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Featured Thoughts on weed?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Mizm, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good point. Most of the medical marijuana, almost all actually, is bogus. You have a splinter and ask for a pot prescription and the Dr grants it. It's all part of a process to make it legal but seem like something else. Actually it might as well be completely legal if a Doc will prescribe it for anything...the only difference, is everyone gets a cut of the money.
     
  2. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Yes...I know this for a fact because I HAVE BEEN the one passing medications on a mental health ward. No, we don't pass narcotics like candy and IF a patient has a narcotic as an option, it is because they have a medically verified pain need. Giving it for depression is not EVER a reason. We actually don't pass very many narcotics at all on a psych unit...all low levels if given. If there is a severe pain issue, then the patient is considered in need of medical care before psychiatric care and will be transferred to a medical unit until they once again qualify for the mental health unit. You must be considered medically stable to be on a mental health floor. (If they have extreme psychiatric issues and are on the medical unit, they will be assigned a sitter to be with them 24 hours a day.)

    My credentials are nursing license and experience as a mental health nurse working on a mental health unit (as well, as a medical nurse).

    Narcotics are only for pain relief and now this is starting to be limited to acute pain for a very limited time period. Appropriate medications for the depressed include anti-psychotics, antidepressants, and other mood stabilizers like gabapentin. I doubt that any psych unit is giving narcotics for any mental health issue because the joint commission would shut them down in a heart beat.
     
  3. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    I have had a 18 year old patient who had a medical marijuana card but he couldn't tell me what was the medical condition it was prescribed for..... "uh, maybe my bad back". The gentleman had no back diagnosis and showed no evidence of back pain for his stay even though he got no marijuana or pain meds. There are doctors who just hand these out for money. He was physically a healthy teenager.
     
  4. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    For me there was nothing but depression, the type we feel when coming off a narcotic after having to be dependent for a time. That never went away even after off it for a long time. One almost has to feel it to get it.

    We ask God to fix it, he doesn't. We live right and make sure everything is in place...still nothing, so we do what we must. In my case maybe it was him saying you need to deal with the root of the problem, I am, and I'll see how it goes. But in the meantime, regardless of what I tried, the problem was so bad, I wasn't dealing with anything, much less a court battle that I'd rather not go into, so again, I do/did what I must.

    So far these problems combined have gotten me right with him, a place I will most likely be for the rest of my life so...how bad can the thorn in my side be? :)
     
  5. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did you read the other links I posted?
     
  6. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Um...this isn't a study. It is one person's personal story...which I doubt because if he was that depressed where no medications worked he would be in-patient and most likely suicidal, not flying all around the world. He may be high and feels better because he is high and likes being high. That doesn't mean that he isn't depressed. Also, tolerance is a normal and expected part of using narcotics so him saying that he hasn't any tolerance level isn't likely anymore than someone claiming that they don't need air to breath anymore. Notice, he didn't give the name of the German doctor or all the studies published by this doctor showing evidence of his miraculous treatment of depression.
     
  7. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'll look for more later...are you saying narcotics don't work for depression as well it's not prescribed? And yes that was one mans story but still makes my point. It may not be main stream, but it does happen. And unless someone lied to me about the mental health clinic, what I told you was true.

    In my case, with a pretty fair problem with the residuals of Polio, I don't bother with anything else because Tramadol works wonders for both pain and depression. IOW, I have to take it anyway for pain so why bother with an antidepressant?
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  8. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Did you read the article? The article is written by a doctor who says this study that says this is garbage and the article is telling why it is bunk to believe that opioids improve depression. The last two sentences in the article are "Yet somehow the conclusion is: “these results support the hypothesis of a significant role of opioid dysregulation in major depression and the therapeutic potential of opioid modulation.” I think not."
     
  9. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Did I miss addressing any other links that you posted? It is sometimes hard to go back and find these.
     
  10. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Because tramadol doesn't treat depression...and it isn't a narcotic. It is considered an narcotic-like pain medication and recently was reclassified as a schedule 4 medication like narcotics because of its high risk for addiction. It acts like many narcotics on the body. If your depression is related to chronic pain, then treating pain might have the residual effect of also treating depression because it removed the cause of depression. Post-polio problems can be very painful.

    Narcotics do not treat depression. That is an inappropriate use of this class of medication. Narcotics are used to treat pain and are now being monitored very carefully when being used for this reason because of the problem of opioid abuse in the US. Even in the hospital (medical/post surgical unit), I am not being allowed to give them as often or in as high of doses and I was a couple years ago.

    And since the letter "testimony" doesn't even list the name of the doctor doing this "new" research, this is as valid as proof of anything as the 18 year old with the medical marijuana card who didn't even know why he had it. Pay some people enough and they will prescribe anything you want...even if it is inappropriate or will kill you. They don't care about anything but their pocket books. People who are high tend to think they are happy while they are high...which is also why so many people think marijuana "cures" everything and anything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2017
  11. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No...my mistake, but glad you posted that. I don't care who he is or what his credentials, his comment is 100% bunk,... narcotics improve depression drastically and immediately.

    I have to wonder if these people/doctors have even been depressed or other experiences one almost needs to make good decisions? I had a registered nurse tell me that No One could get off narcotics on their own. That made me realize even the professionals have their delusions from paranoia and lack of experience. And that's not to say there are no good doctors, but that they aren't up to par at times.

    With narcotics there is no waiting around for "try this" "well then try that" for depression and "if that doesn't work your just going to have hope the placebo effect kicks in or you're out of luck". It may not be the best long term cure but no one can tell me opiates don't work wonders for depression.

    I've talked to people that said the normal cures never worked but a very small amount and that they are at least able to barely hang on now. I though to myself these poor people are likely only barely hanging on because of the placebo effect and the $%%$& Doctor won't get on the ball and give them some real relief.

    In your experience is depression *always* curable with antidepressants? And have you ever been depressed? I think it's fair to ask if you know what these people are going through as they wait for a cure, and if you have ever actually tried narcotics for depression?

    And sure, because someone has not been in the shoes of a depressed individual that means they should drop out of yjay lime of health care, I'm just saying there are some things some people simply cannot know/understand.

    Sorry to get going as I did, I mean what I say, but don't take it too personally...I've had some bad experiences with doctors.
     
  12. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't think so...it is hard to keep up.
     
  13. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It isn't related to chronic pain but that would probablty be the consensus.

    As far as what Tramadol is, no need to split hairs, I am well aware of what it is and what it does. It's an opioid, not an opiate if I'm not mistaken, a man made version that has pretty much the same properties regardless of them claiming it's not as addictive.

    "Do not" or are not used for such in the main stream?

    I assure you they treat depression and do one heck of a job at it.
     
  14. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    First of all, depression is usually treated and not cured. The goal is maintenance at a functional level with medical and cognitive treatments. Same with most psychiatric diagnosis and many medical ones (diabetes, heart failure, kidney failure, etc...most are not cured but treated).

    And doctors can give wrong diagnosis...even good doctors. And not every medication works the same way on different people.

    However, for something to be considered a valid medical treatment, there has to be evidence that it works and it needs to be evident in a double blind form of study with adequate sampling so that the placebo effect is minimized or eliminated. Someone saying "I'm cured", does not mean they are cured. The problem with narcotic is they hide medical issues and make the brain believe it feels good. Being on a happy high does not mean that you are cured of anything but a sense of reality. However, it also distorts your judgement and makes you dangerous to yourself and those around you (please don't drive a car high, for example...or operate on me...).

    And be careful before you assume that your health care provider has never experience depression or anxiety. Putting a perfect newborn baby in a body bag....performing unsuccessful CPR on a person you just were talking to...finding out that charming person you just admitted has a body full of cancer with no hope of treatment...and the extreme feelings of not being able to help people no matter how hard you try, is a cause of depression, the kind that needs treatment, in many healthcare providers.
     
  15. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    You are being treated for pain...and when the pain is minimized, it makes perfect sense that you won't feel as depressed.

    There is no medical evidence that narcotics treat depression. And until someone provides a valid study that can be replicated that says otherwise, this is the stance of the medical profession. It actually is sort of a worthless thing to study since narcotics are highly addictive and we are trying to minimize their use because of this. What good is trading one psychiatric condition (depression) for another, a narcotic addiction?
     
  16. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    In the US, a doctor could lose his license for prescribing narcotics for non-approved uses like depression. They are a schedule 4 medication and they are monitored very closely now related to the high rate of addiction issue in the US.
     
  17. Kelly McArthur

    Kelly McArthur Member

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    The brain is organic, the marijuana sold these days is pharmacologically manipulated; THC is increased to higher and higher levels and cannabinol, the natural anti psychotic, is decreased causing a greater increase of psychosis. Why have they done this?


    Canada is becoming legal in parts; it's time to stop playing around.

    Marijuana is on the rise for psychosis, fentanyl is causing death, Jesus is the only way.

    Don't let your mind be on drugs. Turn to Jesus Christ and ask him into your life and go the way straight.

    :heart:

    M
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  18. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    If ysomeone is bad enough to need a depot injection, then they don't have a mild form of an psychiatric disease. Also, psychiatric meds should be given with care and closely monitored especially if given to teens or children. I don't know much about the Canadian mental health system, but everyone being given a psychiatric medication should be told not to smoke marijuana or take any herbal or over the counter treatment before talking to their doctor because of significant potential drug interactions. Doctors of any sort don't "push medications" ... they treat illnesses.

    You actually are pushing drugs and foods by telling people to take non-regulated supplements to treat people that you have never even met and have no idea of what co-morbid conditions they may even have. Also, telling someone to take "one pill in the am" isn't appropriate because you don't know the strength of their version of your supplement. One pill is not a dose...how many mgs is. And people are hospitalize for getting too high of various vitamins, minerals, or electrolytes. Too much potassium is just as dangerous as not enough and both cause heart dysrhythmia. Even food sources can be dangerous if take in too high of qualities or by people with specific medical conditions.

    Jesus is the answer but Jesus never promised to cure every human disease on this side of death. Every person does die...and even good Christians die of medical conditions. Being sick is not evidence that someone is not right with God. Jesus provides knowledge to doctors and often heals or treats through healthcare providers hands. It is cruel to lump all people who need psychiatric treatments into a pile of "people who need more God". It isn't Biblical to do so either.

    On any given day, I suspect that there is much more praying going on in a hospital than in most churches. I know I pray at work every day.

    As for reducing grey manner, since grey matter can be measured, can you link your source for this claim.
     
  19. Kelly McArthur

    Kelly McArthur Member

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    Pharmaceutical companies are fast tracking drugs every since the Aid's epidemic, they never retracted so much so that the fish in the Great Lakes are getting sick because the drugs are being peed out and going into the water because they can't clean the drugs out of the water. Grey matter possibly shrinks with anti-psychotics not with marijuana induced psychosis.

    :blueheart:

    M
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
  20. blackribbon

    blackribbon Not a newbie

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    Yes, these are drugs. You take them in pill form, I assume. They are measured in mgs of active ingredients for a reason. And yes, you can overdose on them...

    Can You Overdose on Magnesium?

    Is Taking to Much Fish Oil Dangerous?

    And although it is difficult to overdose on B12 (being a water soluble vitamin, it just makes real expensive pee since you just pee out the extra and it doesn't get stored in the body), it can have adverse affect if you are pregnant. They are not safe for everyone...and the safe dosage would change if someone is 6 years old or an adult.

    I do know. But obviously you don't understand how these supplements work or the dangers while you are busy telling everyone to take them.

    Again, you claim that grey matter shrinks with anti-psychotic drugs ... so link your evidence. Is it possible that the psychiatric illness is what actually might reduce grey matter and not the medications that treat the diseases? I can't even begin to imagine how they can ethically have a study to test this..because that would mean giving psychiatric medication to people who didn't need it...or giving a placebo to someone who the medication could be helping.
     
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