What do homeless people need?

[Diamond7]

When I was 18 I lived out of a backpack. In the army, we live out of a duffel bag. We can only have what we can fit in the bag and carry with us. If it does not fit, or if we can not carry it on our backs, then we do not need it.

Should taxpayers pay for what people do not need? What do they need? The government seems to feel we have a poverty level and we need to live above that level to provide for our needs. Is that accurate?

The Hasidic say there is a lot we do not need. We may want to eat but if we are overweight then we do not need to eat. How much do we need to pay for a home? Musk seems to be wanting to determine that for us. He is building a small home and claims that is all he needs when he is on the job and working. Of course, he has rich friends that let him stay in their homes.

I really wonder. What do we need in life? Does a homeless person still have what they need?

 

[rambot]

Here's a nice simple chart:

Call me skeptical but when I see topics like this, I worry that it ends up becoming an exercise in Christians rationalizing giving less to the poor "and the widow".

 

[Fantine]

Maybe we should change this into a consciousness-raising exercise, Diamond7.

Try living out of a backpack for a week today, and then you will have a better idea of what people "need."

Years ago I went to a "hunger banquet." Every guest paid $5 for a potluck. 50% of guests got rice and water with brown food coloring (to indicate poor water quality.) Another 45% got rice, a potato, and brown water. 4% got a chicken dinner. 1% got a steak dinner with wine, served on a white tablecloth with fine china and silverware.

It raised consciousness.

Years ago some legislators made a pact to live on a food stamp budget for a week so they would have first hand experience with hunger.

When you were a soldier, you knew your condition was temporary. You were earning a salary. When you were discharged you would qualify, perhaps, for free college tuition and other perks.

If we lived out of a backpack for a week, would we become more compassionate or more hardhearted? That would be a pretty good test of character, I guess.

 

[Diamond7]

Call me skeptical but when I see topics like this, I worry that it ends up becoming an exercise in Christians rationalizing giving less to the poor "and the widow".

I got a statement once from the Bank. My wife gives 60 to 70% if her income to help others. She spends very little on herself. I do not think helping others has ever been a question or issue. We all sacrifice ourselves to do what we can to be of help to people.

 

[DaisyDay]

When I was 18 I lived out of a backpack.

Why and for how long and under what conditions (climate, available facilities, etc)?

In the army, we live out of a duffel bag. We can only have what we can fit in the bag and carry with us. If it does not fit, or if we can not carry it on our backs, then we do not need it.

You didn't live in the barracks? How did you get food and water? How did you take care of basic hygiene?

Should taxpayers pay for what people do not need? What do they need? The government seems to feel we have a poverty level and we need to live above that level to provide for our needs. Is that accurate?

The Hasidic say there is a lot we do not need. We may want to eat but if we are overweight then we do not need to eat. How much do we need to pay for a home? Musk seems to be wanting to determine that for us. He is building a small home and claims that is all he needs when he is on the job and working. Of course, he has rich friends that let him stay in their homes.

I really wonder. What do we need in life? Does a homeless person still have what they need?

It depends on what kind of life you have in mind. Do people really need dental care or do many thrive without teeth? Should people be treated for broken bones when amputation is so much more affordable?

Do people really need to be able to read and write or is that a luxury? Do people need jobs that pay enough for food, shelter and clothes suitable for the workplace?


I guess a lot of this boils down to what kind of society we want to live in.

 

[Diamond7]

Should people be treated for broken bones when amputation is so much more affordable?

My father was a doctor. Bones are going to heal themselves if you set them straight or not. They just heal faster if you go to the doctor. My son had some burns that were not healing. We took him to the specialists and they healed very fast after that. I have some outdoor cats that I take care of. We manage. They would be very expensive if I had to pay for the doctors to take care of them.

You do raise a very valid point. But I think the Hasidic are saying that clearly there is a lot in life that is pretty much luxury and not something we really need. I can eat some Raman noodles for 33 cents. At work my son is given 22 dollars for a meal from his employer. That is pretty much what it cost to have a fast food meal delivered. I need to lose weight. I should not be eating so $22 is not justified for me. I could get by on two or three dollars a day for food. But they budget my son $64 a day when he is on location work. Plus all his other expenses.

 

[Diamond7]

Do people really need dental care or do many thrive without teeth?

If people do not have money, the dentist will pull the tooth. In some cases, we may be better to do that. I paid a lot of money for dental work that did not last very long and in the end, I had nothing to show for the money spent. In Heaven, we will be able to generate $10,000 a day. So if anyone owes anyone anything, it will not take long to get that all straightened out. Most doctors are willing to work for free if you do not pay them. Although sometimes they will not accept a new patient that has a history of not paying their bills.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

When I was told that I could not continue seminary, it was not just me, but my wife of 15 years and 3 kids, that were now homeless. We had to apply for Section 8 housing, SNAP, and all kinds of financial resources.

"Well get a job!" I had one with a 90 minute bus and subway commute each way.
"Well get a car!" We could not have over $2000 in assets INCLUDING A CAR!!!
"Well why didn't your wife work?" Because our 3 kids were under 10 years old.
"Well get a better job!" I once was offered a raise but I would now have to pay my own insurance. The raise was $500 a month and the insurance was $800. So in order to take the raise, I would pay $300 more than I was already making.

In order to get off of public assistance, I needed a leap in pay from $36K to $50K. It took 3 years to do that due to this all occurring during the great recession.

 

[eleos1954]

When I was 18 I lived out of a backpack. In the army, we live out of a duffel bag. We can only have what we can fit in the bag and carry with us. If it does not fit, or if we can not carry it on our backs, then we do not need it.

Should taxpayers pay for what people do not need? What do they need? The government seems to feel we have a poverty level and we need to live above that level to provide for our needs. Is that accurate?

The Hasidic say there is a lot we do not need. We may want to eat but if we are overweight then we do not need to eat. How much do we need to pay for a home? Musk seems to be wanting to determine that for us. He is building a small home and claims that is all he needs when he is on the job and working. Of course, he has rich friends that let him stay in their homes.

I really wonder. What do we need in life? Does a homeless person still have what they need?

The bare necessities (food, water, shelter) are available for anyone in America (vis shelters) .... shelters are not necessarily ideal places to live ... but they are available.

A need is something that is needed to survive. A want is something that an individual desires, but would be able to live without.

Musks decision is based on both need and want. Want ... would have been a better word form him to use.

Want varies from person to person .... some homeless would rather live on the streets rather than in a shelter where their needs (survival) can be met. If they are able to survive on the streets then their need (survival) is being met.

Most people (including the government) want everyone to have more than they need.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Jesus didn't have a home or possessions.

 

[Diamond7]

some homeless would rather live on the streets rather than in a shelter where their needs (survival) can be met.

From my experience homeless people do not know how to build a home. If you give them one they do not know how to take care of it. We see a lot of this in Detroit. I did remodeling and renovation. I would make a home liveable and see people move in and tear it back down again.

 

[Ceallaigh]

When it comes to legislators living on food stamps, I think it depends on knowing how to live poor. For me food stamps probably wouldn't be much of an adjustment. I'm having a couple of hot pockets for dinner in my very small room a 100+ year old cheap residential hotel.

I think for me, the reason why I'm not homeless, is because I'm willing to work, be a dependable employee, and I don't do drugs. And I'm a good tenant.

There are lots of people who don't want to follow the rules that make one a good employee and a good tenant. They don't even want to live in a shelter, because that too means having to follow certain rules. Put simply, if you lead their lifestyle, you too would be homeless.

What do homeless people need? Quite frankly many need to get off drugs and be responsible.

 

[Ceallaigh]

From my experience homeless people do not know how to build a home. If you give them one they do not know how to take care of it. We see a lot of this in Detroit. I did remodeling and renovation. I would make a home liveable and see people move in and tear it back down again.

That's what happened with giving people free hotel rooms to live in during the pandemic. It got to the point where the hotels were so trashed, they were on the verge of being condemned. It cost tons of money to repair and clean the places. Quite frankly it's like that's the thanks they got for providing free housing.

 

[SimplyMe]

That's what happened with giving people free hotel rooms to live in during the pandemic. It got to the point where the hotels were so trashed, they were on the verge of being condemned. It cost tons of money to repair and clean the places. Quite frankly it's like that's the thanks they got for providing free housing.

Actually, you made me go back and look at a program I had heard of in Salt Lake City, where they are providing housing for the homeless. From what I can tell, the main difference is the support given to those that are homeless, in particular counseling and treatment while they are still in homeless shelters before they can qualify for one of the homes. As I understand it, the homes are meant to be temporary, but still available long enough for them to get jobs and establish themselves. This story is older, but it does talk about how Salt Lake lowered its homeless population from roughly 3,000 to 400.

From what I've seen, much of the homeless issue started when mental institutions were no longer allowed to keep those who had issues functioning in society, maybe functional so long as they were on medication, but were not a danger to themselves or others. Too often, it seems our response to homelessness is to give food, or money for a shelter where they can stay the night -- but that does nothing to stop homelessness. It is a bit like the idea of "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day." Where I think the Salt Lake plan has differed is in the counseling, knowing it does no good to move a person off the street if you don't solve the issues that put them on the street originally.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Actually, you made me go back and look at a program I had heard of in Salt Lake City, where they are providing housing for the homeless. From what I can tell, the main difference is the support given to those that are homeless, in particular counseling and treatment while they are still in homeless shelters before they can qualify for one of the homes. As I understand it, the homes are meant to be temporary, but still available long enough for them to get jobs and establish themselves. This story is older, but it does talk about how Salt Lake lowered its homeless population from roughly 3,000 to 400.

From what I've seen, much of the homeless issue started when mental institutions were no longer allowed to keep those who had issues functioning in society, maybe functional so long as they were on medication, but were not a danger to themselves or others. Too often, it seems our response to homelessness is to give food, or money for a shelter where they can stay the night -- but that does nothing to stop homelessness. It is a bit like the idea of "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day." Where I think the Salt Lake plan has differed is in the counseling, knowing it does no good to move a person off the street if you don't solve the issues that put them on the street originally.

That's what's needed. But many won't go for it. They don't want to be told what to do, or how to act, or be "forced" to take medication. But rather instead choose to take street drugs that makes their situation worse.

 

[Pommer]

From my experience homeless people do not know how to build a home. If you give them one they do not know how to take care of it. We see a lot of this in Detroit. I did remodeling and renovation. I would make a home liveable and see people move in and tear it back down again.

Anyone who is not “handy with tools”, is lazy?
You have skills, other people do not possess these skills, and therefore don’t do the same sort of thing that you have done…because they can’t. They feel no shame because that’s not “shameful”, that’s just “other people”.

 

[SimplyMe]

That's what's needed. But many won't go for it. They don't want to be told what to do, or how to act, or be "forced" to take medication. But rather instead choose to take street drugs that makes their situation worse.

Salt Lake is just giving them the choice, by giving the tools they need to be successful. Part of that choice is agreeing to follow the rules, which include no drugs and alcohol. And it seems most are willing to make that choice and agree to the rules rather than take the street drugs, and in the process lowered the homeless population by something like 87%. It seems "many" will do it, if done right -- it is just a few who won't.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Salt Lake is just giving them the choice, by giving the tools they need to be successful. Part of that choice is agreeing to follow the rules, which include no drugs and alcohol. And it seems most are willing to make that choice and agree to the rules rather than take the street drugs, and in the process lowered the homeless population by something like 87%. It seems "many" will do it, if done right -- it is just a few who won't.

That's really good to hear. I've become cynical over the situation because it's gotten so bad where I live.

 

[Diamond7]

Anyone who is not “handy with tools”, is lazy?

Some people seem to be handier with matches than others. The worst year in Detroit was 1984 when firefighters responded to more than 800 blazes that covered the entire city in an eerie, smoky haze on Halloween. They would rather burn them down than fix them up so they are liveable.

 

[Diamond7]

Salt Lake is just giving them the choice, by giving the tools they need to be successful. Part of that choice is agreeing to follow the rules, which include no drugs and alcohol. And it seems most are willing to make that choice and agree to the rules rather than take the street drugs, and in the process lowered the homeless population by something like 87%. It seems "many" will do it, if done right -- it is just a few who won't.

My son was homeless. Some areas provide homes for people, but he did not want to move there. It could be, it is more difficult or more expensive to get drugs there.