This Is My Fireproof Thread

[JaneFW]

I said:

But not "nice" so much as truthfully pursuing the Lord. Whether that's "nice" or not may not be the point.

 

[chaz345]

A person pursuing an affair with a member of the same sex or opposite sex tend to be pretty good pointers when considering whether a person is honestly pursuing God. You can't pursue both with any honesty in your intentions.

So then you would agree that in terms of Fireproof, what she was doing was every bit as wrong as what he did? Therein lies the heart of most people's objection to that movie, that her actions were portrayed as less bad or as a response to his.

 

[McScribe]

But in Castaway he had been gone so long and she had married. Would he have stayed and tried to break up the marriage? With the greatest of respect, I don't think that's the same at all.

What I mean is that doing the right thing doesn't always reward you the way you'd hope it would. In Fireproof the plan works, and I think that that distorts the message of the importance of being godly in our everyday actions. I believe we truly do get blessed by that, but it may not be perceived right away or even happen right away.

 

[McScribe]

Right Msc.

In the Bible, doing good to others does not result in them loving you for it necessarily, and in life it is equally true. That's not even why you do it, it's because we are supposed to have the character of Christ.

The other thing about someone saying "honestly pursuing the Lord" is that we get right back to here is one person deciding about another persons pursuit of God.

We see here all the time how badly we can all differ on that. There is one poster who, if you were to take their evolving definitions of what that even means, it would require 28 hour days and an army of consultants and counselors to even stay on top of that shape shifter.

"Nice" is confused with pursuit of God

Anyway, the movie, Dalrocks analysis is pretty good I think Im waiting for him to review Courageous

Or perhaps pleasing to others in the faith confused with pursuit of God?

I'm not planning on seeing Courageous. But I may read the review.

 

[Conservativation]

Exactly, maybe its why some have lower expectations from relationships, and sit in less than perfect situations for years. They realize that the best we can hope for, and not even expect, is as Mcs says, you do the right thing overall, and it may or may not make everyone around you feel like they are queen of the world....so what appears to be apathy is actually realism.

 

[JaneFW]

So then you would agree that in terms of Fireproof, what she was doing was every bit as wrong as what he did? Therein lies the heart of most people's objection to that movie, that her actions were portrayed as less bad or as a response to his.

I'm not getting into your men vs. women thing Chaz.

 

[Conservativation]

Or perhaps pleasing to others in the faith confused with pursuit of God?

I'm not planning on seeing Courageous. But I may read the review.

Yes, pleasing others is indeed confused with pursuing God. Especially now that there is even a set of things that we can list that are taught to be pleasing to God and pursuing Him, that build an expectation in the spouse because those things also please them. Im talking about the daytimer faith,

Got my devotional with coffee check
Discussed 3 scriptures with wife today check
taught a Bible story to kids, maybe even with crafts...check
held hands to pray bedside check
etc etc
Are these valued by a spouse because they think it pleases God.....or because it pleases THEM?

The answer is obvious, its THEM.....because if they only think those things are pleasing God then theyd be less worried that theor spouse was doing it and more worried that THEY were doing it

 

[JaneFW]

What I mean is that doing the right thing doesn't always reward you the way you'd hope it would. In Fireproof the plan works, and I think that that distorts the message of the importance of being godly in our everyday actions. I believe we truly do get blessed by that, but it may not be perceived right away or even happen right away.

I'm not sure I believe in real life rewards anyway. Or, maybe I just don't believe that people get the rewards they want, or think they deserve, or maybe even a reward that pertains to the 'right thing' that they did. So they may do the right thing in marriage, but it may never pay off in that marriage. It may just lead to that person doing the right thing being blessed in other areas - or maybe not even at all until they get to heaven. Or maybe heaven alone is their reward, and they are more than grateful for it.

 

[chaz345]

I'm not getting into your men vs. women thing Chaz.

I'm not talking men versus women, I'm talking about a problem with the movie. I'd have the exact same objection if the movie blamed all of the maritial problems on say a woman's long term sexual refusal and portrayed her husband looking at porn or starting down the road to an affair as an understandable response. But such a movie would never be made in the first place.

As it was written the movie places all of the blame for the crappy state of the marriage on one person and excuses the other's wrong actions as an understandable response that's just plain wrong no matter which person the blame is placed on.

But your viewing my calls for blame to be placed equally as a men versus woman thing only proves the point that the default norm is blame the man.

 

[McScribe]

I'm not sure I believe in real life rewards anyway. Or, maybe I just don't believe that people get the rewards they want, or think they deserve, or maybe even a reward that pertains to the 'right thing' that they did. So they may do the right thing in marriage, but it may never pay off in that marriage. It may just lead to that person doing the right thing being blessed in other areas - or maybe not even at all until they get to heaven. Or maybe heaven alone is their reward, and they are more than grateful for it.

The Bible, and my own life experience show that there are rewards, but that they take unexpected turns. Sometimes it is Heaven, or the good example we set. Sometimes it's somewhere down the road. Think of Joseph, Stephen, Mary, Jesus, Paul, David, Abraham, Sarah. All of them were blessed, but did the blessing look the same and happen the same? Of course we know the answer to that.

It's not so much the movie perhaps as the aftermath...the 40 Days to save your marriage books and such. It's not BAD in the sense that it's truly wicked, but its not a guarantee.

 

[chaz345]

Right Msc.

In the Bible, doing good to others does not result in them loving you for it necessarily, and in life it is equally true. That's not even why you do it, it's because we are supposed to have the character of Christ.

The other thing about someone saying "honestly pursuing the Lord" is that we get right back to here is one person deciding about another persons pursuit of God.

We see here all the time how badly we can all differ on that. There is one poster who, if you were to take their evolving definitions of what that even means, it would require 28 hour days and an army of consultants and counselors to even stay on top of that shape shifter.

"Nice" is confused with pursuit of God

Anyway, the movie, Dalrocks analysis is pretty good I think Im waiting for him to review Courageous

Courageous was different in that it didn't take a situation that was clearly the responsibility of two people and blame it on only one of them. It actually did a pretty good job at simply isolating the man and what he can/should do better without all the dire predictions of what happens if he doesn't. Like I've said, by itself I've got little problem with it. Take the fact that there's nothing similar directed at women and how their failures can set up a negative dynamic and it becomes problematic.

 

[chaz345]

The Bible, and my own life experience show that there are rewards, but that they take unexpected turns. Sometimes it is Heaven, or the good example we set. Sometimes it's somewhere down the road. Think of Joseph, Stephen, Mary, Jesus, Paul, David, Abraham, Sarah. All of them were blessed, but did the blessing look the same and happen the same? Of course we know the answer to that.

It's not so much the movie perhaps as the aftermath...the 40 Days to save your marriage books and such. It's not BAD in the sense that it's truly wicked, but its not a guarantee.

It's also interesting to note that in all of those cases the blessing took place only after a fairly long period of significant trials. And in many cases the trials came after a relatively good time in their lives.

 

[JaneFW]

But your viewing my calls for blame to be placed equally as a men versus woman thing only proves the point that the default norm is blame the man.

Refusing to engage in your point-making proves your point. Okay.

I never learn.

 

[McScribe]

It's also interesting to note that in all of those cases the blessing took place only after a fairly long period of significant trials. And in many cases the trials came after a relatively good time in their lives.

This is one of the hardest lessons of all to teach when it comes to being a Christian. Especially because it (to be really blunt) doesn't sound very convincing coming from the average middle class Christian. It does when it comes from someone you know has suffered or has lost much and yet has joy.

 

[chaz345]

Refusing to engage in your point-making proves your point. Okay.

I never learn.

You're not refusing to engage though. You are characterizing a call for equal responsibility as blaming one gender over the other.

 

[Conservativation]

This is one of the hardest lessons of all to teach when it comes to being a Christian. Especially because it (to be really blunt) doesn't sound very convincing coming from the average middle class Christian. It does when it comes from someone you know has suffered or has lost much and yet has joy.

Not only is it hard to teach....heck its just not taught!....well, OR...its OVER taught. One or the other

 

[JaneFW]

The Bible, and my own life experience show that there are rewards, but that they take unexpected turns. Sometimes it is Heaven, or the good example we set. Sometimes it's somewhere down the road. Think of Joseph, Stephen, Mary, Jesus, Paul, David, Abraham, Sarah. All of them were blessed, but did the blessing look the same and happen the same? Of course we know the answer to that.

It's not so much the movie perhaps as the aftermath...the 40 Days to save your marriage books and such. It's not BAD in the sense that it's truly wicked, but its not a guarantee.

I'll bear it in mind.

I don't deal in these movies or marriage books any more. Simply not interested.

 

[mattyb1982]

I'm not getting into your men vs. women thing Chaz.

That's not a men vs women question, though your reluctance to answer that simple benign question is quite illuminating.

 

[McScribe]

There's this one movie I like for it's 'manning up' message. That's Lord of the Rings, with Aragorn doing his duty even though he is sure he'll probably mess it up, and does mess it up but keeps going. He is encouraged by his fiance to do what's right even though it means they will be apart, and encourages her dad to support him even though her dad isn't sure he's the right guy for her. He does all the stuff he does without real expectation of reward, and you kind of get the feeling he's surprised to find himself king and he is obviously surprised to find he got the girl at the end.

Sorry, I guess that's a huge spoiler for whatever people haven't seen the movie. Anyway you should rent it or buy it cheap--it has a giant spider, cavalry charges, sword fights and lots of mountain vistas in it, and other cool stuff. Way better than Fireproof. In fact if Fireproof had had that stuff in it I might have been distracted enough to think I enjoyed it for a while.

 

[Created2Write]

I'm not talking men versus women, I'm talking about a problem with the movie. I'd have the exact same objection if the movie blamed all of the maritial problems on say a woman's long term sexual refusal and portrayed her husband looking at porn or starting down the road to an affair as an understandable response. But such a movie would never be made in the first place.

As it was written the movie places all of the blame for the crappy state of the marriage on one person and excuses the other's wrong actions as an understandable response that's just plain wrong no matter which person the blame is placed on.

But your viewing my calls for blame to be placed equally as a men versus woman thing only proves the point that the default norm is blame the man.

I agree.