men who do the same.

Finally, I have to reiterate point one. If a man is not social and if he generally avoids social gatherings when he can, he's probably going to struggle in the department of the opposite gender. Women love to be a part of social circles. I feel like women sometimes see themselves as part of an interconnected whole, while a lot of men, especially men who isolate, view themselves as individuals who can use the world to get what they need from it, and then retreat into their private lives.

I hope this observation helps somebody.
Your observations must be related to a specific culture. This is not at all what I have experienced in 27 years of marriage. I think you run the risk of talking yourself into despising women based on your own calloused observations.
May I ask where you are from?
 
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har_habayit

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I disagree. You are generalising. All women are individuals and are all different. There are many women who are completely different to how you described, I’m one of them.

I understand. Any observation in life will be a generalization. There are men who love to pick flowers, get in touch with their feelings, and do arts and crafts. They are not the majority. It doesn't mean that a generalization about men cannot be made.

I understand from you saying that you're not like the women I described, that a) you don't really care about social life, b) that a guy being handy is not important to you, c) you don't care if a guy is brave or takes risks, and d) you are an "over thinker" and a "ruminator", and not only this, but it doesn't bother you that a man you're interested in is, too.

Based on that criteria, I would definitely say that you are an outlier among the majority of women that I've met.
 
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har_habayit

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Your observations must be related to a specific culture. This is not at all what I have experienced in 27 years of marriage. I think you run the risk of talking yourself into despising women based on your own calloused observations.
May I ask where you are from?
I'm from the USA. As for "despising women", that kind of sucks to be characterized that way, since I went OVER THE TOP in my post to be respectful of women. They are social, handy, admire bravery, and are interconnected. Man, you guys can be twisted.
 
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Hermit76

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I'm from the USA. As for "despising women", that kind of sucks to be characterized that way, since I went OVER THE TOP in my post to be respectful of women. They are social, handy, admire bravery, and are interconnected. Man, you guys can be twisted.
I didn't mean to offend. My observation is summed up in your last deduction. You think that a non-social man is doomed to not find a spouse. This is very negative regarding females. There are plenty of introverted females that love staying home. My wife is not very social and prefers to stay home while I, at times, love socializing. We get along well but don't fit the absolutes of your observation. I think Christian personalities are much more diverse within genders than you admit. Maybe your research pool is too narrow?
 
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har_habayit

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I didn't mean to offend. My observation is summed up in your last deduction. You think that a non-social man is doomed to not find a spouse. This is very negative regarding females. There are plenty of introverted females that love staying home. My wife is not very social and prefers to stay home while I, at times, love socializing. We get along well but don't fit the absolutes of your observation. I think Christian personalities are much more diverse within genders than you admit. Maybe your research pool is too narrow?
Sir, I was not dealing in absolutes. It can't be assumed that there are cases that don't fit the rule?

I don't understand how a man who is not social not finding a spouse is offensive to women. Can you explain?

As for there being exceptions, that is not the argument. An observation that is true at least 50% of the time for me is a valid observation. But obviously I'm not getting a lot of agreement on that, and that is ok. Any observation can be shot down simply because 20% of the time, it's not true.
 
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har_habayit

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Maybe your research pool is too narrow?
Admittedly, my research pool involves single Christian women between 30 and 50. I am a single man in my late 30's, so obviously that is the demographic I most often interact with, because I have also been in singles groups at churches. I have also been in a lot of men's only groups at churches, and I feel I can make pretty reliable observations about that group, too. Such as, 80% of men in men's groups have a great deal of difficulty opening up emotionally until at least six months into the group, and even then in a very, very closed setting. That is a valid observation and I won't walk it back.
 
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Hermit76

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Admittedly, my research pool involves single Christian women between 30 and 50. I am a single man in my late 30's, so obviously that is the demographic I most often interact with, because I have also been in singles groups at churches. I have also been in a lot of men's only groups at churches, and I feel I can make pretty reliable observations about that group, too. Such as, 80% of men in men's groups have a great deal of difficulty opening up emotionally until at least six months into the group, and even then in a very, very closed setting. That is a valid observation and I won't walk it back.
Again, I don't mean any offense. One thing I have noticed in church groups is that they become quite cliquish. They attract people of similar personalities. Christianity as a whole is much more diverse. Also, I have found that once I left Protestantism for Orthodoxy the diversity became a little more noticeable. I believe this is because the congregations are less personality driven. (Although personality driven parishes exist in Orthodoxy).
 
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2PhiloVoid

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As a Christian guy, I have entertained the thought of being married one day. As such, I have observed the behavior of women in the church. I think women outside the church share many of the characteristics, but to a much lesser degree and since they don't know Christ, there is a higher level of unpredictability.

I have the following basic observations.

1) Women are far more social than men generally are. I know very few men who like socializing, shooting the breeze, and being at parties just for the sake of being in social settings. Women actually look for ways to be social and part of an interconnected community ALL the time. Married men can get frustrated sometimes because women want to go socialize even on off days, where a man feels it is perfectly fine to spend an off day recharging, which usually means just doing the house chores and sitting on the sofa watching TV. I have heard this described as the "comfort idol." A lot of guys have this.

Because women are incredibly social and community minded, it follows that a man who is good socially and who is plugged into a community has a far higher likelihood of getting married. In fact, the final test that is often applied to a man, whether in a Christian or non-Christian context, is the woman asking other people who know the man about him. Women value the opinions of others in the community who know the man, and even a man that she believes is good but who others don't like is unlikely to move to the next stage with her.

The above assessment is definitely true of her friends and people in the church or community who know him well. She has to know that the people she respects have a positive view of him.

2) Women are more intentionally handy than men and often build things and are often very busy around the house. Since they value the appearance of their home and its functionality as well as its comfort, they are more likely to be intentional about how it is designed and the functionality of their living space. A lot of guys are just OK with a roof over their heads, a bed, and some food in the refrigerator.

A similar point on this one is that women are craving men who are handy. I have heard women say multiple times in my experience that a man being handy is one of the most important characteristics that they look for. For some, it is almost the primary thing they look for, and if a man doesn't know how to fix things and do projects, they won't date him.

3) Women like men who are brave and take risks.

4) As women are not "over thinkers", they are more spontaneous, and men who live in their heads are generally not going to do well. If a man finds himself overprocessing, he might want to get help for that to the extent possible if he wants to live with a woman. Partially, this is related to enjoying life. Men who are constantly analyzing and processing everything happening and that has happened is probably not enjoying life. Women live in the realm of spontaneity and they appreciate men who do the same.

Finally, I have to reiterate point one. If a man is not social and if he generally avoids social gatherings when he can, he's probably going to struggle in the department of the opposite gender. Women love to be a part of social circles. I feel like women sometimes see themselves as part of an interconnected whole, while a lot of men, especially men who isolate, view themselves as individuals who can use the world to get what they need from it, and then retreat into their private lives.

I hope this observation helps somebody.

I think you're somewhat right in the generalizing you're doing in your social observations. Just keep in mind, though, it may turn out that the one woman you end up meeting and emotionally bonding with may be of a personality type that defies these generalizations.

Otherwise, those are some useful points for us guys to keep in mind.
 
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Sunflower39

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I understand. Any observation in life will be a generalization. There are men who love to pick flowers, get in touch with their feelings, and do arts and crafts. They are not the majority. It doesn't mean that a generalization about men cannot be made.

I understand from you saying that you're not like the women I described, that a) you don't really care about social life, b) that a guy being handy is not important to you, c) you don't care if a guy is brave or takes risks, and d) you are an "over thinker" and a "ruminator", and not only this, but it doesn't bother you that a man you're interested in is, too.

Based on that criteria, I would definitely say that you are an outlier among the majority of women that I've met.
Hi Josef,

I saw that you said you are from the US. I am from the UK and I do find Americans a lot more sociable than us Brits in general anyway, even the men! I am basing that on my experience of visiting the US twice. Never have I had so many random people approach me and start a conversation with me and that doesn’t happen over here very often. Sorry to jump to conclusions in my earlier post, I guess you are speaking from your own observations and you didn’t mean to offend anyone but be aware that it probably varies from place to place.

It probably varies from church to church too. I attend an Anglican Church and I would say that there are equal numbers of men and woman who choose to stay behind after the service and talk to others. I do this sometimes as I feel that I should make an effort but other times, I leave straight after the service.

That’s right . I don’t really have much of a social life but that suits me just fine. I have a few close friends but mostly, I enjoy being with my family and I also enjoy my own company. I am married and I wouldn’t describe my husband as ‘handy’ , but that’s fine because I feel that he loves me, respects me and he works hard for our family. He encourages me and motivates me to achieve my personal goals and I really appreciate him. I would definitely describe myself as an ‘over-thinker’ and my husband is too but we actually have very interesting conversations at times!
 
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Chesterton

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1) Women are far more social than men generally are. I know very few men who like socializing, shooting the breeze, and being at parties just for the sake of being in social settings.
A friend and I once drove non-stop from the middle of New Mexico to the middle of Texas, I forget exactly, something like a 12-14 hour drive. Aside from when we took gas/restroom breaks, we never spoke a word to each other. No radio either. It was wonderful, very contemplative. :)

Then there was that time Peter thought he was a woman and "just wanted to talk":

 
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