This is the type of thing I've heard before and keeps me away from fellowship

[BlackSabb]

You guys, he's basically saying that he's afraid to read the Bible becuase of people who were Christians, have judged him the wrong way and put him down the wrong way and embarrissed him. I think he was hoping for encouragement. He's basically saying, that he's run into some people who dissed him becuase he was listening to differant music and people no longer liked him, we need to be forgiving about the fact that he listens to other kinda music and pray that he will listen to good music as well. I don't see a problem with the music he listens to , becuase even I listen to Avril Lavinge and some Oldies Rock. But mostly Christian. However, I'm not gonna hold it against someone who listens to something I don't agree with. Becuase we can't control other people , as Christians, we need to set good examples and be forgiving when someone does something bad. It doesn't mean that I'm not a Christian and I'm this bad person. He said that is what made him afraid and he's looking for maybe an understanding as to why, not criticial statements about how bad he is, becuase he already knows that by not being Christian, he is on a lost road to no where , we need to be encouraging, not discouraging, and not tell people about how bad someone is becuase they aren't doing everything right.

I think if you want to read the Bible, go ahead. I've been through alot of bad situations too. I was also a person who wrote a half angle half devil at church and I didn't realize that what I was doing was wrong. Basically what i meant was that we aren't perfect people. No one is perfect, so were always fighting with ourself all the time, people took me the wrong way, and then stopped talking to me, knowing that I was a new Christian, I had no idea that it was wrong to draw that kinda thing at Chruch.

But, face your fear anyways and don't worry about what other people think, becuase God will deal with them, when their time comes.

Well thank you very much. That was a refreshing and much needed kind reply. It was greatly appreciated.

And ephraim........seriously, you're a cool dude. You're okay. For sure, Sabbath revelled in the drug theme in some of their songs, there is no disputing that, as you demonstrated in the song, "Sweet Leaf".

However, in other songs, they sang AGAINST drugs. The song you quoted "Hand of Doom" is a grim anti-drug song. As the lyrics go:


"What you gonna do? Time's caught up with you
Now you wait your turn, you know there's no return
Take your written rules, you join the other fools
Turn to something new, now it's killing you

First it was the bomb, Vietnam napalm
Disillusioning, you push the needle in
From life you escape, reality's that way
Colours in your mind satisfy your time

Oh you, you know you must be blind
To do something like this
To take the sleep that you don't know
You're giving Death a kiss,
Oh, little fool now

Your mind is full of pleasure
Your body's looking ill
To you it's shallow leisure
So drop the acid pill, don't stop to think now

You're having a good time baby
But that won't last
Your mind's all full of things
You're living too fast
Go out enjoy yourself
Don't bottle it in
You need someone to help you
To stick the needle in, yeah

Now you know the scene, your skin starts turning green
Your eyes no longer seeing life's reality
Push the needle in, face death's sickly grin
Holes are in your skin, caused by deadly pin

Head starts spinning 'round, you fall down to the ground
Feel your body heave, Death's hands starts to weave
It's too late to turn, you won't want to learn
Price of life you cry, now you're gonna die!"



So as you can see ephraim, Sabbath aren't as clear cut all out evil dudes as you think. They are capable of both positive and negative themes and influences. And this is what I like. They don't sing endless songs pretending to live some great pious life-that almost no one can live.

They do good and they do bad. They sing about good stuff and they sing about bad stuff. In a sense, I can relate to this far more than listening to exclusively "worship" music where supposedly people live for nothing else but worshipping and praising God and obeying him all day every day, every moment of the day.

I think that's what annoys me about the worship music. To me, it's pretense. Listening to music where in our minds all we love in the world is God, but in reality, we love our lives, we love our families, we have enjoyment outside of religion in things like hobbies, sports, our careers, our homes, our cars, entertainment. Worship music is not real. It's a caricature. It's a false reality. No one lives "just for Jesus", like the worship songs sing.

And I'm sure some of you are going to reply claiming that you do. Don't make me laugh. Yeah, you have no interests in this life and world than Jesus and religion. I don't believe it.

No, Sabbath to me is more real. As I say, they sing about both good and bad stuff. They sing about drugs, for and against, they sing about successful and broken relationships, they sing about being screwed over by their record company, they sing about God in times of both faith and disbelief.

This is real life that 99.9999% of us experience. Not the "just living for Jesus" and absolutely nothing else in life that "worship" music constricts us to.

A false reality.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about. Here are part of some Hillsong lyrics, "You are my World", from the album of the same name:


"You are my world
You are my God
And I lay down my life for You
You are my Lord
The one I love
No one could ever take Your place

And everything I have I give to You
My Lord, the One I live for
I live for You
And all my days are gifts from You
I pray I'd use them as You want me to
Use them for You".


Gosh, I'd go barking mad listening to this type of unrealistic stuff all day. I give "everything" to you. Yeah, sure you do. If people did that, they would never marry, have jobs, buy a house and start a family. Yeah, keep on dreaming. No one lives like this. This is not real.

This is what all this "worship" music does. It fosters an artificial and impossibly pious reality. Whereas Sabbath to me is real and relevant.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I don't think that "living only for Jesus" means cutting everyone else out of your life....on the contrary, the more we love God the more we love others. That's why He told us to love God fully (1st Commandment) but also told us to love other people...these two things are related. But that phrase just means that He's the one who gives meaning to your life and you're not living for the world. That He's the number one thing.

That being said, sadly I'm not quite there yet, but I sure would like to someday! Maybe it'll only truly happen in the Resurrection.

Here's a typical "living only for Jesus" song

In the quiet, in the stillness
I know that You are God
In the secret of Your presence
I know there I am restored

When You call I won’t refuse
Each new day again I’ll choose

There is no one else for me
None but Jesus
Crucified to set me free
Now I live to bring Him praise

In the chaos, in confusion
I know You’re Sovereign still
In the moment of my weakness
You give me grace to do Your will

When You call I won’t delay
This my song through all my days

All my delight is in You Lord
All of my hope, all of my strength
All my delight is in You Lord Forevermore

(Hillsong)

I think that's the type of song you meant.
We sing it at my church sometimes. When I sing it, I sing it like a prayer..as something that I would like to happen someday, even though as I said I'm not there yet. And it encourages me to seek more of Him!

That being said, I really like "reality" music too...like Nichole Nordeman, who's really honest in her songs and talks about doubt and struggling with faith...while being a committed Christian. I can relate to so many of her songs. They are encouraging, but "worship music" is something else...it's praising God and giving yourself to Him fully. It's bowing down to His will. Not singing about faith and struggles in life, but just loving Him. Worship music has a different purpose, and its purpose explains the type of words....

 

[Iloverock24]

Currently responding to those who question wheather were not Christian enough.
You don't have a right to question wheather a Christian has recieved God in their heart or not. Becuase now your judging a Christian and yourself. You have no idea what your talking about, when you say that were not Christian enough. The world isn't perfect, deal with it. As far as Romans go, if you haven't read that, I'm a New Christian, Christians are not perfect and they can't do everything right, the second they ask God in their heart. Infact, everyday they are learning more things about God, and it takes a whole life time to get good at fallowing him. And I can say many things that say that your not being 100 percent Christian either, but I'm not going to. Cuase that would lable me a hypocrite. As far as Romans go, I asked God to tell me what to write on the forums and I replied with understanding. I have an ability to interpret and I used it. God says it's ok to use your ability, so don't jump on me.






Joyce Meyers is my favorite preacher and I can point out a few things that I don't agree with in the way she preaches, but I'm not going to, becuase I like her advice. Do you hear me going, she isn't Christian enough becuase of something I might not like about her? No, I watch Joyce Meyers anyways. And other preachers as well. Although there isn't really much I can find that I don't like about her.





You guys make me wanna leave this Chat forum.




Right now I pray that this forum is filled with understanding and that people learn to hear what this guy is talking about, that way we can bring him to God and not think about just the bad things that he's done or how he listens to bad music and just give him some kind advice so he can be lead to God.

Thank you Blacksabbath for your kind comments. I'm definatly sure God is happy becuase of your complimtents towards what I said.
I don't mind a little moderation, I mainly listen to Christian music, but like, just yesturday, I got my jutebox charger back becuase it was burried under some stuff in the house, which was hidden like that, becuase our house is a mess, there are somethings I can clean up and somethings I can't, so yeah, it was burried under one of thoses messes. She gave me my charger back, And I was listening to all kinds of stuff, including an audio Bible. I was really happy that I had my music back And I listend to Leann Rymes, and then I was like, woah I have Run DMC on here and I have that one song from Armegeddon, on here and I love Oldies Rock. I was listening to the Chicago Bulls thing yesturday. You know Michel Jordan, thing. I think it's ok as long as you don't allow the music to control you and control your opinions about people around you, cuase if it controls your opinions, it will control your actions. But using the music in moderation is ok. I think without hearing other music, it's impossible to get an understanding of those who are not Christian then those who are. And no I don't want to get married or have a bf or anything like that becuase I have a heart condition and not sure if I can have a kid with the heart condition I have. And even so, I just don't want to please anyone but God right now.

 

[ephraimanesti]

MY DEAR YOUNG CYNICAL FRIEND,

So as you can see ephraim, Sabbath aren't as clear cut all out evil dudes as you think. They are capable of both positive and negative themes and influences. And this is what I like. They don't sing endless songs pretending to live some great pious life-that almost no one can live.

They do good and they do bad. They sing about good stuff and they sing about bad stuff.

Our Lord Jesus warns, "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruid you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear ghood fruit is cut down and thrown into the first. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." (Matthew 7:15-20)

And, perhaps more to the point, James asks, "Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water." (James 3:11, 12)

Be that as it may, i understand now (finally) that my arguing against Ozzy and Company is counterproductive and beside the point anyway, given that Black Sabbath is a symptom of the problem and not the cause.

In a sense, I can relate to this far more than listening to exclusively "worship" music where supposedly people live for nothing else but worshipping and praising God and obeying him all day every day, every moment of the day.

I think that's what annoys me about the worship music. To me, it's pretense. Listening to music where in our minds all we love in the world is God, but in reality, we love our lives, we love our families, we have enjoyment outside of religion in things like hobbies, sports, our careers, our homes, our cars, entertainment. Worship music is not real. It's a caricature. It's a false reality. No one lives "just for Jesus", like the worship songs sing.

Here is your problem--your cynicism. That is what is so heart-breaking about this whole Thread--your lack of belief in belief. How can you doubt the light to such an extent that you believe that everything is dark or tainted or illusionary or just plain B.S. Have you not me our glorious Lord face to face and seen for yourself that His is worth living for--24/7? You state that you are a Christian--What does it mean to you if not living a life "just for Jesus?" Why do you claim Jesus as your Lord if this brings you no joy and fulfillment? (i mean these questions seriousless--i really don't understand.)

And I'm sure some of you are going to reply claiming that you do. Don't make me laugh. Yeah, you have no interests in this life and world than Jesus and religion. I don't believe it.

YES! It saddens me greatly to come to the realization--after we have traded Posts for a while--that you "REALLY don't believe it."

No, Sabbath to me is more real. As I say, they sing about both good and bad stuff. They sing about drugs, for and against, they sing about successful and broken relationships, they sing about being screwed over by their record company, they sing about God in times of both faith and disbelief.

This is real life that 99.9999% of us experience. Not the "just living for Jesus" and absolutely nothing else in life that "worship" music constricts us to.

My young friend, this is NOTHING else but Jesus and His Kingdom which exists within the hearts of believers. Everything else is illusion--SAMASARA--as the Buddhists would say.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about. Here are part of some Hillsong lyrics, "You are my World", from the album of the same name:


"You are my world
You are my God
And I lay down my life for You
You are my Lord
The one I love
No one could ever take Your place

And everything I have I give to You
My Lord, the One I live for
I live for You
And all my days are gifts from You
I pray I'd use them as You want me to
Use them for You".

i normally don't listen to "Praise Music" for reasons of musical taste, but this song is the TRUTH! This is how it REALLY is for those who are REALLY Christians. It is all or nothing, my brother, there is no middle ground. 24/7 or not at all.

Gosh, I'd go barking mad listening to this type of unrealistic stuff all day. I give "everything" to you. Yeah, sure you do. If people did that, they would never marry, have jobs, buy a house and start a family. Yeah, keep on dreaming. No one lives like this. This is not real.

Please at least believe in the possibility that you are wrong! Many live like this. THIS IS THE ONLY REALITY THERE IS!

This is what all this "worship" music does. It fosters an artificial and impossibly pious reality. Whereas Sabbath to me is real and relevant.[/quote]
It is "relevant" only to those outside the Kingdom. For those within it brings only sadness thinking of those--like yourself--who are trapped in this negative and self-destructive belief system in which a lifetime of happiness and fulfillment--which is the birthright of all of us--YOU INCLUDED--as beloved children of God the Father and brothers and sisters of Jesus His Son--seems an illusionary and impossible dream.

TURN FROM THIS CYNICAL MADNESS THAT YOUR EYES MAY BE OPENED TO THE TRUTH!

MAY YOU BE BLESSED!

A BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

Mate,

I use to listen to a lot of what I would call "junk" now. I can't say I ever got into Black Sabbath or anything like. I was a bit of a tragic my musical tastes were pretty bad.

I don't know if you are a so called "Born-Again" Christian or something else, but it doesn't matter. If you confess that Christ is your personal saviour then the Holy Spirit will come into your life and change you to become who you are meant to be.

All Christians are sinners, and as far as I'm concerned a man could be just as sinful or even more so listening to worship music then not at all. I can relate to that experience - listening to "holy" music doesn't make me holy. The Christian process of santification is a process where we chase after the Lord and he changes us. There are many things about us that are broken and he fixes them.

I do believe though that what you put into your mind and your thoughts do influence you. So I agree with some of the stuff posted that Black Sabbath may not necessarily be helpful for your Christian walk. However that is not a matter for me to decide but rather something between you and God. And from reading your posts I don't think it matters to you right now.

So then, brother, just follow the Lord and what He has commanded you. I encourage you to however, seek fellowship with others in the body of Christ. God has a place for you among his church - if others judge you then they shouldn't be doing that anyway. The only person you are accountable to is Christ Jesus. He is a wonderful God, and He will do amazing things in your life if you believe and let him.

God Bless

Clint

 

[BlackSabb]

MY DEAR YOUNG CYNICAL FRIEND,


Our Lord Jesus warns, "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

.



Who's talking about "prophets"? I'm just talking about the enjoyment of music for the sake of music. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm not really interested in some "prophecy", true or otherwise, when listening to music. Sabbath aren't prophets, neither are Hillsong and the like.

The difference is that Sabbath don't pretend to be.

Be that as it may, i understand now (finally) that my arguing against Ozzy and Company is counterproductive and beside the point anyway, given that Black Sabbath is a symptom of the problem and not the cause.

.



Gee, well one of their songs is called "Symptoms of the Universe". Man, you are a "prophet". Ahhhh...........no you're not.

Here is your problem--your cynicism.

.


I don't believe you.

It saddens me greatly to come to the realization--after we have traded Posts for a while--that you "REALLY don't believe it."

.


I don't believe you because I'm cynical.

My young friend, this is NOTHING else but Jesus and His Kingdom which exists within the hearts of believers. Everything else is illusion--SAMASARA--as the Buddhists would say.

.



Well, this is bizarre! Nothing else exists for you but Jesus as you quote Buddhism.

This is how it REALLY is for those who are REALLY Christians. It is all or nothing, my brother, there is no middle ground. 24/7 or not at all.

.



Oh, what rubbish!!!! "All or nothing". So you are not married, have no home, no job, no hobbies, sports or interests? You spend your whole day in prayer and fasting with no outside interests outside of religion? What crap.

Please at least believe in the possibility that you are wrong! Many live like this. THIS IS THE ONLY REALITY THERE IS!

.


No, because it's utter garbage. "Many live like this". Crap. I will grant you that perhaps Mother Theresa and an exceptionally extreme few people have lived "just" for Jesus. But that's all. Maybe 1 in 1, 000, 000 have lived like this, certainly not "many".

TURN FROM THIS CYNICAL MADNESS THAT YOUR EYES MAY BE OPENED TO THE TRUTH!

.


NO!

 

[Johnnz]

They do good and they do bad. They sing about good stuff and they sing about bad stuff. In a sense, I can relate to this far more than listening to exclusively "worship" music where supposedly people live for nothing else but worshipping and praising God and obeying him all day every day, every moment of the day.

I think that's what annoys me about the worship music. To me, it's pretense. Listening to music where in our minds all we love in the world is God, but in reality, we love our lives, we love our families, we have enjoyment outside of religion in things like hobbies, sports, our careers, our homes, our cars, entertainment. Worship music is not real. It's a caricature. It's a false reality. No one lives "just for Jesus", like the worship songs sing. .

Worship has become too confined to specific time and activities at church. The NT sees our whole lives to be an act of worship. And that includes all the many things we discover that we enjoy in this world because God made a huge effort to design this place for us. Our interests, hobbies, jobs, families etc can all be part of our worship as we recognise the fingerprint of God in them and return thanks for being such a wonderful God.

We have become too 'churched' and 'other worldly' and forgotten these Scriptures"
John 1:3-4 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men. NIV

Col 1:16- For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. NIV

John
NZ

 

[alatir]

.



Who's talking about "prophets"? I'm just talking about the enjoyment of music for the sake of music. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm not really interested in some "prophecy", true or otherwise, when listening to music. Sabbath aren't prophets, neither are Hillsong and the like.

The difference is that Sabbath don't pretend to be.



.



Gee, well one of their songs is called "Symptoms of the Universe". Man, you are a "prophet". Ahhhh...........no you're not.



.


I don't believe you.



.


I don't believe you because I'm cynical.


.



Well, this is bizarre! Nothing else exists for you but Jesus as you quote Buddhism.



.



Oh, what rubbish!!!! "All or nothing". So you are not married, have no home, no job, no hobbies, sports or interests? You spend your whole day in prayer and fasting with no outside interests outside of religion? What crap.

.


No, because it's utter garbage. "Many live like this". Crap. I will grant you that perhaps Mother Theresa and an exceptionally extreme few people have lived "just" for Jesus. But that's all. Maybe 1 in 1, 000, 000 have lived like this, certainly not "many".




.


NO!

Dude, you sound very much like me couple of a years ago. I just remember arguing with my sister all this stuff over and over. I can feel the hatred in your words, literally in my spirit. But the ultimate the answers is Jesus Christ. That's all I can say. I'm praying for you.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Oh, what rubbish!!!! "All or nothing". So you are not married, have no home, no job, no hobbies, sports or interests? You spend your whole day in prayer and fasting with no outside interests outside of religion? What crap.

No, because it's utter garbage. "Many live like this". Crap. I will grant you that perhaps Mother Theresa and an exceptionally extreme few people have lived "just" for Jesus. But that's all. Maybe 1 in 1, 000, 000 have lived like this, certainly not "many".

MY CYNICAL YOUNG FRIEND,

"Enter through the narrow gate. for wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matthew 7:13-14) MAY GOD HELP YOU FIND YOUR WAY!

MAY YOU BE BLESSED!
​

A BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[alatir]

.

.



Oh, what rubbish!!!! "All or nothing". So you are not married, have no home, no job, no hobbies, sports or interests? You spend your whole day in prayer and fasting with no outside interests outside of religion? What crap.

.


No, because it's utter garbage. "Many live like this". Crap. I will grant you that perhaps Mother Theresa and an exceptionally extreme few people have lived "just" for Jesus. But that's all. Maybe 1 in 1, 000, 000 have lived like this, certainly not "many".

20 Each one should remain in the situation which he was in when God called him. 21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. 22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave. 23 You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to.
1. Corinthians: 7:20-24

God is God of order, He has a plan and a place for everybody, just accept it.

 

[Iloverock24]

I can tell some of you aren't being any better then what your quoting and I don't want to argue about it anymore, Sabbath just ignore them, they wont stop until you say Ok I'm not listening to so and so anymore and they don't have a right to force religion beliefs on others. It says that in the Bible. This is a forum for advice, not for forcing other peoples beliefs. I'm gonna quit comming here, I recently posted something on the forum asking foradvice and when they asked me what my situation was like, (not in those words litterally) but I knew that she was asking me this, she walked away from me after posting it, I was trying to avoid posting it myself, I didn't want to get into detail about the situation I'm in a home and I was really embarrissed, i was hidding to write about it, becuase I didn't want to get in trouble and she just ignored me. so I'm not going here anymore, but you can do w/e I'm not forcing you. I think the people who say that your pretending to wear a sheep skin are also pretending to wear sheep skin becuase that's what God says in the Bible.

 

[hsilgne]

.

Who's talking about "prophets"? I'm just talking about the enjoyment of music for the sake of music. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm not really interested in some "prophecy", true or otherwise, when listening to music. Sabbath aren't prophets, neither are Hillsong and the like.

BlackSabb,

There is nothing wrong with listening to Black Sabbath... like you say - it's just music.

People get stereotypes in their mind and just won't let it go. It reminds me of the stuff you hear about when Elvis Presley came on the scene. Just ridiculous.

The name "Black Sabbath" certainly leaves an impression with people - especially fundamental christians who hear the name. They hear the name and make a judgment and then never actually investigate to verify the judgment they make.... point in question, prolly the most popular Black Sabbath song is called "Black Sabbath" - at least in my oppinion. - It's one of my favorites anyways. But the point is if you listen to that song it is actually a song that - IMO - tells us to stay away from Satan and his tricks. Here are the lyrics if there is anyone involved in this thread that has never heard the song - which from what I can gather after reading some of the posts here is certainly the case...

"Black Sabbath" by Black Sabbath(with Ozzy)

What is this that stands before me?
Figure in black which points at me
Turn around quick, and start to run
Find out I'm the chosen one
Oh no

Big black shape with eyes of fire
Telling people their desire
Satan's sitting there, he's smiling
Watches those flames get higher and higher
Oh no, no, please God help me

Is it the end, my friend?
Satan's coming 'round the bend
people running 'cause they're scared
The people better go and beware
No, no, please, no

 

[BornAgainJen]

I'm gonna quit comming here, I recently posted something on the forum asking foradvice and when they asked me what my situation was like, (not in those words litterally) but I knew that she was asking me this, she walked away from me after posting it, I was trying to avoid posting it myself, I didn't want to get into detail about the situation I'm in a home and I was really embarrissed, i was hidding to write about it, becuase I didn't want to get in trouble and she just ignored me.

If you're referring to the post that I think you are--you are being too sensitive about this. Nobody "walked away from" you...and you were not exactly direct about your situation in your posts.

You should not leave here for those reasons... cheer up!

 

[dbot]

This is all getting a little ridiculous.

The original poster said he had a problem with christians because they assault his choice of music. And in response here, he's met with exactly the same attitude he just decried. Hell, I tried to show my support, and I got the exact same treatment for my musical tastes.

It's just music. I'm sure he doesnt listen to black sabbath, nor do I listen to bad religion for the same reason one listens to worship music. We're not looking for an ideological suppport. We're looking for good music to listen to. Stop accusing Blacksabb (and myself) of inferiority, or even under the influence of the devil simply because of a band.

And Blacksabb, you need to relax as well. Even if you find what others say insulting, don't feel like you need to please them. You're not accountable to them. If God wants you to stop listening to Black Sabbath, I have no doubt he'll tell you himself.

 

[BornAgainJen]

dbot--I meant to follow up on your reply to my comment...the one where you went on about how you are capable of thought...I basically wanted to let you know that I meant no harm to you personally with my comment and to also assure you that I too am capable of thought. (also I have a 5 mos. old boy now so I've been more aware of the music I listen to)

 

[dbot]

dbot--I meant to follow up on your reply to my comment...the one where you went on about how you are capable of thought...I basically wanted to let you know that I meant no harm to you personally with my comment and to also assure you that I too am capable of thought. (also I have a 5 mos. old boy now so I've been more aware of the music I listen to)

No harm, friend. Part of the problem was that I took what you and others said essentially as an intrusion into my faith, when I'm sure that it was all (mostly at least) meant with concern, which I appreciate.

But to me, listening to Bad Religion is sort of...symbolic. Because they themselves talk about a "them and us" mentality, which is something I personally cant stand, because I agree with them on that point. Those on one side thinking that the other is inferior because they believe or dont believe in God. So like I said, the way I see it, by listening to their messages, I'm proving them wrong by not erecting some wall between christians and athiests. After all, we are all humans on this planet, seperated by a belief. And I hope that as I grow older, I'm able to use that idea. I figure if someone who doesnt believe would see that in me, a christian, that might open them up more to seeing what I believe. Having that "them and us" attitude only creates sides that are fighting each other, instead of trying to reach each other.

They have views antithetical to my own, and I do recognize that. Some things they say I can't listen to. But sometimes the voice of the opposition can tell you exactly what you need to hear. And if you know what you believe, then you shouldn't be afraid to look through the opposite beliefs to see how to better build your own.

So all of that is why I got so defensive over why I listen to who I listen to. I can just say it better now that I've had time to relax.

And again, no hard feelings, friend.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Gosh, I'd go barking mad listening to this type of unrealistic stuff all day. I give "everything" to you. Yeah, sure you do. If people did that, they would never marry, have jobs, buy a house and start a family. Yeah, keep on dreaming. No one lives like this. This is not real.

Hi, there's another way to look at it...it's not like we have to give up having jobs and families for God, it's more like we seek to glorify Him and further His Kingdom in our jobs and families. Doing these things for God, not for ourselves. That's what "giving everything" to Him is.

However, there are some people who are called by God to give things up for Him (I'm not talking about bad things, which we all have to give up, but other things like marriage, etc). Everyone serves God's Kingdom in different ways.

 

[Lisa0315]

Hi everyone. I was watching a bit of the Christian program "Jentezin Franklin", and he was talking about the music ministry and "worship" music.

He was emphasising the need for "anointed" musicians, not mere talented musicians. He stated that you could walk into a worldly bar and find great talent. But rather, what the church needed was holy, annointed musicians, who would encourage the presence of the Holy Spirit in the congregation, rather than unholy and unannointed musicians that would drive away the Spirit.

He emphasised that how people worshipped in private would determine how they would be worshipping in the church, and how "annointed" they would be in the music team.

So far, I could live with all this. And then.............

He said that he could tell immediately how annointed people would be in the church by seeing what they listened to in private. Jentezin stated that if he went into somone's car, house, bedroom, living room etc, and saw their music collection, "instantly" he would see if they were fit as one of God's musicians in the church. He said that if they listened to secular music, they were unannointed, and if they listened to "worship" music, they would bring an annointing to the church.

At this point, I became ENRAGED!!!!!! And more determined than ever to stay away from fellowship.

Why I hear you ask? Because all the cruel, heartless Christians that hurt and abused me all had one thing in common: they were all very conservative people that did not listen to any secular music and rarely watched secular tv, movies etc. All these people were ALWAYS listening to their precious "worship" music.

And yet what flowed out of them to me personally was anything but some holy "annointing". Seriously, if they were annointed, I wouldn't want to be a Christian.

I just can't believe that Christianity is so superficial. You know the type of "Christian" that you really are just by observing what sort of music you listen to. Never mind the type of life you live. Many "Christians" are able to be greedy, sordid, rude, abusive etc whilst all the time listening to exclusively "worship" music.

This actually makes me proud to listen to EXCLUSIVELY secular music. And doubly proud that my favourite band is Black Sabbath. Again, from what I experienced from Christians who only listened to Christian music, I'm glad I don't listen to it. And I'm very proud that I listen to something they are opposed to.


I just want to scream, just thinking what I went through from so many ultra conservative Christians who forsake secular music.

Thank God for bands like Sabbath that bring some sanity into this world.

I haven't read the rest of the posts, so I may be repeating what someone else has written. I am just writing this from the heart.

First of all, no matter what position a person has in the church, they are still human. We tend to look at the leaders of the church as somehow more Christian than we are, and so somehow need to speak and do everything perfectly. That is just not true. They are as human as we are. I know this especially because I am in the inner circle with 4 preachers in the family.

Second, our eyes are not supposed to be on people, but on the Lord. If someone says something that offends you, your job is to forgive them and pray for them. It is not supposed to make you angry, or at least if it does, it is your duty as a Christian to pray it away. Remember, that choir director is not perfect. He has no business being so judgemental, but you have two choices. Either pray for him to be a better choir leader or become the choir leader yourself.

Third, our treasure will be where our heart is. This is Scripture and I can post the verse if you wish. If our treasure is on earthly things, then, that is where our heart will be. If our treasure is with the things of God, then, that is where our heart will be.

So, for some, secular music very well may be a stumbling block. For others, it may not be. This is our Christian liberty. The only way to know is if you pray about it. If listening to secular music is causing a rift between you and God, then, you should put secular music away. If you are a fan of a band that may cost you your Christian testimony, then, do you choose that band or do you choose your testimony?

Every single one of us have to make decisoins like this. Every single one of us have battles with worldly things that we have to give up. I am going to post something else here called, "The Necklace" after I am done with that post. All I ask is for you to think about it.

So, I am not going to say that your choir director is right or wrong. I can't because I do not know him and I do not know you. However, your angry reaction to the statement, and your decision to lose fellowship there seems to point that the fault is with you.

I can only speak to you the truth in love. I do not want to offend you. However, it will not do you any good for me to pat you on the head and pretend that there is no problem.

There may not be a problem. I can only go by what you have stated here. I can only give you my honest opinion, but at the end of the day, it is only my opinion, and ultimately, it is between you and God.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

The Necklace

The cheerful little girl was almost five.
Waiting with her
mother at the checkout stand, she saw them, a
circle of glistening white
pearls in a pink foil box.
Oh mommy please, Mommy. Can I have them?
please, Mommy, please?"
Quickly the mother checked the back of the
little foil box and
then looked back into the pleading blue eyes of her little girl's upturned face.
"A dollar ninety-five. That's almost
2.00. If you really want
them, I'll think of some extra chores for you and
in no time you can save
enough money to buy them for yourself. Your birthday's only a week away & you might get another crisp dollar bill from Grandma."
As soon as Jenny got home, she emptied her penny bank and counted out 17 pennies. After dinner, she did more than her share of chores and she went to the neighbor and asked Mrs. McJames if she could pick dandelions for ten cents. On her birthday, Grandma, did give her another new dollar bill and at last she had enough money to buy the necklace. Jenny loved her pearls. They made her feel dressed up and grown up. She wore them everywhere, Sunday school, kindergarten, even to bed. The only time she took them off was when she went swimming or had a bubble bath. Mother said if they got wet, they mi ght turn her neck green.
Jenny had a very loving daddy and every night when she was ready for bed, he would stop whatever he was doing and come upstairs to read her a story. One night as he finished the story, he asked Jenny, "Do you love me?"
"Oh yes, daddy. You know that I love you."
"Then give me your pearls."
"Oh, daddy, not my pearls. But you can have Princess, the white horse from
my collection, the one with the pink tail Remember, daddy? The one you gave me. She's my very favorite" "That's okay, Honey, daddy loves you. Good
> night." And he brushed her cheek with a kiss. About a week later, after the story time, Jenny's daddy asked again, "Do you love me?" "Daddy, you know I love you." "Then give me your pearls." "Oh Daddy, not my pearls. But you can have my baby doll. The brand new one I got for my birthday. She is
> beautiful and you can have the yellow blanket that matches her sleeper." "That's okay. Sleep well. God bless you, little one. Daddy loves you." And as always, he brushed her cheek with a gentle kiss. A few nights later when her daddy came in, Jenny was sitting on her bed with her legs crossed Indian style. As he came close, he noticed her chin was trembling and one silent tear rolled down her cheek. "What is it, Jenny? What's the matter?" Jenny didn't say anything but lifted her little hand up to her daddy. And when she opened it, there was her little pearl necklace. With a little quiver, she finally said, "Here, daddy; this is for you." With tears gathering in his own eyes, Jenny's daddy reached out with one hand to take the dime store necklace, and with the other hand he reached into his pocket and pulled out a blue velvet case with a strand of genuine pearls and gave them to Jenny. He had them all the time. He was just waiting for her to give up the dime-store stuff so he could give her the genuine treasure. So it is, with our Heavenly Father. He is waiting for us to give up the cheap things in our lives so that he can give us beautiful treasures. Isn't God good? Are you holding onto things that God wants You to let go of? Are you holding on to harmful or unnecessary partners, relationships, habits and activities that you have come so attached to that it seems impossible to let go? Sometimes it is so hard to see what is in the other hand but do believe this one thing.
God will never take away something without giving you something better in its place.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Thanks for sharing that Lisa! That's so true!
God bless!


monica