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Featured Those who continue in known intentional unrepentant sin, will not ever be saved or go to heaven...?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Those who continue in (or die in) known intentional (willful) unrepentant sin, will not ever be saved, and never were saved and will never go to heaven...?

    The "anti-grace" crowd are now touting this, so, what does it mean...? Any and all known sin...? And what does "intentional" or willful mean...? Or what does being unrepentant about it mean...? Does it mean your not currently or maybe in the future "repentant about it or over it", or does it mean you did not completely stop doing it, and never ever did it again after a certain point, kind of thing...?

    Or what does any of this mean...?

    What about people who refuse to see when they are clearly shown (their sin), and so it remains unknown, but only because they rejected the truth and refused to hear, so what does that mean...?

    Comments...?

    God Bless!
     
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  2. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Frankly it indicates those who espouse this have yet to learn more about God’s Grace.
     
  3. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    It is best to ponder on what inside of our hearts will be in Heaven when we die. Love for God will be, so will thankfulness and joy but wilful sin wont be present any longer, no lie will remain we will be completely holy and loving - life in sin will be gone forever in everybody's heart.

    Wilful sin cannot be saved we need to be saved from it. According to Hebrews 4:12-13 the Word will cut it out of our spirit on the day we have to give an account of our deeds.

    So when a believer struggles with wilful sin, she or he can be of good courage for faith in God's love wins from wilful sin sooner or later, but for the wilful sinner it is a grim reminder that those who sin will die and that Scripture's truths can never be broken.

    Peace.

    Hebrews 4:12-13
    For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
     
  4. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

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    All those who continue in known unrepentant sin will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

    According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) is the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNES *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

    According to God's WORD all those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50.

    RIGHTOUESNESS FROM THE INSIDE OUT

    JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

    If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT.

    Those who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN do not KNOW God and need to be BORN AGAIN *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 3:3-10. Sin is the transgression of any one of God's 10 commadments *JAMES 2:10-11. We need to be BORN AGAIN to love *ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12; MATTHEW 22:36-40. But how can we love with a broken heart *JOHN 5:42; JEREMIAH 17:9-10?

    Truly, truly, I say unto you unless a man is born again he will not see the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. If we are not BORN of the SPIRIT we cannot follow God and love has he first loved us *GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 8:13; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12.

    God bless
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Great Job not answering any of the questions in the OP and cutting, copying and pasting things I already heard you say before...

    And no one, not even you, can keep the commandments, not perfectly, ever in this life, especially the Spirit of them, and that's the problem here LGW...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Why do we struggle with it, or against it if it is willful...?

    And, are you saying a person can die in known, intentional, willful, unrepentant sin, or continue in it, till the day they/we die and still be saved...?

    And I ask again about the "known" part, like what if some refuse to know, when they should know, ect...? And about the willful or intentional part...? If we struggle against it, how can it be entirely willful...? And then the "unrepentant" part...? Whether it means to be "repentant" always, or whether it means to completely repent...?

    God Bless!
     
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    How can you judge everyone else by the same high standard (that you do not , not even you, even (can even) keep or live up to) when everyone is different and their lives very different, and all their "stuff" is very different, also...?

    And then talk about "Love"...? Well, I don't want to hear it from you LGW, to me it's an insult...

    I think you need to spend less time posting, and more time just thinking and pondering with God... And "listening" would be an excellent skill for you to learn or master as well... Listening is the beginning of discerning, and discerning even hears what is not being said directly, and tells you the truth of the matter... All of which will make you a far better judge than you are being right now...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  8. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And what about those who consider a thing a sin and condemns his neighbor who does not consider that same thing a sin. (Happy is a man who condemns not himself in that thing that he allows but if he does then it is a sin)
    And when the disciples asked Jesus....if a brother offends me how many times shall I forgive him of the offence 7 times?.....Jesus said no I say 70 times 7.
    So it is easy to conclude that this person is repeatedly offending in this scenario....So the way I see it our Father is not going to instruct us to forgive 70 times 7 when others sin against us and then say but I only forgive once for a given sin. God does not have double standards...He teaches by being the example of what He expects from us.
    And isn't it the Holy Spirit who convicts us in our heart when we do wrong? Leading us into repentance of our sin?
    Now this scripture really gets my thinker going..... My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? …………...in this scripture I ask why would God chasten those who get saved and should be now living sinless for being sinless?:scratch:
    And my Catholic friends would suffer doctrine-shock because there would no longer be any purpose for daily confession.

    Just a few of my thoughts I have had over the years.

    I thank God for His mercy and grace that is new everyday and that as I grow spiritually I become better equipped to resist temptation that would cause me to stumble.
     
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  9. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Jesus said (Matthew 10:33) that He would deny anyone who denied Him, then Peter denies Jesus three times after He said that, and you don't think Peter heard what Jesus said in (Matthew 10:33) and that "that" might have been in his head in the very moments of his denying Him...? And Jesus told Peter ahead of time also, still Peter disobeyed and denied Him anyway...? Then we see Peter sinning that Paul had beef with also...

    The former had to be a known intentional deliberate sin (going against his conscience, and what He knew was right), or what might be termed "deliberate disobedience" I bet he had an inner voice inside his head screaming at him practically not to do it, but he did not listen to it and went against it and against what "he knows" Jesus said... So, do you think we'll see Peter in Heaven...? Did Peter repent of it...? We know he was very sorry, but there may be no way to tell if he actually repented in the way that some people mean, because you can't exactly do or try it again in this case; so as to know if you would have done it differently if given a second chance or something like that...

    I don't think Peter ever denied him ever again though, but I think he did sin against his conscience again, when and where we see Paul talking about it and pointing it out. I think Peter knew what he was doing was wrong from within, or he heard that "voice" from within again, telling him that, but he must have pushed it away, or brushed it aside again, or blew it off again, during or at that time...

    Then he was given a vision by God about this matter...

    Anyway,

    God Bless!
     
  10. Jeshu

    Jeshu Bought by His Blood Supporter

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    Sure the death of sin is what we are after and like i said we can be of good courage if we fight wilful sin. Wilful sin often has to do with the inner division we find within ourselves because of sin. For in my life i have fought some sin for years before God brought it to an end and raised me anew in that part of myself. (Yet at other times i fall for a different sin, maybe a new one, maybe an old one, it doesn't matter, i'm a sinner at heart and easily fall back into my old nature but the battle is to stay out.)

    Some sin are easy to overcome. The Spirit convicts and the heart goes down on its knees. At other times it is not so easy.

    Repentance is always true but maybe not for the whole of our divided self. Maybe only 50 percent of self came along. Or maybe 99.9999999 percent if you are near perfect, but fall you shall sooner or later, because being saved doesn't mean that all sin stops but that we strive to die to it - time and again - and find newness of life in Him - time and again. It is going to remain a constant battle with wrong. Romans 7 is clear as crystal about that.

    Within our hearts we find the goats and the sheep, the saved and unsaved. Election is first of all a question of the heart. True God wants us pure and shall get us there but that is not an easy task we can do in and of ourselves. We need divine intervention! For unless we die we cannot be raised to newness of life - such truths remain always true.

    Some sin are very complex and misunderstood by the sinner because of the lies that they believe about God, themselves and/or others. Then Jesus battles for such a believer, some sin take years to unravel completely and often a lot of struggle comes the fallen sinner's way.

    God's grace eaten and accept after each fall and repentance of sin and the washing away of guilt builds love and admiration in the sinners heart. Something they lack in that part of themselves. Love for God is what a sinner needs to break free from sin. The more grace you eat the more you will love God and the more you will willingly die to wrong.

    Having said this in wilful sin self things are not so good. There is forgiveness if it was the first time but thereafter only to willingly die to yourself in that sin can set you free. This is near impossibly difficult and much of us in wilful sin are completely destroyed - we never do that sin again that is for sure. Jesus saves us from our sin and He works the will and want in our hearts with His love and through His (S)word.

    The wilful sinner is often the strong man of the heart and is always the last one to confess. So glad Jesus chopped his head off in my life but it was years in the making with a lot of suffering and misery. Its best to never be guilty of wilful sin but yes we can be set free and become united again.

    Peace
     
  11. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When I was a very young Christian and new in my walk of righteousness, I would go to church and the pastor would preach a sermon on the very sin I was guilty of that week....whether by thought, by flesh or by disobedience or unforgiveness of others....and he would give an alter call for any person need to rededicate themselves to the Lord, get saved again, or get delivered of backsliding...I would go up every Sunday and cry my eyes out and confess my sin and beg for forgiveness. I guess you might say our church was the fire, hell, and brimstone type of teaching....needless to say I finally gave up and said this Christianity thing is too hard and no matter how hard I try I still mess up...…...
     
  12. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    That's because it's not true Christianity... The ministry of condemnation is not of the Spirit of God or Christ, but another who only wants it to appear to be such (for some pretty twisted reasons and motives too)...

    And Conviction, which is different than condemnation, is the Holy Spirits job and no one else's...

    There is a such thing as having so much sorrow, shame, guilt, regret, remorse, or whatever, over sin or some sins, that you can never escape it or that or those sins ever... There is a such thing as that...

    You want to have Godly sorrow, ect, and not worldly sorrow, ect, and it is or they are different...

    And "the heart is deceitful and treacherous above all things... Who can master it, who can know it", ect... Guard it, keep it under control, ect... If you don't, you'll never get out of sin...

    God Bless!
     
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  13. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It also hinders your relationship with God as a Father.....you are too busy fearing Him as God the punisher.
    I got delivered of that spirit of condemnation one week after another service....I heard the voice of God speak to me for the first time and explained to me He was my Father and loved me more than I could comprehend and that no matter how often I made a mistake if I would obey the convictions of my heart and repent He would forgive me.
    I left that church....lol.....coming to know Him as a loving Father instead of a vengeful God of Wrath was the greatest truth I could have ever found in my life.
     
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  14. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No one ever claimed "never" just repent and they're fine. No they never will if they choose not to repent, but they do have a choice

    Yet another false claim, please showe us where both those claims we ever made.

    There is no anti Grace crowd, we know about grace, and it's part in salvation. It woul help you to stop using those claims to help to trick yourself or others into thinking your way is right because you "claim" our way is to ridiculous to be real. That's exactly how delusions are created.

    Wilful sin is sinning willingly and not by temptation or out of ignorance. Wilful sin is what the man who goes out on the weekends in order to drink and carouse does. He "plans" on it, he "will" do it. It's a normal part of his life, and something he is always up to.. He doesn't repent because repentance means to be sorry for it and attempting to stop, but instead he creates a delusion he can do that and still find heaven because some people say he can...people other than God/Christ, and the bible. And "they" say he can because they like the idea of willful sin as well and allow themselves the luxury of the same delusion.

    Non wilful sin are those that we never plan on doing. Then there is sin of ignorance that is self explanitory.

    Its a lot like, and this is just an extreme for instance. Murder has different degrees, some are not even considered sin. We plan, then lie and wait to kill, then we are guiltily of first degree murder...that's like wilful sin, it is wilful sin. But if we have no intention of doing such a thing but it happens out of rage for instance, at the moment, say we catch someone in the bed with our wife/husband, you never planned it, it's not even something you really want to do at all, but we did it out of anger, at the moment. The latter there might get us in jail for awhile but it won't end in execution or life in prison. In "some" second degree murder cases people just go free after investigation, as their offense was was wrong but under the circumstance very forgivable. Forgivable just as non wilful sin is to God.

    Important question, and if I may honestly ask, please tell me if the following applies to you? The way I'm wording it assumes it does but I don't, it's just a question, and that needs to be clear.

    I think you choose not to understand these things because we've been here before, and it's been explained several time on CF. And the reason you choose not to understand is due to ulterior motive. A motive of choosing to live in some sin or sins and to pretend you don't understand, or to fight the truth as some of you do, in order to attempt to do away with the fact we cannot live in sin, makes you feel less guilty or helps you with the delusion you can do as you want.

    That or we have family members, friends, whoever, who are living in wilful sin, and that worries us so much we need to justify it somehow.

    To your credit, at least you're concerned enough you may be wrong, you keep bringing it up just as others do here. I think they know it's wrong, and it scares them, but they're going to fight having to let go of some wilful sins with every inch of their being because they like them so much.
     
  15. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Can you please define that "Spirit of Condemnation" you mentioned?

    Were you living in sin? You indicated not when you said you repent, all that can be expected by anyone.

    I believe the confusion here is Gods vengeance if we live in constant sin without repentance.
     
  16. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    My power went out here, big storm here right now, doing this from my phone but can't get back on my computer till the power comes back on. So I'll have to get back to this later or then, or if it's off for too long I'm going to bed and will have to get back to this tommorow, as for you guys, have fun and play well together k?

    God Bless!
     
  17. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

    John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

    1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

    From these verses we know that a believer possesses eternal life. It should be obvious that this possession occurs the moment one believes, given what the verses say.

    1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

    In this verse, we see that the receiption of eternal life is expressed as a past tense action.

    John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

    Here we see that Jesus is the One who gives the gift of eternal life. And we know from earlier in John 10 that it is believers who are described as His sheep.

    We also see in v.28 that the direct result of receiving eternal life is to never perish.

    So, based on these clear verses, once a person has believed and therefore received eternal life, they shall never perish.

    Gaining salvation/eternal life is based on faith in Christ, not on lifestyle, works, deeds, etc.

    Therefore, salvation/eternal life is based on what Jesus promises to those He gives the gift of eternal life; eternal security.

    Therefore, sin cannot be an issue regarding entry into heaven.

    There IS a consequence of sinning, however. And that is painful discipline from God, per Heb 12:11. And loss of reward in eternity, per 2 John 8 and Col 3-
    23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters,
    24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.
     
  18. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No human being is saved by their works, but by faith alone.
     
  19. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes it was a daily mental anguish of never being able to be perfect in my walk with God.....and in what I have learned over the years is that Satan sends his demons/spirits to attack in various ways such as condemnation so that you never enjoy your salvation but rather are you are bound in fear of losing it.
     
  20. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No one is expected to be perfect...where did you get that from?
     
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