This generation

[Zao is life]

If He intended it to be later, this is how He would have had to say it.

And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. They will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that they are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. “Then they will deliver them to tribulation, and will kill them, and they will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come. “Therefore when they see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Then if anyone says to them, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ they should not believe him. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told them in advance. So if they say to them, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ they should not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ they should not believe them. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. “Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, they know that summer is near; so, them too, when they see all these things, they shouod recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to them, that generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

In the Olivet Discourse Jesus was not speaking of any other generation than the generation that would be alive at the end of the Age before his return, because this is the other thing His disciples asked Him about when He said Jerusalem was going to be destroyed.

The only thing Jesus said about Jerusalem and its temple was that armies would surround Jerusalem and there would be wrath upon its people, but He said nothing more about what would become that generation (Luke 21:20-24).

From verse 4 to verse 31 of Matthew 24, Jesus is speaking of the generation of Christians that would face the great tribulation of Christians, and their redemption when Christ returns. The same goes for Mark 6:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 and Luke 21:25-28.

There is nothing about the temple in Jerusalem or about the city of Jerusalem in any of those verses (Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 & 25-28).

Those who in their imagination ADD the physical city of Jerusalem and its temple to the above verses therefore also quite naturally falsely assume that the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34 refers to the generation that was alive in 70 A.D.

The truth though, is that it's referring to the generation that will be alive when the son of perdition seats himself up in the New Testament Temple immediately before Christ returns and consumes the man of sin by the breath of His mouth and the brightness of His coming.

 

[claninja]

Even if it was the last hour before the destruction of city and temple, how do we know it did not result in the return of Christ? There is a way of knowing, found in the scriptures. What is it?

Again, depends on what you mean by “return”….

Jesus said “this generation” will not pass away until all these things occur.

 

[Zao is life]

Again, depends on what you mean by “return”….

Jesus said “this generation” will not pass away until all these things occur.

In the Olivet Discourse Jesus was not speaking of any other generation than the generation that would be alive at the end of the Age before his return, because this is the other thing His disciples asked Him about when He said Jerusalem was going to be destroyed.

The only thing Jesus said about Jerusalem and its temple was that armies would surround Jerusalem and there would be wrath upon its people, but He said nothing more about what would become that generation (Luke 21:20-24).

From verse 4 to verse 31 of Matthew 24, Jesus is speaking of the generation of Christians that would face the great tribulation of Christians, and their redemption when Christ returns. The same goes for Mark 6:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 and Luke 21:25-28.

There is nothing about the temple in Jerusalem or about the city of Jerusalem in any of those verses (Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 & 25-28).

Those who in their imagination ADD the physical city of Jerusalem and its temple to the above verses therefore also quite naturally falsely assume that the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34 refers to the generation that was alive in 70 A.D.

The truth though, is that it's referring to the generation that will be alive when the son of perdition seats himself up in the New Testament Temple immediately before Christ returns and consumes the man of sin by the breath of His mouth and the brightness of His coming.

 

[claninja]

In the Olivet Discourse Jesus was not speaking of any other generation than the generation that would be alive at the end of the Age before his return, because this is the other thing His disciples asked Him about when He said Jerusalem was going to be destroyed.

The only thing Jesus said about Jerusalem and its temple was that armies would surround Jerusalem and there would be wrath upon its people, but He said nothing more about what would become that generation (Luke 21:20-24).

From verse 4 to verse 31 of Matthew 24, Jesus is speaking of the generation of Christians that would face the great tribulation of Christians, and their redemption when Christ returns. The same goes for Mark 6:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 and Luke 21:25-28.

There is nothing about the temple in Jerusalem or about the city of Jerusalem in any of those verses (Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 & 25-28).

Those who in their imagination ADD the physical city of Jerusalem and its temple to the above verses therefore also quite naturally falsely assume that the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34 refers to the generation that was alive in 70 A.D.

The truth though, is that it's referring to the generation that will be alive when the son of perdition seats himself up in the New Testament Temple immediately before Christ returns and consumes the man of sin by the breath of His mouth and the brightness of His coming.

1.) jesus was talking about the literal temple building. That’s the context. That’s the what the disciples asked about.

your argument is that Jesus didn’t answer the disciples question?

matthew 24:1-4
As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings.2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

2.) Jesus said “this” generation. Jesus did not say “that” generation.

did Jesus’s generation experience the events of the olivet discourse? Yes

 

[Zao is life]

I'm assuming your main point involves this part, right?


they know that summer is near; so, them too, when they see all these things, they shouod recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to them, that generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

Instead of----

you know that summer is near; so, when you see all these things, you shouod recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.


The problem with the latter interpretation if taking it to literally mean the ones Jesus was addressing at the time, and assuming 70 AD is meant here, I have already argued somewhere in this thread, or maybe another one, that this means Jesus lied to some of them, such as Andrew, because he certainly wasn't still around in 70 AD in order to see all those things involving that. That means this is what Jesus said to Andrew since he was present at the time. Andrew, you know that summer is near; so, when you, Andrew, see all these things, you, Andrew, shouod recognize that He is near, right at the door.

Mark 13:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,


We at least know these 4 were present at the time. And we at least know 3 of these never lived to see 70 AD.

In their imagination they add Jerusalem and its temple to the verses that are speaking only about the generation of Christians that would experience great tribulation (when the man of sin seats himself up in the New Testament temple in the days leading up to Christ returning and consuming the man of sin by the breath of his mouth and the brightness of His coming), and it's because of this that they falsely assume the generation Jesus is speaking about, is the generation that was alive in 70 A.D.

 

[Zao is life]

1.) jesus was talking about the literal temple building. That’s the context. That’s the what the disciples asked about.

your argument is that Jesus didn’t answer the disciples question?

matthew 24:1-4
As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings.2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

2.) Jesus said “this” generation. Jesus did not say “that” generation.

did Jesus’s generation experience the events of the olivet discourse? Yes

The disciples asked for the sign of His coming and the end of the Age, so after mentioning that Jerusalem and its temple would be destroyed (before they asked their question), Jesus told them about the tribulation Christians would face immediately before His return (after they asked the question they asked). It's this generation He is talking about.

You ignore facts to hold onto a false dichotomy.

 

[DavidPT]

1.) jesus was talking about the literal temple building. That’s the context. That’s the what the disciples asked about.

your argument is that Jesus didn’t answer the disciples question?

matthew 24:1-4
As Jesus left the temple and was walking away, His disciples came up to Him to point out its buildings.2“Do you see all these things?” He replied. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”3While Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

2.) Jesus said “this” generation. Jesus did not say “that” generation.

did Jesus’s generation experience the events of the olivet discourse? Yes

How many end of the world scenarios should we assume are being meant by the following? Just one, or more than one? In the KJV if doing an exact phrase search for the following---end of the world---the following passages are the result in the NT.

Matthew 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

Matthew 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

In Matthew 24:3---and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world---which of these other passages should we apply the end of the world meant in this verse to?

What about Hebrews 9:26? Does Hebrews 9:26 answer the questions asked in Matthew 24:3---and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? It doesn't look like it to me, therefore the end of the world meant in Hebrews 9:26 can't be meaning the end of the world meant in Matthew 24:3.

Let's try another passage or two. What about Matthew 13:39 and Matthew 13:49? Do those answer the questions asked in Matthew 24:3---and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? If they do that means Matthew 24:3 can't be meaning the first century unless Matthew 13:39 and Matthew 13:49 are also meaning the first century.

Since Hebrews 9:26 is fulfilled in the end of this world, and that it was already fulfilled prior to the end of this world asked about in Matthew 24:3, this tells us that the end of the world involves an era of time and that it eventually literally leads to the end of the world, meaning what is recorded in Matthew 13 concerning the end of the world, which in turn is meaning the same end of the world asked about in Matthew 24:3.

 

[Zao is life]

Since Hebrews 9:26 is fulfilled in the end of this world, and that it was already fulfilled prior to the end of this world asked about in Matthew 24:3, this tells us that the end of the world involves an era of time and that it eventually literally leads to the end of the world, meaning what is recorded in Matthew 13 concerning the end of the world, which in turn is meaning the same end of the world asked about in Matthew 24:3.

Exactly. So Hebrews is telling us that the end of the Age began 40 years before the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple, and what follows in Hebrews 9 just two verses after Hebrews 9:26, tells us which generation Jesus was speaking about in Matthew 24:34:

25 Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, even as the high priest enters into the Holy of Holies every year with the blood of others
26 (for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world), but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many. And to those who look for Him He shall appear the second time without sin to salvation.

That's not talking about the generation of unbelieving Jews who experienced God's wrath in 70 A.D - it's talking about the generation of Christians who would go through great tribulation when the son of perdition seats himself up in the New Testament Tabernacle and claims to be God.

 

[DavidPT]

Exactly. So Hebrews is telling us that the end of the Age began 40 years before the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple, and what follows in Hebrews 9 just two verses after Hebrews 9:26, tells us which generation Jesus was speaking about in Matthew 24:34:

25 Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, even as the high priest enters into the Holy of Holies every year with the blood of others
26 (for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world), but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many. And to those who look for Him He shall appear the second time without sin to salvation.

That's not talking about the generation of unbelieving Jews who experienced God's wrath in 70 A.D - it's talking about the generation of Christians who would go through great tribulation when the son of perdition seats himself up in the New Testament Tabernacle and claims to be God.

Great insight as usual. You, me, and even SJ, are basically on the same page in regards to much of this, therefore, it baffles me when it comes to the AOD, that only you and I are on the same page concerning that, out of the 3 I listed, when you would think we all 3 should be. And this has zero to do with Premil vs Amil, but has more to do with what Jesus was meaning in the OD, including the portion involving the AOD, vs Preterism. The way Preterists in this thread are interpreting the OD, it equals full Preterism not Partial, because if it was the latter they wouldn't be applying every single thing Jesus said in the OD to that of the first century. This is not implying that they are full Preterists in general, but that they show no sign of partial Preterism via their interpretation of the OD.

To show what I'm meaning here in order to not get misunderstood, consider the following example.


Matthew 27:1 When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death:
2 And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor.
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.

I take every single bit of this to mean events that have already been fulfilled, and they were fulfilled in the first century, and that they are never fulfilled at a later time as well. That makes my interpretation of this passage full Preterism, not partial Preterism, yet I'm not remotely a full Preterist. In the same way I'm not calling myself a full Preterist here, neither am I calling any Preterists in this thread full Preterists either, I'm calling their interpretation of the OD in particular full Preterism since their interpretation doesn't allow for partial Preterism.

 

[Hammster]

I don't believe that Hammster. Our understanding comes from the providence of God through His Spirit in us. Hear the words of Christ as He spoke to an original audience "you" alive at that time, and tell me if you limit His words to them, or that the original audience would understand His promise of the Spirit differently than believers throughout the ages even though Christ is speaking directly to "you" (them).

John 14:16-21 (KJV) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

That last sentence should clear it up.

 

[Hammster]

Here too, all of chapter 16 of John, spoken to those living at the time, but certainly applicable to every believer regardless the age we live in. All the words of Christ are speaking to His church, as well as to the original audience. There is not an exception with the Olivet Discourse.

John 16:1-33 (KJV) These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you. But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou? But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father. Then said some of his disciples among themselves, What is this that he saith unto us, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me: and, Because I go to the Father? They said therefore, What is this that he saith, A little while? we cannot tell what he saith. Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye inquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy. A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world. And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you. Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb. Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God. Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe? Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

When were you scattered?

 

[Hammster]

In the Olivet Discourse Jesus was not speaking of any other generation than the generation that would be alive at the end of the Age before his return, because this is the other thing His disciples asked Him about when He said Jerusalem was going to be destroyed.

The only thing Jesus said about Jerusalem and its temple was that armies would surround Jerusalem and there would be wrath upon its people, but He said nothing more about what would become that generation (Luke 21:20-24).

From verse 4 to verse 31 of Matthew 24, Jesus is speaking of the generation of Christians that would face the great tribulation of Christians, and their redemption when Christ returns. The same goes for Mark 6:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 and Luke 21:25-28.

There is nothing about the temple in Jerusalem or about the city of Jerusalem in any of those verses (Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 & 25-28).

Those who in their imagination ADD the physical city of Jerusalem and its temple to the above verses therefore also quite naturally falsely assume that the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34 refers to the generation that was alive in 70 A.D.

The truth though, is that it's referring to the generation that will be alive when the son of perdition seats himself up in the New Testament Temple immediately before Christ returns and consumes the man of sin by the breath of His mouth and the brightness of His coming.

If you start in Mathew 23, this is all cleared up. Let me know if you still need assistance.

 

[claninja]

The disciples asked for the sign of His coming and the end of the Age, so after mentioning that Jerusalem and its temple would be destroyed (before they asked their question), Jesus told them about the tribulation Christians would face immediately before His return (after they asked the question they asked). It's this generation He is talking about.

You ignore facts to hold onto a false dichotomy.

So just to clarify, you are arguing that the disciples asked 2 completely unrelated questions?

 

[claninja]

Since Hebrews 9:26 is fulfilled in the end of this world, and that it was already fulfilled prior to the end of this world asked about in Matthew 24:3, this tells us that the end of the world involves an era of time and that it eventually literally leads to the end of the world, meaning what is recorded in Matthew 13 concerning the end of the world, which in turn is meaning the same end of the world asked about in Matthew 24:3.

the author of Hebrews said it was the “last days” and the “consummation of the ages”

Hebrews 1:2 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world

Hebrews 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

the author of Hebrews also said Christ would come “in a little while” and “without delay”.

hebrews 10:37 For, “Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay.”

So, not following your argument, as the author of Hebrews was one of those from “this generation”.

 

[rwb]

When were you scattered?

John 11:52 (KJV) And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

John 10:16 (KJV) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

 

[Hammster]

John 11:52 (KJV) And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

John 10:16 (KJV) And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Why are you now jumping all over the place?

 

[Zao is life]

So just to clarify, you are arguing that the disciples asked 2 completely unrelated questions?

Did the disciples know that there would be 1,950+ years between the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple and the great tribulation of the saints in the days immediately leading up to the return of Christ?

For sure, they asked two unrelated questions. They just did not know it at the time. Just because Jesus did not tell them about the long time-period between the one event and the other does not mean Jesus did not speak about it in the Olivet Discourse and elsewhere. It's an unfortunate truth that flies in the face of your theory that the apostles recorded everything Jesus had said (not only the part you want to be what it's all about).

 

[Zao is life]

If you start in Mathew 23, this is all cleared up. Let me know if you still need assistance.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not!
38 Behold, your house is left to you desolate.
39 For I say to you, You shall not see Me from now on until you say, "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.

1 And Jesus went out and departed from the temple. And His disciples came to Him to show Him the buildings of the temple.
2 And Jesus said to them, Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, There shall not be left here one stone on another that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the world? Matthew 23:37-Matthew 24:3.

Your argument?

Oh yes, your argument is that just because Jesus mentioned the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, this means that when the disciples, who had no idea of knowing at the time that there would be 1,950+ years in-between the one event and the other, asked Him when these things would be, and what the sign would be of His coming and of the end of the Age, Jesus only answered the first part of their question.

Did Jesus tell them when the destruction of Jerusalem would come?

No, he did not. They still had no idea.

He did tell them that when they see the armies gathering against Jerusalem, they should flee, because, He said,

"But woe to those who are with child, and to those suckling in those days! For there shall be great distress (ἀνάγκη anánkē) in the land and wrath (ὀργή orgḗ) upon this people." (Luke 21:23).

Did He give them the sign of His coming and of the end of the Age in His reply?

Yes, He did: From verse 4 to verse 31 of Matthew 24, Jesus is speaking of the generation of Christians that would face the great tribulation of Christians, and their redemption when Christ returns. The same goes for Mark 6:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 and Luke 21:25-28.

There is nothing about the temple in Jerusalem or about the city of Jerusalem in any of those verses (Matthew 24:4-31; Mark 13:6-27 and Luke 21:8-19 & 25-28).

Your thesis is based on the myth that the words tribulation and wrath mean the same thing. But nothing is further from the truth.

There are only two New Testament references to tribulation experienced by non-Christians:-

1. Of all who do evil: Romans 2:9.

2. Of the world as repayment for bringing tribulation upon the saints: 2 Thessalonians 1:6.

There are no other New Testament mentions of tribulation as the experience of those who are not Christians.

Here is the list of New Testament verses talking about the persecution and tribulation of Jesus, the apostles, and Christians:-

Persecution: Of Jesus: John 5:16

Persecution of Christians: Matthew 5:10-12; John 15:20; Acts 22:4; Acts 26:11; 1 Corinthians 4:12; 1 Corinthians 15:9; 2 Corinthians 4:9; Galatians 1:13 & 23; Galatians 4:29; Galatians 5:11

Persecution of the woman who gave birth to the Messiah: Revelation 12:13

Tribulation of apostles or Christians: Matthew 13:21 (Parallel: Mark 4:17); Matthew 24:9, 21 & 29 (Parallel Mark 13:19, 24); John 16:33; Acts 11:19; Acts 14:22; Acts 20:23; Romans 5:3; Romans 8:35; Romans 12:12; 2 Corinthians 1:4, 6 & 8; 2 Corinthians 2:4; 2 Corinthians 4:8; 2 Corinthians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 6:4; 2 Corinthians 7:4-5; 2 Corinthians 8:2; Ephesians 3:13; Philippians 1:16; Philippians 4:14; Colossians 1:24; 1 Thessalonians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 & 7; 2 Thessalonians 1:4, 6-7; 2 Timothy 1:8; 2 Timothy 3:11; 2 Timothy 4:5; Hebrews 10:32-33; 1 Peter 5:9; Revelation 1:9; Revelation 2:9-10, 22; Revelation 7:14

Great Tribulation: Mentioned only three times in the New Testament and each time it's the experience of Christians: Revelation 2:22; Revelation 7:14; 'Olivet Discourse': Matthew 24:21 *

* Luke uses the words great distress and wrath in Luke 21:23 (not the word tribulation).

The AoD mentioned in Matthew 24:15 is what Paul later told us will be the final son of perdition seating himself up in the New Testament Temple, and the great tribulation is referring to the experience of Christians.

It's 100% clear by the whole context of the passage in Matthew 24:4-34 that "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 is referring to the generation of Christians who would be alive when the man of sin seats himself up in the New Testament Temple 1,950+ years later.

And because the Greek word used for the holy sanctuary of God (naos) stops being used in reference to the Temple in Jerusalem following the verses talking about the tearing of the veil, and is only used in reference to the church and the temple in heaven after this, it's clear that the temple mentioned in both 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and Revelation 11:1-2 is talking about the New Testament temple:

Tearing of the veil: Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45.

The church and the temple in heaven:

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 & 1 Corinthians 6:19; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 2:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:4; Revelation 3:12; Revelation 7:15; Revelation 11:1-2; Revelation 11:19; Revelation 14:15 & Revelation 14:17; Revelation 15:5-6 & Revelation 15:8; Revelation 16:1 & Revelation 16:17; Revelation 21:22

All the above verses uses the word naos for temple.

But the Greek continues to use the word hieron in reference to the physical Jerusalem temple complex throughout the New Testament's references to the Jerusalem temple following the tearing of the veil.

Your assertion is based on a premise which ignores 50% of the facts (a false premise).

 

[rwb]

Why are you now jumping all over the place?

Apparently I misunderstood your question: "When were you scattered?"

 

[claninja]

Did the disciples know that there would be 1,950+ years between the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple and the great tribulation of the saints in the days immediately leading up to the return of Christ? .

I would say no, they didn’t believe there would be 1,950+ years between the destruction of Jerusalem and the great tribulation and coming of Christ , because Jesus said “this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”.

such is evidence me by the apostles’ belief in the nearness of Christs coming:

Peter stated it was the “last days” and that the end of all things “had drawn near (perfect tense)”

Acts 2:16-17 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,

1 peter 4:7 The end of all things has drawn near ; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

paul stated the end of the ages had arrived

1 Corinthians 10:11 Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come.

The author of Hebrews stated it was the last days, end of the ages, and that Christ would come in a “little while” and “without delay”

Hebrews 1:2 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world

Hebrews 9:26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

hebrews 10:37 For, “Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay.”

James stated the coming of Christ had drawn near (perfect tense)

James 5:8 8You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord has drawn near.

john stated it was the “last hour”
1 john 2:18 8Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.

Additionally, I believe the biblical accounts of the olivet discourse are parallel.

Question 1
Matthew 24:3a Tell us, when will these things be,

mark 13:4a Tell us, when will these things be

Question 2
Matthew 24:3b and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

mark 13:4b and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished?

therefore I believe “what will be the SIGN of your coming and of the end of the age” = “what will be the SIGN these things will take place”.