This might be a long post, but I really need help :(

[cruztacean]

I'd especially like to have feedback from older men, but insight is certainly welcome from anyone.

My husband and I are both diabetic, and he also has heart problems. Maybe it's because he is 19 years older than I am, and therefore pretty much of another generation, but his attitudes toward controlling your eating are extremely negative. Since my recent release from the hospital, the following conversations have ensued:

Me:​

Well, no, eating healthy doesn't mean we have to starve. All we need are a few small changes. We can....(name a few suggestions) Now, can *you* think of any small, tolerable changes we can make?

Him:​

(pause, then in a very bitter, angry tone of voice) We can stop going to the grocery store.

Another conversation, in which my daughter and I and the hospital dietician were discussing recipes containing salsa, ended with my husband saying this:

Him:​

But there's got to be something in salsa that I can't have.​

Me:​

Why do you think that?

Him:​

Because it tastes good. That means I can't have it.

I asked him if he meant that as a joke. He didn't.

His generation grew up on I Love Lucy. Did you see the one where Lucy was trying to lose weight? By suppertime she was weak and dizzy with hunger and constant strenous exercise. They sit down to supper, everybody is feasting, and Lucy is handed a dinner plate with nothing but a lettuce leaf on it. This perfectly sums up that generation's attitude toward healthy eating. It's not supposed to be pleasant, because you're being punished. Punished for what? Well, for letting yourself get fat, of course.

And this is the mentality that Jim is stuck in. Even his own mother (a nurse, by the way) used words like "punishment" and "sacrifice" and also told him that if he took even a bite of something he "shouldn't" have, then he "blew it." He has no concept of just eating a *little bit* of something, and it being OK. To his way of thinking, either it's on your diet or it isn't, and if it tastes good, that's a sure sign it isn't.

I certainly understand the "why" behind it, but it frustrates me to pieces. My mother kind of laughs it off with, "Oh, he's just being a man--sarcastic and grumpy." Well, I didn't think being sarcastic and grumpy was a requirement of being a man, but what concerns me is that this is so typical of so many of our conversations. We'll have a problem, I'll try to generate solutions, and he'll knock every one of them down with a pessimistic comment. After a while I don't even feel like talking to him any more, which of course doesn't help matters any. If I'm in any way upset with him, he'll start talking divorce and saying I just don't want to be around him.

Me:​

Well, no, I don't want a divorce, I just want you to stop the negativity.

Him:​

Oh. So that means you're not happy with me unless I think, act, and talk the way you want me to?

 

[phoebe_20]

Oh, sometimes men gets really tough huh! Anyways, just continue to be patient with him..you said you understand the "why" right? Maybe just let him feel that you care for him, and not just restricting him from eating delicious foods...maybe try a lil' diffrent strategy..like reverse psychology, do you think it would work?

 

[free4all]

Hi cruztacean,

Not sure what feedback you are looking for, other than confirmation that the previous generation didn't know how to eat as healthy as we do. I hope I'm not in the "older men" category, but my parents are within 10 years of your dh's age. And yes, they ate unhealthy for many years. One still does.

Are you the main grocery shopper and cook? If so, you have great control over what you buy and prepare for the family. If you make changes, will he complain? No offense, but by the way you describe him, it sounds like he will find something to complain about anyway. So might as well eat healthy.

Does he prepare some of his own food? If he does and refuses to eat healthy, all you can do is take care of yourself.

I know there are many recipes for healthy foods, although it takes a lot of work to prepare. I wish you well as you make these changes. It's a constant battle at my age, and every little bit helps.

 

[Jesusizthe1]

You can make small changes in the foods you already eat and he may not notice. You could replace regular sour cream for light, or regular cream cheese for light, or try light mayo instead. There are many changes that you can make that he may not even notice.

 

[cruztacean]

Thanks, so far, for the comments.

I should have made myself plainer. The feedback and encouragement I need are more about the negativity than about the healthy eating. The dietary restrictions are not the issue. They are an example of the issue.

I also left off some very important information about my specific problem. I have a depressive illness. Jim and I have been married just over a year. He was not this negative and pessimistic when we were dating; in fact I had been attracted to his sense of humor. But now....

I mentioned "I Love Lucy" before, but Jim reminds me very much lately of another Lucy. I'm thinking about the one from Peanuts. Charlie Brown challenged her just once to smile instead of being so crabby; "I'll bet you've forgotten how." Lucy said, "I have not! Watch this!" Then she scowled, thinking for all the world that she was smiling. She really had forgotten how.

If I were trying to recover from alcoholism, and he kept spiking my drinks, I would not recover very well, would I? Same with his constant barbs. Jim seems determined that if HE is going to be depressed, he's going to make sure I'M depressed right along with him. He is certainly not going to let any positive statement I make, on any subject, pass by without throwing a dart at it. This is what's hurting me, and it's the issue I need help with.

PS. Actually Jim and I are both reaching out for help, which means that I am keeping him updated about this thread. He wants me to be fair and add that he also has a depressive illness. He's right. I should give him equal time.

 

[InTheFlame]

This sounds ridiculously esoteric, but I'd like you to think about it for a while - maybe even try a couple of test positive comments - and see what you come up with.

What reaction is he getting from you, that makes this behaviour worthwhile to him?

 

[BigJimP]

This sounds ridiculously esoteric, but I'd like you to think about it for a while - maybe even try a couple of test positive comments - and see what you come up with.

What reaction is he getting from you, that makes this behaviour worthwhile to him?

It sounds like the question is, "What's the payoff?" Well, when I stay negative, and nothing my wife says or does can bring me out of it, then she gets mad. And that confirms what I think about myself.

Sometimes Raya thinks I'm deliberately trying to make her feel as lousy as I do. I'm not deliberately doing it, but I don't know how to stop. When I say something, I don't stop and think about what effect it's going to have on somebody else. I see it as me expressing my feelings. AND sometimes Raya overanalyzes everything I say, while I'm not analyzing it enough.

If I'm in a bad mood, and she's in a good mood, if we go back and forth enough about it, and eventually she's in a bad mood too, then that means I "won." I convinced her that there is something to be in a bad mood about. I've always had a problem being around happy people when I'm depressed. How dare they enjoy life when I'm so miserable? I get mad at myself because I'm not enjoying life like they are, and then I resent them. I know it's wrong. Also, it seems the older I get, the less there is to be happy about. I develop more and more health problems, I hurt more, and I have more to worry about. I feel less and less useful, because I can't do as many things as I used to. It becomes so frustrating, and the anger comes out of frustration.

 

[InTheFlame]

Jim - thanks for answering.

It sounds as though the two of you are fairly mature (not always the case no matter HOW old people are ) and you usually communicate fairly well... am I right? I mean, if you were both feeling healthy and well, you'd be pleasant and respectful to each other?

I guess the bottom line is... half of the problem is Jim's unhappiness. Is there anything that the two of you can do to get him feeling better about that 'useless' feeling? How about his depression?

And the other half of the problem is Raya's reaction to Jim's negativity. (sorry to be speaking to you two and using the third person... it just gets too confusing for me otherwise ). Raya... if you don't react and try to convince him otherwise, the end result is Jim not feeling better, but you not feeling worse. Only one person in a bad mood, not two.

My mind's all over the place today, so sorry if this post is much the same way.

Can I give you two an assignment each? It won't be onerous, I promise.

The first part you need to do together - and that's to find 10 minutes each day to spend together, praying for the other person.

The second part is to think up one nice thing to say about your spouse, each day, and tell it to them. Face to face, in writing, whatever. While compliments on externals (I love your eyes) are nice, I'd encourage you to look at qualities you appreciate. And no qualifiers (You have a great smile when you're not tearing me down).

What do you two think? Do-able?

 

[BigJimP]

It sounds tough, especially for me, but I'll give it a try. It's not tough to find something positive to say. What is hard is leaving off the "but...." I'll try to give Raya roses without giving her the thorns along with it.

This is Raya, adding to Jim's post instead of him logging off and me logging back on. In fairness to Jim, I think it's harder for ME to leave off the qualifiers. "Nice smile....for a change." Nope. I need to stop it at "Nice smile," don't I? But what's really going to be tough is letting him stay in a rotten mood without trying to "reason" him out of it. But you're giving very good advice, and we're going to give it a whirl.

 

[InTheFlame]

Maybe write down your "buts". After a couple of weeks, have a look at your list and work out which ones are actually problems... and agree that you can talk about one "but" each every week. Once

 

[free4all]

I totally missed the point of your first post. Sorry.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Thought I'd chime in a bit about the diet thing. I'm not from Jim's generation, but I still had the mindset of only eating a few things that I was used to that I grew up with. I've started branching out and eating lots of foods from other countries like Mexican and Indian to name a couple and also drinking lots of water and cutting out sodas and all the coffee I was drinking. I'm 10 times healthier than I was when I was 20. There's lots of foods out there that are loaded with flavor that are extremely good for you.

 

[indagroove]

Jim, I do understand the depression.

Mine came from being grossly overweight, borderline diaebetic, high blood pressure, and hypertensive. Beign lectured by everyone I came in contact with that could not understand how I could let myself get that way? Let? People actually think I like being like this?

The shame, the guilt, the not understanding why I could not eat right. I could gain weight on 1200 cals a day. I had been over weight since I remember (200 pounds at age 12)

Then one day my doctor told me to stop counting calories. He said the sugar and the carbs are going to kill me, not the meat. Gave me a few books to read (Sugar busters & Atkins) They tought me how my body processed food. I changed my way of eating and lost 127 pounds. Today I am in perfect health. Not sugar level issues. BP is normal. The first time ins 25 years. Last two summers dodctor did my physical, and could not come up with anything that I need to do. For years all I got was lectures.

My wife tells me I can be negative. But she thinks it's funny because she knows it's coming,a dn she can quickly knock me off that horse. I have learned how to be humble and laugh at myself.

Jim and Rana, I will pray for you. I don't doubt you'll be ok. You both have to except the other as they are. There is no such thing as a perfect human.

God Bless.

 

[cruztacean]

I totally missed the point of your first post. Sorry.

That's OK. Other people did too, so I didn't make my point very clear, did I?

 

[cruztacean]

Jim, I do understand the depression.

Mine came from being grossly overweight, borderline diaebetic, high blood pressure, and hypertensive. Beign lectured by everyone I came in contact with that could not understand how I could let myself get that way? Let? People actually think I like being like this?

Grrrrr. I hate it when people give me that kind of attitude. I can go to a doctor with any complaint, it doesn't matter if it's just a bee sting. And I'll get, "You need to lose weight." You're kidding me, Doctor! I didn't know that!

I think the worst was when, as a nursing assistant, I injured my back moving a resident. I had help, but this lady was morbidy obese, and by that I mean she probably weighed a good 400 or 500 pounds, not even 5' tall. I told the worker's comp doctor "The woman was quite large" and got in return, "You're not doing bad in the 'large' department yourself." This along with a look-who's-talking kind of glare. Well, I wasn't criticizing the woman, I was only reporting a fact that doggone it, was relevant to the nature of the injury!

The shame, the guilt, the not understanding why I could not eat right. I could gain weight on 1200 cals a day. I had been over weight since I remember (200 pounds at age 12)

I'm a *little* better off. I was 16 before I hit 200. Poor daughter, however, was 10.

Our doctor doesn't want us on South Beach, we know that for sure, and Atkins had some terrible effects on my mother, which makes me afraid to try it. I did ask my doctor what to do; one person says count calories, another says count carbs, another says watch fat....

She advised us to eat all foods in moderation, never mind if it's high fat, low carb, whatever. Now, I do have Binge Eating Disorder, and I've noticed I'm most prone to a binge when I haven't been eating enough. So the key for me is to consistently, regulary, eat enough so that a binge is less likely.

Jim doesn't like the low-cal/carb/fat versions of foods. He feels as if they are "fakes." His father, who did the cooking, used to bring home the low-cal stuff and say, "Oops, oh darn, I got the wrong package, oh well, we'll have to use it anyway...." Jim's no dummy. How many times can his father make the same "mistake"? Or he'd think Jim would be just fine with the substitutions as long as he didn't KNOW it was the substitute. As if he couldn't tell by taste, which was much easier to do back then. A lot of parents thought that way. Kid doesn't like liver, so make it look like something else and just don't TELL him it's liver....

Well, I've advised him, if he doesn't like the substitutions, go for the full version and just eat LESS of it. Today we feel much better than we did yesterday, and I'll have to sign off now because I'm on my way to my endocrinologist's...

​

 

[c1ners]

Do you watch the cooking channel on TV? They have a few really good low carb, low calorie shows that make the food still look and taste good. If you have cable maybe you could check it out.

 

[bliz]

Everyone is responsible for the food that they themselves put in their mouths, no one else. Everyone is responsible for the words (attitude) that somes out of their own mouths, no one else. If he is in a bad mood, it does not automatically put you in a bad mood unless you let it. You can choose to not let it happen.

My husband is a type 1 diabetic, and so are 2 of our kids. He's had the heart attacks etc.

What help are you both getting for your depression? Any? The most effective treatment is the combination of drugs and talk therapy. The abaility to follow your diets and testing and exercise routines will be greatly limited by your depressions. They need as much attention as the diabetes.

Remember there are also no bad foods. A diabetic may eat anything at all - when and how much are the issues, but nothing is forbidden. But bottom line, if he chooses to eat a hot fudge sundae, nagging him is not going to help the situation. They he will be spiking and feeling guilty. If he really wants to eat junk, let him. It is his reasponsibility. Offer healthy meals (if you are the one who prepares meals) and don't worry about the rest.

 

[free4all]

It sounds like the question is, "What's the payoff?" Well, when I stay negative, and nothing my wife says or does can bring me out of it, then she gets mad. And that confirms what I think about myself.

Sometimes Raya thinks I'm deliberately trying to make her feel as lousy as I do. I'm not deliberately doing it, but I don't know how to stop. When I say something, I don't stop and think about what effect it's going to have on somebody else. I see it as me expressing my feelings. AND sometimes Raya overanalyzes everything I say, while I'm not analyzing it enough.

If I'm in a bad mood, and she's in a good mood, if we go back and forth enough about it, and eventually she's in a bad mood too, then that means I "won." I convinced her that there is something to be in a bad mood about. I've always had a problem being around happy people when I'm depressed. How dare they enjoy life when I'm so miserable? I get mad at myself because I'm not enjoying life like they are, and then I resent them. I know it's wrong. Also, it seems the older I get, the less there is to be happy about. I develop more and more health problems, I hurt more, and I have more to worry about. I feel less and less useful, because I can't do as many things as I used to. It becomes so frustrating, and the anger comes out of frustration.

Jim,

Sorry to muck up your thread by my first post, but I want to thank you for coming on here and telling your story. Your post has helped me understand why my wife does the things she does. I am already planning changes in how I respond to her when she tries to project her negative moods onto me.

Kudos for admitting it, doing something about it, and sharing.

 

[cruztacean]

What help are you both getting for your depression? Any? The most effective treatment is the combination of drugs and talk therapy.

We're both on antidepressant medications. Recently we have also both started individual counseling. I don't know how Jim's psychiatrist feels about it, but mine says we should do individual counseling first, then couples if we need it. In a way I think it's good that we have separate psychiatrists and counselors, instead of going to the same one. An ex-husband and I went to the same psychiatrist and same counselor, and there ended up being a lot of conflict of interest. Small town, he'd lived there forever and I was a newcomer, obvious bias, etc.

The ability to follow your diets and testing and exercise routines will be greatly limited by your depressions. They need as much attention as the diabetes.

I agree. We've also just learned that sometimes diabetes and depression can mimic each other, so it's important to stay on top of both of them and keep it sorted out which is which. Today at the endocrinologist's, we got to talking about how I get "crazy" when my sugar is running high, but Jim can tell his sugar is LOW because he gets "crazy." We came to the conclusion: If he's grouchy, feed him. If I'm grouchy, send me on a walk. We just hope the day never comes when his sugar drops down to 60 right about the same time mine has shot up over 300.....

We might just have to evacuate the area if that ever happens.

 

[E-beth]

My first husband was diagnosed with diet-controllable diabetes, and I thought I would go insane trying to help him. But he explained it to me that it felt like all of a sudden he was not allowed to brush his teeth anymore....and it felt like his teeth were gross and all he could think about was brushing them...yet he was supposed to just rinse them with water, because as he was told a million times, toothpaste will kill him. I sorta understood his frustration after that. And back then they didn't have sugar substitutes that you could bake, so he had to give up many of his favorite things. Then he would get depressed over living what he considered a strict and joyless life.

My favorite character is Peanuts' Lucy. She has made crabbiness an art form. But I agree that making everybody else crabby isn't going to improve things. But then, no one ever got happier because someone told them to. That only makes the crabbiness get zeroed in on something particular--you!

I am praying for the both of you. Struggles with health are difficult, especially when they are happening to someone you love lots.