Those who continue in known intentional unrepentant sin, will not ever be saved or go to heaven...?

Monk Brendan

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Those who continue in (or die in) known intentional (willful) unrepentant sin, will not ever be saved, and never were saved and will never go to heaven...?

The "anti-grace" crowd are now touting this, so, what does it mean...? Any and all known sin...? And what does "intentional" or willful mean...? Or what does being unrepentant about it mean...? Does it mean your not currently or maybe in the future "repentant about it or over it", or does it mean you did not completely stop doing it, and never ever did it again after a certain point, kind of thing...?

Or what does any of this mean...?

What about people who refuse to see when they are clearly shown (their sin), and so it remains unknown, but only because they rejected the truth and refused to hear, so what does that mean...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
All I can say is that God is not through with ANY of us yet.
 
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klutedavid

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Those who continue in (or die in) known intentional (willful) unrepentant sin, will not ever be saved, and never were saved and will never go to heaven...?

The "anti-grace" crowd are now touting this, so, what does it mean...? Any and all known sin...? And what does "intentional" or willful mean...? Or what does being unrepentant about it mean...? Does it mean your not currently or maybe in the future "repentant about it or over it", or does it mean you did not completely stop doing it, and never ever did it again after a certain point, kind of thing...?

Or what does any of this mean...?

What about people who refuse to see when they are clearly shown (their sin), and so it remains unknown, but only because they rejected the truth and refused to hear, so what does that mean...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
Hello Neogaia777.

Study each verse below from Hebrews 10 and tell me how you understand verse 26 given the context.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:17
And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
 
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Neogaia777

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Hello Neogaia777.

Study each verse below from Hebrews 10 and tell me how you understand verse 26 given the context.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:17
And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Full knowledge of all of, or the whole truth...?

And about what...? Everything...?

That would be my question anyway...?

Because I think that is impossible for us right now...? Were all at least partially blind...

If I say a cuss word, though I know it's wrong, and did it anyway, do I go to hell...?

Or, if I smoke cigarettes, am I going to hell...?

Or how far do you want to take it...? And who decides...? Us...? Or are we to judge one another in this regard...? Or let God do it...?

Do you know that person's heart, or their personality, or the way they were made, or their history, and "whatever other factors" would be absolutely necessary in any even close to right or good judgement, let alone a perfect one...? Cause if we do not, how can we judge...?

Anyway, just some of my thoughts...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Hello Neogaia777.

Study each verse below from Hebrews 10 and tell me how you understand verse 26 given the context.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:17
And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
And, "willfully"...? What does that mean...? And how can we truly tell or know if we really are or not...? For not all sin that appears to be willful, is really truly willful sometimes... And I would even go as far to say, might be a part of God's will (plan) for you at the time...

Look back at when you used to sin (much more than you do now), and the course your life, and who you are now, or who you became took, because of it/them... Now what if you were to go back and change it...? You'd no longer be who you are or never would have became who you became without it or them...? You pull on even one the threads of the tapestry of you life, and it all unravels...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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Hello Neogaia777.

Study each verse below from Hebrews 10 and tell me how you understand verse 26 given the context.

Hebrews 10:10
By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

Hebrews 10:17
And their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.

Hebrews 10:29
How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Do you think Paul meant that if you ever sin knowingly at all, after committing your life to Christ, that you are forever damned and forever condemned (to hell) after that...? and there is never any more, or any more chance of ever coming back or ever belonging to Christ again after that...? Cause I don't think that's what he meant...? I think Paul would say you were twisting his words...

God Bless!
 
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Basil the Great

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There have been several threads like this one in recent weeks. While the point of this thread and others is an important one, it still needs to be mentioned that only God decides who will and who will not be saved. I think that we should also recognize that all sins are not the same. Some are far more serious than others. Someone addicted to grave sin like adultery or spousal abuse could well be in serious trouble, however.
 
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Neogaia777

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There have been several threads like this one in recent weeks. While the point of this thread and others is an important one, it still needs to be mentioned that only God decides who will and who will not be saved. I think that we should also recognize that all sins are not the same. Some are far more serious than others. Someone addicted to grave sin like adultery or spousal abuse could well be in serious trouble, however.
Could any one of us still even judge them....? Or can only God...?

And are we to determine what sins are worse or better, when there could be, well, no, there is/are factors to be considered that only God knows fully, in a person's individual life, ect...

Were not God, or even gods, so who are we to determine, say so, or judge, or whatever...? Especially when it comes to salvation, or ones own eternal destination, ect...?

God Bless!
 
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Basil the Great

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Yes, there could well be factors in a certain person's life that God might consider when judging an eternal soul. Some have emotional handicaps as a result of trauma experienced as a child, some have physical handicaps, etc.
 
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Neogaia777

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Yes, there could well be factors in a certain person's life that God might consider when judging an eternal soul. Some have emotional handicaps as a result of trauma experienced as a child, some have physical handicaps, etc.
So, should we (judge) or do we have the right to (judge) or not...? When should we or must we judge and when should we not...? and when we must (judge), how are to handle it or view or look at it (our judging)...?

For the record, I only think we should when we must, and that judgement is only to pertain to this life here, and not the life after this for that person...

God Bless!
 
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Toro

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To me, it means that one is in disagreement with God. It isnt that they sin "knowingly" but that they know it to be wrong, yet justify it as acceptable or "good".

For example:

Two people see someone that is not their husband or wife and they think impure thoughts of that person for just a moment.

The one that is "knowingly/willfully" sinning is the one that justifies/agrees with their flesh with such worldly justifications as "Its only natural" "No one is perfect" "Looking isnt the same as touching" ignoring their conscience to the point that they see no wrong in the wickedness they do.

Is it natural? Absolutely, but our hearts are wicked and deceitful. Jeremiah 17:9

Is anyone perfect? No, of course not, but Jesus took sin VERY seriously. If we are to take His name and follow Him, should we not also treat it as serious?

Is looking the same as touching? Depends who you agree with. If you agree with the world looking IS NOT the same as touching and is no big deal. IF you agree with Christ however.... Matthew 5:28.

The one that is in agreement with God, that "it" is sin and does not belong in their life. While they do stumble into sin. It is not in agreement with the world that it is acceptable.(whatever the "willful/known" sin is)

IF one agrees with God and prays that through the Spirit they will be strengthened to over come their sins of today are they not trying to be less like their flesh but to be and become closer to being like Christ?

Does it mean they will ever be perfect while in this flesh? Absolutely not, but it does mean that they are allowing God to clean "the inside of their cup" instead of simply cleaning up their appearance for the praise of men.

The one that justifies their sins as the world does is NO DIFFERENT than Adam, blaming Eve, even blaming God for his own mistake. How repentant is one that blames everyone or everything else to justify themself, instead of truly feeling remorse for a mistake.

"Sorry, I stepped on your toes, but you're the one the one that wore dark shoes into a dark room so it's your fault."

Or

"I'm so sorry, are you okay?"

Which is more remorseful?

We are no more worthy of salvation after a sin than we were before. It is our attitude toward that sin that decides "knowing/willful" from simply falling into a sin.

Peter denied the Lord, true. However I believe that was allowed to happen to show us the difference between the willful sinner and the reentive sinner.

Peter denied Christ repeatedly, sinning .. However that wasnt where his heart was, he knew what he did was wrong and HATED it. After he did, he wept bitterly showing that while he sinned, he didnt want that to be a part of him.

I believe that is to show us that even this act that is to have Jesus deny you before the Father is forgivable, even repeatedly as long as the heart is repentant and longs to be free of that sin.

Why is it forgivable for Peter to deny Him three times? I believe it is because his heart was with Christ, but the fear in his flesh (of death) caused him to commit the sin of denying Christ. (A sin which he clearly overcame after a continued walk with the Lord)

He didnt justify it saying "Well Jesus you said it would happen and you arent wrong so it's your fault."

I do believe however that IF continued justification of sin goes on long enough, that the sin will bring death to a person's conscience or harden their heart and they will feel separate from God.
 
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Neogaia777

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To me, it means that one is in disagreement with God. It isnt that they sin "knowingly" but that they know it to be wrong, yet justify it as acceptable or "good".

For example:

Two people see someone that is not their husband or wife and they think impure thoughts of that person for just a moment.

The one that is "knowingly/willfully" sinning is the one that justifies/agrees with their flesh with such worldly justifications as "Its only natural" "No one is perfect" "Looking isnt the same as touching" ignoring their conscience to the point that they see no wrong in the wickedness they do.

Is it natural? Absolutely, but our hearts are wicked and deceitful. Jeremiah 17:9

Is anyone perfect? No, of course not, but Jesus took sin VERY seriously. If we are to take His name and follow Him, should we not also treat it as serious?

Is looking the same as touching? Depends who you agree with. If you agree with the world looking IS NOT the same as touching and is no big deal. IF you agree with Christ however.... Matthew 5:28.

The one that is in agreement with God, that "it" is sin and does not belong in their life. While they do stumble into sin. It is not in agreement with the world that it is acceptable.(whatever the "willful/known" sin is)

IF one agrees with God and prays that through the Spirit they will be strengthened to over come their sins of today are they not trying to be less like their flesh but to be and become closer to being like Christ?

Does it mean they will ever be perfect while in this flesh? Absolutely not, but it does mean that they are allowing God to clean "the inside of their cup" instead of simply cleaning up their appearance for the praise of men.

The one that justifies their sins as the world does is NO DIFFERENT than Adam, blaming Eve, even blaming God for his own mistake. How repentant is one that blames everyone or everything else to justify themself, instead of truly feeling remorse for a mistake.

"Sorry, I stepped on your toes, but you're the one the one that wore dark shoes into a dark room so it's your fault."

Or

"I'm so sorry, are you okay?"

Which is more remorseful?

We are no more worthy of salvation after a sin than we were before. It is our attitude toward that sin that decides "knowing/willful" from simply falling into a sin.

Peter denied the Lord, true. However I believe that was allowed to happen to show us the difference between the willful sinner and the reentive sinner.

Peter denied Christ repeatedly, sinning .. However that wasnt where his heart was, he knew what he did was wrong and HATED it. After he did, he wept bitterly showing that while he sinned, he didnt want that to be a part of him.

I believe that is to show us that even this act that is to have Jesus deny you before the Father is forgivable, even repeatedly as long as the heart is repentant and longs to be free of that sin.

Why is it forgivable for Peter to deny Him three times? I believe it is because his heart was with Christ, but the fear in his flesh (of death) caused him to commit the sin of denying Christ. (A sin which he clearly overcame after a continued walk with the Lord)

He didnt justify it saying "Well Jesus you said it would happen and you arent wrong so it's your fault."

I do believe however that IF continued justification of sin goes on long enough, that the sin will bring death to a person's conscience or harden their heart and they will feel separate from God.
Yes, I believe you have to "own it" or own up to it, not be blaming others for "your sins" or errors or mistakes, ect, so to speak... and not be trying to justify either the sin or yourself in the sin, and feel sorry to a reasonable degree, and be "repentant" about it/them (sins) for as long as you are in them (which is all throughout this life I believe)... If one is being "honest" that is...

God Bless!
 
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Toro

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Yes, I believe you have to "own it" or own up to it, not be blaming others for "your sins" or errors or mistakes, ect, so to speak... and not be trying to justify either the sin or yourself in the sin, and feel sorry to a reasonable degree, and be "repentant" about it/them (sins) for as long as you are in them (which is all throughout this life I believe)... If one is being "honest" that is...

God Bless!
I believe the amount in which one remains in sin depends on how serious they take their walk with Christ and how their mind has been changed towards sin.

I dont believe that we will ever truly be free of ALL sin while in the flesh, but I do believe we can over come sins. (But there are so many in our heart, we will always have a plank in our eye we have to deal with before we judge the speck in another's eye.)

For example:
I suffer from road rage. Is it right? No. Do I repent and wish that I didnt get angry behind the wheel? Yes

I do believe and have faith that one day I will no longer get angry when someone cuts me off etc.

I will have moved beyond that sin. Does it mean I will be perfect? No, but the sin of getting angry behind the wheel will no longer "master" me and I will have moved on from that.

It's not that I became perfect, but that I over came that sin through prayer to be changed into a closer likeness of Christ to better follow Him and His example, rather than simply accepting my sins as inevitable and content to remain in them.
 
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Dave L

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Many are not saved thinking they are, based on works. And the flesh has an insurmountable task of acting holy when it is not. But in the New Birth we receive a new nature that loves righteousness and hates sin. And so from that point on, most of our fight against sin is in the thought realm. Where the flesh wants us to surrender to it, but our spirit refuses.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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The problem with the previous blood pact with God is that the workers couldn't stay on task. So God made a new one so they couldn't mess it up. The point of the new blood pact is service, i.e. getting the work done. This talk of whether someone is good enough or not is fleshly insecurity speaking.

It is written in Revelation that those who do not overcome X trial will not be harmed by the second death, so some may be saved yet through fire, but their work will get burned.

People are saved by being born again through the Holy Spirit, not by the public opinion poll at the local congregation or the global body as a whole.
 
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FreeGrace2

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There have been several threads like this one in recent weeks. While the point of this thread and others is an important one, it still needs to be mentioned that only God decides who will and who will not be saved.
So true. Salvation is God's plan, not man's plan. Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

I think that we should also recognize that all sins are not the same. Some are far more serious than others. Someone addicted to grave sin like adultery or spousal abuse could well be in serious trouble, however.
Are you suggesting that the title of this thread is true??

That would fly in the face of the Lord Jesus Christ, who taught that He is the One who gives eternal life (John 10:28a), that whoever believes possesses the gift of eternal life (John 5:24, 6:47), and that recipients of eternal life shall never perish (John 10:28b).

So, Jesus Himself gave no conditions for recipients of eternal life to meet in order to never perish.

Simply on the basis of believing in Him for salvation, and therefore being given the gift of eternal life, the believer shall never perish.
 
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Basil the Great

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I am not saying that the title of the thread is true or is not true, I an just saying that this thread and others like do serve as a warning to all of us. However, I am inclined to think that we should not take them too literally.
 
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Those who continue in (or die in) known intentional (willful) unrepentant sin, will not ever be saved, and never were saved and will never go to heaven...?

The "anti-grace" crowd are now touting this, so, what does it mean...? Any and all known sin...? And what does "intentional" or willful mean...? Or what does being unrepentant about it mean...? Does it mean your not currently or maybe in the future "repentant about it or over it", or does it mean you did not completely stop doing it, and never ever did it again after a certain point, kind of thing...?

Or what does any of this mean...?

What about people who refuse to see when they are clearly shown (their sin), and so it remains unknown, but only because they rejected the truth and refused to hear, so what does that mean...?

Comments...?

God Bless!
I believe the elephant in the room is "hypocrisy". Are you a hypocrite or are you righteous? I myself was a hypocrite for quite a while! I rationalized my fornication while my mother a devout Christian judged my action as being one of a hypocritical Christian. I really did not see it. I just assumed God would forgive me and I would go on my merry way. It was not until the person, who is not really a Christian, after I preached to him about Jesus, that he said to me "how can you call yourself a Christian and have relations with me"? Are't you being a hypocrite? WOW! that was a tone of truth laid out before me. I was convicted right then and there. Yes, we are still together minus the relations. We plan to marry. So now that I laid that out....."if you love me you will keep my commandments". I do love HIM.
Blessings
 
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