This Is My Fireproof Thread

[JaneFW]

Wow. Well you won't burn my copy, and I like the movie, and I don't care what someone else says. And, really, burning movies? Shall we burn books that we don't like next? And then, perhaps, people?

 

[Luther073082]

Luther, honestly, are you saying that it's impossible for miraculous things to happen?

No I'm saying that God promises things, but earthly happiness is not among them. Concentrate on the things God does promise you, and not on the things he doesn't. Teach about God's real promises, not some fake promises for itching ears.

Miracles do happen, and yes all of that is certainly possible. But when we make movies or books or anything about the faith we have to stick with the miracles that God does in fact promise to us. Not what God might do or could do, but the things we know he WILL do. Christian movies and books are also teachers of the faith, and when the faith is mis-taught, its heresy. Heresy is the most destructive force the church has ever faced or will ever face.

It would be one thing if you were venting about a real cinema abortion like "Phantom Menace" but another altogether about this. Yeah the movie has some nonsense in it, but just to advise you....if you're calling this movies perspective heresy then you do realize that you're also pointing the finger at some Christians here who believe similar things.

So? Heresy is heresy. I'm not going to miff my words about the prosperity heresy to avoid offending people. That is what it is. You can't simpily stop preaching the truth just because it offends some people.

Luther - heresy is a strong word and the one you chose to describe the movie. That, in this case, is what I responded to.

It is the proper word.

I'm not at all disagreeing that they did a poor job of making it crystal clear their church is not advocating a prosperity gospel. I am saying that calling the movie heresy, and bolding stating that the intended message of the movie is "commit your life to God and you'll get everything you ever wanted" is heading into hyperbole.

If that isn't the message then what is?? Is the message praise God even when you arn't getting things your way? If thats the message the movie is hypocritical and could have been better written by a 5 year old. Because you don't send that message by making everything go the main character's way. Thats not real man, its not real life. I became a beliver, no one gave me a truck, and I didn't within a few months just get everything I wanted out of life. But the thing was. . . I didn't expect that, because in the bible, God never promises anything like that. Thats fantasy Christian land that isn't real, its all a farce, its made up. It feels good to itching ears but its not real because its not biblical. Its not anything God promises at all, not even close. Nor is it anything that you can relate to the values. Christian values can improve one's life with work, you can see that in fireproof, which is why I have no problems with the teachings of that film. But its real life, its real things that Christian values can change and make better with work. Not because its magical or some miracle. But because it works.

From everything I've read about Sherwood they do not teach prosperity gospel. They indicated they tried to put things in the movie to make that clear. That is wasn't clear enough does not change their intent. That they didn't do a great job of it does not make them heretics.

I didn't say they where heretics but their movie teaches heresy. There is a difference. If one intentionally teaches heresy then they are heretics. But if one unintentially teaches heresy, or intentionally taught heresy but has repented and recanted, then they have taught heresy, but are not necessarily heretics. So I recognize that may not have been their intention, but that was the result none the less.

God can and has done much more for some of his people - when it fits His intentions. (Or should we just throw all the plays and movies about Joseph out because, taken in isolation, it sure seems to be prosperity gospel). It is just as wrong to deny that God can, and has, done miraculous things in the lives of some of his followers as it is to say that He will always do so if you are faithful enough. Both of those try to limit God.

The problem is that these movies are ment to send a message, not to portray biblical events. People understand that you are portraying biblical events. In the Passion of the Christ, no one is going to read that as "I can be crucified and ressurected too!" because its understood you are portraying a biblical event.

But in facing the giants its not a biblical event, and a lot of believers and non-believers will read it as "Godliness gets you stuff." or at the very least "Godliness fixes your life."

Wow. Well you won't burn my copy, and I like the movie, and I don't care what someone else says. And, really, burning movies? Shall we burn books that we don't like next? And then, perhaps, people?

Not people of course that is murder. And I was not suggesting that I was going to go destroy the movie or had any intention too. My suggestion was that the faith would be better off if this movie did not exist and was never seen again. It is heretical and unhealthy to the faith and to the church.

We have to be willing to call a spade a spade if we are going to protect the church from the heresies and people which seek to destroy it. But now we are living in a time which Christians do not understand the destructiveness of false doctrines. So they will sadly often embrace anything or anyone that claims to embrace God.

I can tell you also for certain that it was the work of several heretics, false prophets, and wolves in sheeps clothing that kept me away from the church when I was younger.

Thats why I'm not afraid to anathmatize heretics and heresies and just be willing to call things for what they are. If for nothing else to present an absolutly crystal clear picture of what teachings we as Christians do and do not accept.

Like it or not we Christians are partially responsible for the eternal fate of someone who rejects the faith because of a misunderstanding of its teachings that we have allowed and helped to create. So if there are times in which we are not crystal clear about exactly what we are teaching and someone misinterpretes that as a teaching of the Christian faith, rejects the gospels because of said teaching and goes in hell for it. WE ARE PARTIALLY RESPONSIBLE BEFORE GOD FOR THE FATE OF THAT POOR SOUL. . . There is never a reason, or excuse for us to not be crystal clear about our teachings in every way that we can be every single second of every single day.

Thats why I won't ever say anything about that movie without saying its heresy.

 

[McScribe]

No I'm saying that God promises things, but earthly happiness is not among them. Concentrate on the things God does promise you, and not on the things he doesn't. Teach about God's real promises, not some fake promises for itching ears.

Miracles do happen, and yes all of that is certainly possible. But when we make movies or books or anything about the faith we have to stick with the miracles that God does in fact promise to us. Christian movies and books are also teachers of the faith, and when the faith is mis-taught, its heresy. Heresy is the most destructive force the church has ever faced or will ever face.



So? Heresy is heresy. I'm not going to miff my words about the prosperity heresy to avoid offending people. That is what it is. You can't simpily stop preaching the truth just because it offends some people.



It is the proper word.



If that isn't the message then what is?? Is the message praise God even when you arn't getting things your way? If thats the message the movie is hypocritical and could have been better written by a 5 year old. Because you don't send that message by making everything go the main character's way. Thats not real man, its not real life. I became a beliver, no one gave me a truck, and I didn't within a few months just get everything I wanted out of life. But the thing was. . . I didn't expect that, because in the bible, God never promises anything like that. Thats fantasy Christian land that isn't real, its all a farce, its made up. It feels good but its not real because its not biblical. Its not anything God promises at all, not even close. Nor is it anything that you can relate to the values. Christian values can improve one's life with work, you can see that in fireproof, which is why I have no problems with the teachings of that film. But its real life, its real things that Christian values can change and make better with work. Not because its magical or some miracle. But because it works.



I didn't say they where heretics but their movie teaches heresy. There is a difference. If one intentionally teaches heresy then they are heretics. But if one unintentially teaches heresy, or intentionally taught heresy but has repented and recanted, then they have taught heresy, but are not necessarily heretics. So I recognize that may not have been their intention, but that was the result none the less.



The problem is that these movies are ment to send a message, not to portray biblical events. People understand that you are portraying biblical events. In the Passion of the Christ, no one is going to read that as "I can be crucified and ressurected too!" because its understood you are portraying a biblical event.

But in facing the giants its not a biblical event, and a lot of believers and non-believers will read it as "Godliness gets you stuff." or at the very least "Godliness fixes your life."



Not people of course that is murder. And I was not suggesting that I was going to go destroy the movie or had any intention too. My suggestion was that the faith would be better off if this movie did not exist and was never seen again. It is heretical and unhealthy to the faith and to the church.

We have to be willing to call a spade a spade if we are going to protect the church from the heresies and people which seek to destroy it. But now we are living in a time which Christians do not understand the destructiveness of false doctrines. So they will sadly often embrase anything or anyone that claims to embrace God.

I can tell you also for certain that it was the work of several heretics, false prophets, and wolves in sheeps clothing that kept me away from the church when I was younger.

Thats why I'm not afraid to anathmatize heretics and heresies and just be willing to call things for what they are. If for nothing else to present an absolutly crystal clear picture of what teachings we as Christians do and do not accept.

Honestly. The movie is kind of dumb and overly sentimental, but you are way over stating your case.

First of all, it is not a prosperity gospel movie. It's a movie about faith. You can see it as distorted if you want to, but if you think about it there are no thunderbolts, no flying houses, nothing but good will because of changed hearts and renewed efforts. And it's not like the guy converted. He made a decision to live by faith. ( < staff edit > ) Relax and let it go.

 

[Luther073082]

He made a decision to live by faith and then suddenly got everything he wanted. . . Including a child.

You know sadly much of the movie could have been fixed if it would have ended with, she doesn't get pregnant and he says "You know if God doesn't want us to have a child, then God's will be done." At no point in that movie did that main character EVER have to surrender and say "Thy will be done."

The whole movie is about "I trust in you God." and then "My will is done, My will is done, My will is done."

yeah thats not prosperity heresy at all.

The real Gospel, the real message of Christianity is learning to say "I trust you God." and "Thy will be done". A big part of that message is that God's will isn't the same as ours. That isn't a fun message to hear and sometimes it outright hurts and it sucks.

A man who's had everything in his life go wrong and go against him, and something that is clearly not his will and still praises God and says "thy will be done" is a far better movie and more inspiring story then someone who lives by faith and gets everything.

Why hasn't Sherwood made a movie about the guy, I belive he was of Korean decent, in Cali several years ago who while he was at work had a fighter crash into his house and kill his whole family and still at their funeral was praising God. And how his church rallied around him and supported him in Christian love. Thats a movie Christians need to see, thats someone who's really living by faith.

Where is that movie? We won't see it. . . why because it doesn't scratch anybody's itching ears. Its real life, its getting hit in the face so hard it knocks you cold, and then getting up and saying "Thy will be done." They can take away everything from me but they can't take God from me, because he is mine and I am his.

 

[Luther073082]

This is what Sherwood needs to make a movie about.

Dead Family's Dad: 'Pray for Fighter Pilot' - 'Tell me' how to deal with this, pleads grieving father

 

[McScribe]

The message of Christianity is actually that we are saved from our sins by Christ. Furthermore we are urged to pray, and pray for actual things. You will find many prayers in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and most of them are for things to happen. Your will be done is also found. It's great that you are inspired by the story of that family and their tragic horror that happened and them praising God as a result. But you sound like someone who would say that the story of the martyrdom of Stephen is more relevant than the story of Daniel because Daniel lived. Or that the story of Joseph is just prosperity gospel nonsense...I mean what's with those dreams of grandeur anyway?

It may not seem like getting a truck is a good message...but he didn't pray for a truck. He renewed his faith and something miraculous happened...but in reality in the movie a person gave him that truck out of gratitude because of something good he did for his son. So tell me exactly how that moment is heresy.

 

[Luther073082]

The message of Christianity is actually that we are saved from our sins by Christ. Furthermore we are urged to pray, and pray for actual things. You will find many prayers in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and most of them are for things to happen. Your will be done is also found. It's great that you are inspired by the story of that family and their tragic horror that happened and them praising God as a result. But you sound like someone who would say that the story of the martyrdom of Stephen is more relevant than the story of Daniel because Daniel lived. Or that the story of Joseph is just prosperity gospel nonsense...I mean what's with those dreams of grandeur anyway?

It may not seem like getting a truck is a good message...but he didn't pray for a truck. He renewed his faith and something miraculous happened...but in reality in the movie a person gave him that truck out of gratitude because of something good he did for his son. So tell me exactly how that moment is heresy.

Because the recommitting to the faith gets him everything he ever wanted. Not something God promises at all.

Its not just the truck, its the football team winning and the baby too. The movie could have presented a more realistic picture of the faith if at least one thing that he wanted he would not have gotten and he had praised God anyways.

And actually I find Stephen more relavent because his story is one of the new covenant, not the old covenant. That isn't to say that the stories of the old covenant are completly irrelevant because much can be learned from them WHEN properly balanced by what we learn in the new testament.

Also its worth noting that Jesus said we would suffer for our faith and that our faith would cause divisions. That in fact is a promise that God does give. Now I definatly think its worth noting that the sufferings of others far exceed some. I've never been tortured for my faith, but many have. But my faith has caused some divisions in my family and other problems.

Martyrdom is also more relatvent given our culture. Few people in our culture have difficulty praising God when things are going their way. But when things don't go their way, thats when they have problems. The church could learn great things from praising God when things are going bad and learning that God's will isn't the same as ours.

Facing the Giants scratches itchy ears and thats all it does. Its a happy story with a happy ending and everything is happy. People like it, its an escape from reality thats what most movies are anyways. But our God is a real God of real life, and in real life not everything has a happy ending and not everything is happy. If we're gonna just make a movie about faith (and not what Christian values can change.) then present faith as the faith of happy moments and of sad moments. The faith that is always there, both when God's will is the same as yours and when its not. And the when its not is important too.

And the reason I want a movie about this is because Dong Yon Yoon knows more about faith, a real life faith, then all of us put together. His story is something we could all learn from. But it won't scratch anyone's ears. His story doesn't have a happy ending, at least not yet. But maybe just maybe his story has something that we can all use. A peace that really does pass all understanding.

 

[McScribe]

Whatever Luther.

 

[mattyb1982]

I just re-watched it again, didn't hate it as much I did last time.

Like others said, it has the "Man's Fault" issue with it.

A few things that I thought about when watching the movie.

1. Caleb was an angry guy, I dont know if that was from not having sex, and we all get cranky when we need a release and dont get it, or if he was just a really angry person.

2. The wife doesn't take any responsibility. Her husband literally risks his life for his job, and she does what? a PR rep at a hospital? LOL

Then she's complaining about shopping, housework? blah blah blah

3. The porn thing. Yes it IS sinful, but it's not adultery. And it's not a reason for the wife to deny relations with the husband. I think what happened was the occurrence went down and he turned to porn. And that created a bitter feedback loop. What I found funny was when the wife said, she couldnt or wouldnt compete with the porn. There is no competition, guys dont want that woman in the porn, he wants all of them! LOL, no really I think it boils down to Women's hypergamy instinct, because it's in their biology to only desire one man at a time, they think it's the same thing with men.

4. The wife's work friends, weren't really friends at all. You deserve blah blah blah, a REAL FRIEND, helps you to do right. A dynamic I have seen in real life, and this is something some of my female friends have told me is true. Some female "friends" will sabotage or put thoughts into the woman's head because they dont want her to be any happier than they are. Got to be careful about the influences we let into our lives.

5. The wife harping about the mother's hospital bed and expensive wheelchair. This I can really see happening in real life. This was a want not a need. The husband should get his boat, guy deserved it. But in the end, to me the moral to the story was he basically bought her affections.

I like Kirk, his wife in real life is still hot, so he's doing a good job in his marriage from what I can see. 2 pats on the back there-

 

[Tannic]

Fire Proof was ok to me.
Facing the Giants... I liked it better because of Football but it's no where near my favorites. I bought fire proof and watched it five times. I got the message but it heavily focused of the man being the issue.

LOTR - I have all three movies and I wouldn't mind reading the book as well.
KFPanda - love them both. I've pretty much watched just about any cartoon movie out there.

Bought faith like potatoes and it was ok. I watched it twice and I haven't picked it up since.

 

[Niffer]

Blind post:

I expected "Fireproof" to be much cheesier than it was.
Both hubby and I enjoyed it, but I wouldn't give it an oscar either.

- Niffer

 

[Niffer]

Did you actually use 'heresy' in casual conversation? That's fun.

Facing the Giants was not so bad if you..,wait did you pay to see it? I saw it on YouTube. No wonder you're bitter.

I like the scene in Fireproof where the Rebels defend agains the Death Star attack on Yavin.

Wait. Wrong movie. Guess I just didn't like it.

LOL McScribe..you're awesome!!
The bolded actually made me lol..I think it was the: "That's fun."

-Niff

 

[BigDaddy4]

Fireproof was an okay movie if you go into it with guarded expectations. this is not some big budget Hollywood blockbuster, but it has a good message.

I do wish it would have dealt with the wife's behavior a little more, though.

And to say that Facing the Giants is heretical for teaching a prosperity gospel is about as absurd as saying King David preached the same.

"...So be strong, act like a man, 3 and observe what the LORD your God requires: Walk in obedience to him, and keep his decrees and commands, his laws and regulations, as written in the Law of Moses. Do this so that you may prosper in all you do and wherever you go 4 and that the LORD may keep his promise to me: ‘If your descendants watch how they live, and if they walk faithfully before me with all their heart and soul, you will never fail to have a successor on the throne of Israel.’ " (1 Kings 2:2-4)

When we walk in obedience to God and His will for our lives, He will bless us. Grant (the FB coach) changed his thinking from trying to win football games to teaching his players about honoring God. If you don't get that out of the movie, then you weren't paying much attention to it.

 

[McScribe]

LOL McScribe..you're awesome!!
The bolded actually made me lol..I think it was the: "That's fun."

-Niff

Glad you enjoyed. I think BigDaddy made a good general point about Facing the Giants. In a way both movies suggest that it is hard to do something worthy when there seems to be little reward for doing it. And I think Luther was making the point that sometimes there IS little reward that we ever see.

 

[Conservativation]

Whats the next great Christian movie that we all have to go see and heap praise on?
Did anyone see the most recent one? Whats it called? About dads....I cant remember, was it an amazingly challenging poignant movie calling all dads to step up and Re (times a thousand) commit?

 

[chaz345]

Whats the next great Christian movie that we all have to go see and heap praise on?
Did anyone see the most recent one? Whats it called? About dads....I cant remember, was it an amazingly challenging poignant movie calling all dads to step up and Re (times a thousand) commit?

Courageous wasn't as bad in that respect as I was afraid it was going to be. There was no horribly mutually dysfunctional marriage that was saved only through the guy finally "getting it". By itself, I've got no problems with it. The fact that there's nothing similarly targeted towards women however is a huge problem. Although to be fair, there is a book on the movie's website targeted towards women that might maybe possibly(tiny chance) actually speak to them in a constructive way. More likely though it's a how to manual on how to get one's husband to "step up".

 

[Conservativation]

Courageous wasn't as bad in that respect as I was afraid it was going to be. There was no horribly mutually dysfunctional marriage that was saved only through the guy finally "getting it". By itself, I've got no problems with it. The fact that there's nothing similarly targeted towards women however is a huge problem. Although to be fair, there is a book on the movie's website targeted towards women that might maybe possibly(tiny chance) actually speak to them in a constructive way. More likely though it's a how to manual on how to get one's husband to "step up".

I read thru the many programs and books they offer on the site, study materials etc...they all centered on the woman "supporting the husbands rehab"...essentially

 

[JaneFW]

The Muppet Movie got some good reivews. Very interesting dynamic between Miss Piggy and Kermit.

 

[marierose95]

Fireproof is a nice enough drama with a good message. The production was not that great. The movie did well in mingling humor and serious scenes. Good for everyone, married or not. Involved in a relationship or not. This makes you think of who and what you are and how much better you can be if you have the Lord on your side. I would recommend this movie for everyone.

 

[mattyb1982]

Fireproof is a nice enough drama with a good message. The production was not that great. The movie did well in mingling humor and serious scenes. Good for everyone, married or not. Involved in a relationship or not. This makes you think of who and what you are and how much better you can be if you have the Lord on your side. I would recommend this movie for everyone.

what was the message you took away after watching the movie?