This generation

[Jamdoc]

A pregnant woman knows she will have a baby within nine months, but she doesn't know the day or the hour. When Jesus said "about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father," He knew that it would happen within that generation, but just like a woman who is pregnant not knowing the exact day and hour her baby will be born during her pregnancy, Jesus didn't know which day and hour the things he spoke of would occur during that generation.

Within 9 months? Not precisely. even the normal 40 weeks gestation is over 9 months, but it can vary could be 42 weeks, it could actually be 9 months (36 weeks), or it could be earlier, babies born as early as 24 weeks gestation have survived.
Point is, there is uncertainty, and Jesus expressed uncertainty, that's why He gave signs, not dates.

again, and I will bring this up to preterists over and over and rebuke them over and over on this until they start doing as Jesus commanded and watch and pray for His return...

If Jesus came back in AD70
why is there still sin?
why is there still death?

 

[John Mullally]

Per your link, Bro. Woodrow agrees with me in that he associates Matthew 24:30 with the second coming. If that is true, the Matthew 24:34 generation must be our time or a later generation.

Taking all of these things into consideration, we favor the interpretation which applies Matthew 24:30, 31 (and the parallel accounts) to the Second Coming of Christ when he will come with the clouds, in power and great glory; when men shall see him and mourn; when he shall send out angels with the sound of the trumpet to gather together believers to meet the Lord.​

No.

Next installment.

In the first link, Woodrow says that Matthew 24:30 pertains to the second coming.

In the second link he says that Matthew 24:34 was fulfilled in the first century because its phrase "all these things" only pertains to Matt 24:4-26, Matt 24:28-29, and Matt 24:32-33. To Bro. Woodrow, the "all these things" phrase strategically only refers to the portions of Matt 24:4-33 that were plausibly fulfilled in the first century.

Up to this point, Jesus spoke about the overthrow of Jerusalem in answer to the questions he was asked, leaving this original line of speech briefly two times to speak of the Second Coming by way of contrast (Mt. 24:27, 30-31), and then returning to the original questions. After telling of the things that would happen in that generation, the whole discourse now shifts from here on out to the question about the Second Coming and the end of the world. Jesus now states that heaven and earth shall pass away — an expression referring to the end of the age — and that the time of “that day” is not revealed.​

 

[Hammster]

What's your source?

I went through over 30 different English Bible translations on the internet and they agree with me that the event in Matthew 24:30 is world wide. The Complete Jewish Bible and The Darby Translation are the only as they say "all the tribes of the land". See the link below to view all translations:

What Does Matthew 24:30 Mean? "and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on th."

circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;
— Philippians 3:5

It’s tribes here, and it’s tribes in Matthew 24. To my knowledge (and I’ll admit that I haven’t done comprehensive research on this), never is tribe used to describe people outside of the people of Israel. There are other words used to describe other people groups such as nations.

 

[Hammster]

Even if it did just mean Israel, you're missing 10 other tribes that scattered all over the earth. Only Judah, Benjamin and some of Levi were in Jerusalem at that point. So it couldn't possible mean just them. It specifically states "all" the tribes of the earth. Meaning this is a world wide event.

It doesn’t need to be every person from every tribe. The text doesn’t say that.

 

[Hammster]

Every generation is to watch for the signs, because Jesus didn't actually know when it was going to happen.

You keep thinking He knew exactly when this was going to happen, He didn't. Only the Father knows.

Unfortunately for you, I’ve shown that your view cannot be sustained from the text itself. He knew it would happen within a generation. He just didn’t know the exact day.

 

[Hammster]

Firstly, remember that we read a translation. Jesus spoke in Aramaic and our Bibles are a translation of the Greek text.
Grammar therefore; cannot be used to prove a point, as we simply do not know the nuances of what was spoken.

Then; most, all - of the Prophets, incl Jesus, prophesied of future events. That is what prophecy is!
Ezekiel and Jeremiah had the problem of the peoples disbelief of their prophesies, rightly; because what they said wasn't for them. Ezekiel 33:30-33, Jeremiah 20:7-18. Habakkuk 2:3

You can’t make that argument, according to your own rules. You must bow out now, since you have to use grammar to make your argument.

 

[John Mullally]

Firstly, remember that we read a translation. Jesus spoke in Aramaic and our Bibles are a translation of the Greek text.
Grammar therefore; cannot be used to prove a point, as we simply do not know the nuances of what was spoken.

Does this problem apply to all the Gospels and Acts?

 

[JulieB67]

It doesn’t need to be every person from every tribe. The text doesn’t say that.

It specifically states all the tribes from the earth. What the text doesn't state is" from the 2 or 3 tribes shall mourn" which is what you're implying. You're implying only the house of Judah applies to Matthew 24:30. (which includes Benjamin/Levi) and the text definitely doesn't say that.

 

[jgr]

In the first link, Woodrow says that Matthew 24:30 pertains to the second coming.

In the second link he says that Matthew 24:34 was fulfilled in the first century because its phrase "all these things" only pertains to Matt 24:4-26, Matt 24:28-29, and Matt 24:32-33. To Bro. Woodrow, the "all these things" phrase strategically only refers to the portions of Matt 24:4-33 that were plausibly fulfilled in the first century.

Up to this point, Jesus spoke about the overthrow of Jerusalem in answer to the questions he was asked, leaving this original line of speech briefly two times to speak of the Second Coming by way of contrast (Mt. 24:27, 30-31), and then returning to the original questions. After telling of the things that would happen in that generation, the whole discourse now shifts from here on out to the question about the Second Coming and the end of the world. Jesus now states that heaven and earth shall pass away — an expression referring to the end of the age — and that the time of “that day” is not revealed.​

Yes.

I find that Bro. Woodrow provides logical and reasonable explanations in dealing with the way in which the answers to the disciples' questions (Matthew 24:3) are interleaved in Jesus' discourse.

Both fulfilled and future perspectives are well addressed.

 

[Hammster]

It specifically states all the tribes from the earth. What the text doesn't state is" from the 2 or 3 tribes shall mourn" which is what you're implying. You're implying only the house of Judah applies to Matthew 24:30. (which includes Benjamin/Levi) and the text definitely doesn't say that.

I never said nor implied two or three tribes.

 

[John Mullally]

I never said nor implied two or three tribes.

And that's a good thing too because the Bible translators agree that the Matthew 24:30 event is world wide.

 

[Hammster]

And that's a good thing too because the Bible translators agree that the Matthew 24:30 event is world wide.

No, they don’t.
And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
— Matthew 24:30


“and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man arriving on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30‬ ‭NET‬‬


“and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s just four. I can keep going.

 

[John Mullally]

No, they don’t.
And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
— Matthew 24:30


“and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30‬ ‭YLT98‬‬


“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man arriving on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30‬ ‭NET‬‬


“and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬


That’s just four. I can keep going.

Notice how the translations says "all the tribes of the earth" instead of "all the tribes of Israel". Saying "All the tribes of the earth" is equivalent to saying "Jews and Gentiles", "all the people groups of the earth" or "all men".

 

[Hammster]

Notice how the translations says "all the tribes of the earth" instead of "all the tribes of Israel". Saying "All the tribes of the earth" is equivalent to saying "Jews and Gentiles", "all the people groups of the earth" or "all men".

“Tribes” never describes people other than Israel. And actually, “earth” is a poor translation. It should be “land”.

The more you know.

 

[keras]

You can’t make that argument, according to your own rules. You must bow out now, since you have to use grammar to make your argument.

I use words to prove my points.
It is people who use grammatical nuances to suit their beliefs, who lose credibility because their point, in this case; whether Jesus was saying something that applied to his present audience, or to a future people.

That it must have been for a future prophecy, is proved by how what He said would happen, namely the budding of the fig tree; which was the re-establishment of the Jewish nation, did NOT happen to that generation.

You are patently wrong in asserting it did.

 

[Jamdoc]

Unfortunately for you, I’ve shown that your view cannot be sustained from the text itself. He knew it would happen within a generation. He just didn’t know the exact day.

No you haven't
because you keep taking a verse out of context to apply it to the first century, and don't answer the question about why the second coming/day of the Lord (yes they were OT literate people and would catch Jesus' references to the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord in Matthew 24:29-30) didn't result in the end of death and sin and restoration of the Kingdom of Israel as promised (in fact it caused their downfall and diaspora for centuries).
You just make the claim, against the text, that Matthew 24 was not about the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord, and is only about the destruction of the temple. Disregarding Jesus' own words referring to the Day of the Lord and disregarding Jesus' words that the Elect would be Gathered, not scattered on that day.

Revelation was written AFTER 70AD.
and Revelation also refers to this same Great and Terrible Day of the Lord

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Hammster]

I use words to prove my points.
It is people who use grammatical nuances to suit their beliefs, who lose credibility because their point, in this case; whether Jesus was saying something that applied to his present audience, or to a future people.

That it must have been for a future prophecy, is proved by how what He said would happen, namely the budding of the fig tree; which was the re-establishment of the Jewish nation, did NOT happen to that generation.

You are patently wrong in asserting it did.

Where does it say that the budding of the fig tree is the reestablishment of the Jewish nation? Please be specific, and don’t use grammatical nuances.

 

[Hammster]

No you haven't
because you keep taking a verse out of context to apply it to the first century, and don't answer the question about why the second coming/day of the Lord (yes they were OT literate people and would catch Jesus' references to the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord in Matthew 24:29-30) didn't result in the end of death and sin and restoration of the Kingdom of Israel as promised (in fact it caused their downfall and diaspora for centuries).
You just make the claim, against the text, that Matthew 24 was not about the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord, and is only about the destruction of the temple. Disregarding Jesus' own words referring to the Day of the Lord and disregarding Jesus' words that the Elect would be Gathered, not scattered on that day.

Revelation was written AFTER 70AD.
and Revelation also refers to this same Great and Terrible Day of the Lord

Revelation 6


Matthew 24

Well, Revelation was written prior to 70 AD. So if that’s your argument, it fails on that point.

Plus, you never responded to this post, where I spelled out your error.

 

[Jamdoc]

Well, Revelation was written prior to 70 AD. So if that’s your argument, it fails on that point.

Plus, you never responded to this post, where I spelled out your error.

I did answer it.
I said Jesus didn't know when this would happen, so He gave signs, for every generation, including the Apostles to watch for.
It could have been in their lifetime, or it could be a generation far into the future. Jesus did not know.
He knew what, and that it'd be over a short span of time. He did not known when because only the Father knows.

Everyone assumes that because Jesus is the incarnate God, that He did not need to rely on scripture to inform Him of the will of the Father or what was going to happen.
Yet Jesus used scripture over and over and and over.
Jesus' knowledge of future events came from the old testament prophets, which through the Holy Spirit He understood clearly, where for others it's veiled.
Jesus was consistent with scripture because He argued and preached from scripture. The OD is pulling from old testament prophets, the short time frame comes from Daniel.
He knew He'd be cut off, but not for Himself, and that leads to the 70th week, was it contiguous, or did the cutting off make it not contiguous?
Jesus didn't know, and if it was contiguous, it was not 70AD anyway, that was several weeks of years after being cut off, not one.

So He simply did not know, and His best estimate was that the 70th week would be contiguous with the other 69, making around AD40, not AD70.

But obviously it did not happen in AD40, so it was not contiguous. We entered the times of the gentiles, and have been there for over a millennia.

as for Revelation, that was written between 90-95AD, during Domitian's rule, which began in AD81.

 

[JosephZ]

Within 9 months? Not precisely.

I wasn't trying to be precise I think most people would understand the point I was trying to make with that analogy.

If Jesus came back in AD70
why is there still sin?
why is there still death?

Maybe the sin and death that was spoken of is that which resided in the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law has been done away with and as a result we have been set free from the power of sin and death.

“For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.” (Romans 7:5-6)

“I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.” (Romans 7:10–11)

"Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Therefore there is now no condemnation at all for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death." (Romans 7:24-25;8:1-2)

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come." (2 Corinthians 5:17)