This generation

[trophy33]

For all:

imagine that you do not have an eschatological view, and you have read through Matthew, and you get to chapter 24. Is there anything grammatically that would lead you to believe that “this generation” means anything other than the generation He’s speaking to?

I kind of dont have an eschatological view, it seems to me that all are wrong in something.

I try to read the texts without bias. And I do not see anything "distant future" related in Mt 24, just from the text itself.

 

[Jamdoc]

For all:

imagine that you do not have an eschatological view, and you have read through Matthew, and you get to chapter 24. Is there anything grammatically that would lead you to believe that “this generation” means anything other than the generation He’s speaking to?

Yes.
as I previously mentioned, the context of the verse being the parable of the fig tree. The audience would understand the parable of the fig tree but I would not initially without studying. The fact that Jesus mentioned it as a parable and referred back to the Fig tree He withered in their presence for being unfruitful, indicates a symbolic meaning. It is one of the times where a symbolic meaning is indicated specifically, where a lot of people want to find symbolic meanings to things that are meant literally.

I interpret it literally, unless something is described as a symbol, much more if a figure explains the meaning of that symbol within the text.

So, whatever that symbolic fig tree illustration is, is the context for what Jesus said about "this generation" Whatever generation witnessed these signs would witness all of them.
To me that verse most specifically absolutely PRECLUDES partial preterism, because it does not allow any sort of long gap between events.

But in context, I do not jump immediately to the direct audience because He had given a parable and told them to understand the parable. The verse is in fact, part of the parable.
In contrast, you break that verse away from its context and take it in a vacuum, as if Jesus ended the previous subject and was starting on a new one.
Taking it out of context like that is how you'd assume "this generation" meant the apostles.

 

[Hammster]

Yes.
as I previously mentioned, the context of the verse being the parable of the fig tree. The audience would understand the parable of the fig tree but I would not initially without studying. The fact that Jesus mentioned it as a parable and referred back to the Fig tree He withered in their presence for being unfruitful, indicates a symbolic meaning. It is one of the times where a symbolic meaning is indicated specifically, where a lot of people want to find symbolic meanings to things that are meant literally.

I interpret it literally, unless something is described as a symbol, much more if a figure explains the meaning of that symbol within the text.

So, whatever that symbolic fig tree illustration is, is the context for what Jesus said about "this generation" Whatever generation witnessed these signs would witness all of them.
To me that verse most specifically absolutely PRECLUDES partial preterism, because it does not allow any sort of long gap between events.

But in context, I do not jump immediately to the direct audience because He had given a parable and told them to understand the parable. The verse is in fact, part of the parable.
In contrast, you break that verse away from its context and take it in a vacuum, as if Jesus ended the previous subject and was starting on a new one.
Taking it out of context like that is how you'd assume "this generation" meant the apostles.

From verse one to verse 34 there are 14 uses of “you” as a second person plural, meaning “y’all who I’m talking to”.

Here’s the parable you are referring to.


“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
— Matthew 24:32-33

Based on this, who is it that needs to look for signs? His immediate audience.

Then He says this


Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
— Matthew 24:34

Again, He’s talking to His immediate audience. And when He said this generation, it’s the generation He just told to look for signs.

So grammatically, it has to be that generation to whom He was speaking to.

 

[Timtofly]

"Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples.... Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.." (Matthew 23:1,36)

Keep in mind when reading this that when you see the word “nation” in the context of Scripture that it does not have the same meaning as the English word "country" (which usually denotes a place of fixed borders and stable government), but rather of a people or nationality. God never intended for their to be a physical or political country called Israel.

Genesis 12:1-3

"Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

 

[Timtofly]

I know what it says. I don’t disagree with what’s said. I disagree with your understanding since the original audience wouldn’t understand it that way.

Peter did not understand it in 2 Peter 3?

 

[Timtofly]

For all:

imagine that you do not have an eschatological view, and you have read through Matthew, and you get to chapter 24. Is there anything grammatically that would lead you to believe that “this generation” means anything other than the generation He’s speaking to?

Jesus cursed the fig tree, and it died. Later He said the fig tree would bloom. All symbolic of something more than a mere fig tree.

How long has that generation waited for the fig tree to bloom, and where are they now?

 

[DavidPT]

Per your link, Bro. Woodrow agrees with me in that he associates Matthew 24:30 with the second coming. If that is true, the Matthew 24:34 generation must be our time or a later generation.

I noticed that myself when I checked out that link. What am I missing here? I thought he was arguing that Matthew 24:30 applies to the first century not the end of this present age instead? If so, why use an article to support one's interpretation if it contradicts one's interpretation instead?

 

[John Mullally]

It’s not worldwide. I’m not sure why you keep saying that it is.

The phrase "All the tribes of the earth" implies worldwide.

 

[Hammster]

Peter did not understand it in 2 Peter 3?

What specifically are you referring to?

 

[Hammster]

Jesus cursed the fig tree, and it died. Later He said the fig tree would bloom. All symbolic of something more than a mere fig tree.

How long has that generation waited for the fig tree to bloom, and where are they now?

What hermeneutic are you using to determine that they are the same tree? And why did He reference other fruit trees?

 

[Hammster]

The phrase "All the tribes of the earth" implies worldwide.

No it doesn’t. It implies Israel.

 

[jgr]

Per your link, Bro. Woodrow agrees with me in that he associates Matthew 24:30 with the second coming. If that is true, the Matthew 24:34 generation must be our time or a later generation.

Taking all of these things into consideration, we favor the interpretation which applies Matthew 24:30, 31 (and the parallel accounts) to the Second Coming of Christ when he will come with the clouds, in power and great glory; when men shall see him and mourn; when he shall send out angels with the sound of the trumpet to gather together believers to meet the Lord.​

No.

Next installment.

 

[JosephZ]

Genesis 12:1-3

"Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

Genesis 12:2 is referring to the descendants of Abraham, not a physical country.

Strong's Concordance
goy: nation, people
Original Word: גּוֹי
Part of Speech: noun masculine; proper name, of a people

Brown-Driver-Briggs
גּוֺי561 noun masculine Genesis 12:2 nation, people.

a. specifically of descendants of Abraham, גּוֺי גָּדוֺל Genesis 12:2;

The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Definition
n m
1. nation, people
a. nation, people
1. usually of non-Hebrew people
2. of descendants of Abraham
3. of Israel

 

[3 Resurrections]

The world carries on the same way it had been.
still wars
still death
still sin
still cursed.

But you remember that Revelation 22:14-15 describes the state of the world after the New Jerusalem has come down from God out of heaven, subsequent to Christ's return. That New Heaven and New Earth with the New Jerusalem present still has ongoing wickedness occurring in the world, and its results. But those things are OUTSIDE the city of the New Jerusalem and its open gates. God looks at everything within the New Jerusalem as covered by Christ's imputed perfection. Isaiah described that New Jerusalem city as having walls called "Salvation", and its gates called "Praise" (Isaiah 60:18).

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

What is different about the conditions in this world from before that New Jerusalem came down and AFTER it is revealed is the destruction of the Satanic realm. Any wickedness taking place in this world since that New Jerusalem was fully revealed is credited ONLY to sinful mankind - not to the Satanic realm, whose members were all destroyed by then.

Romans 16:20 predicted this destruction of the Satanic realm, which would be crushed under the feet of the saints "shortly" in those days when Romans was written (around AD 60). It was the fulfillment of the ancient promise given to Satan after the Fall in Genesis 3:15. That total destruction took place after Satan's "short time" in the first century, since John said that this particular "short time" after Satan's release had already begun, even before he started writing Revelation (Revelation 12:12).

 

[DavidPT]

But you remember that Revelation 22:14-15 describes the state of the world after the New Jerusalem has come down from God out of heaven, subsequent to Christ's return. That New Heaven and New Earth with the New Jerusalem present still has ongoing wickedness occurring in the world, and its results. But those things are OUTSIDE the city of the New Jerusalem and its open gates. God looks at everything within the New Jerusalem as covered by Christ's imputed perfection. Isaiah described that New Jerusalem city as having walls called "Salvation", and its gates called "Praise" (Isaiah 60:18).

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."

Assuming I'm understanding you correctly here, how is that supposed to make sense, if according to most views, not necessarily mine, that the great white throne judgment precedes the new heaven and new earth, which would mean those things are outside the city of the New Jerusalem and its open gates in that manner for all eternity since there will be no more judgments after the time of the great white throne judgment?

To square things, and even most Premils disagree with me here, the thousand years run in parallel with the new heavens and new earth, IOW, it is the first 1000 years of it. This would mean those things outside of the city are not still outside of the city in the manner after the time of the great white throne judgment, but are outside of it in that manner up until the time of the great white throne judgment.

 

[John Mullally]

The phrase "All the tribes of the earth" implies worldwide.

No it doesn’t. It implies Israel.

What's your source?

I went through over 30 different English Bible translations on the internet and they agree with me that the event in Matthew 24:30 is world wide. The Complete Jewish Bible and The Darby Translation are the only as they say "all the tribes of the land". See the link below to view all translations:

What Does Matthew 24:30 Mean? "and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming on th."

 

[JulieB67]

No it doesn’t. It implies Israel

Even if it did just mean Israel, you're missing 10 other tribes that scattered all over the earth. Only Judah, Benjamin and some of Levi were in Jerusalem at that point. So it couldn't possible mean just them. It specifically states "all" the tribes of the earth. Meaning this is a world wide event.

 

[Jamdoc]

From verse one to verse 34 there are 14 uses of “you” as a second person plural, meaning “y’all who I’m talking to”.

Here’s the parable you are referring to.


“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.
— Matthew 24:32-33

Based on this, who is it that needs to look for signs? His immediate audience.

Then He says this


Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
— Matthew 24:34

Again, He’s talking to His immediate audience. And when He said this generation, it’s the generation He just told to look for signs.

So grammatically, it has to be that generation to whom He was speaking to.

Every generation is to watch for the signs, because Jesus didn't actually know when it was going to happen.

You keep thinking He knew exactly when this was going to happen, He didn't. Only the Father knows.

 

[JosephZ]

Every generation is to watch for the signs, because Jesus didn't actually know when it was going to happen.

You keep thinking He knew exactly when this was going to happen, He didn't. Only the Father knows.

A pregnant woman knows she will have a baby within nine months, but she doesn't know the day or the hour. When Jesus said "about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father," He knew that it would happen within that generation, but just like a woman who is pregnant not knowing the exact day and hour her baby will be born during her pregnancy, Jesus didn't know which day and hour the things he spoke of would occur during that generation.

 

[keras]

So grammatically, it has to be that generation to whom He was speaking to

Firstly, remember that we read a translation. Jesus spoke in Aramaic and our Bibles are a translation of the Greek text.
Grammar therefore; cannot be used to prove a point, as we simply do not know the nuances of what was spoken.

Then; most, all - of the Prophets, incl Jesus, prophesied of future events. That is what prophecy is!
Ezekiel and Jeremiah had the problem of the peoples disbelief of their prophesies, rightly; because what they said wasn't for them. Ezekiel 33:30-33, Jeremiah 20:7-18. Habakkuk 2:3