Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[nolidad]

I'm not sure how merely sharing information to someone that argues against such information (as if they've never read of it) is "rude"?

And I don't understand how asking a conditional question is rude either.

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus's death on the cross and rose from the grave on the third day is the new covenant.

And no the confirming of the covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27 is not the new covenant, and separate from that, Jesus did not confirm the new covenant for 7 years.

_________________________________________________
Hakhel - Wikipedia

"The term Hakhel (Hebrew הקהל) refers to a biblical commandment of assembling all Jewish men, women and children, as well as "strangers" to assemble and hear the reading of the Torah by the king of Israel once every seven years."

Based on Hebrews 8:13, the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".

Why would God want anyone to "confirm" an "obsolete" covenant every 7 years during a future time?

Why would we find the death of the New Covenant Messiah in Daniel 9:26, and then jump back to the Old Covenant in the next verse?
Why would the angel fail to mention the New Covenant?


.

 

[nolidad]

I'm sorry if my comment sounded arrogant. TBH though, if a person actually views Scripture through the contextual lens of ancient Hebrew culture, they come to different conclusions than what futurists arrive at.

Not at all! I have many books on OT Hebrew Culture and have bookmarked many Jewish sites and they all agree! They are waiting for a future Messiah and for the kingdom to be established.

In Israel there is a massive movement of practicing Jews looking for Messiah to come! The ancients were and still are the first futurists!

at teh time of Jesus they were all abuzz looking for Messiah!

 

[nolidad]

I'm not going to dig through posts right now (my post about Jesus being a "new Moses" actually answers that question).

ISTM it's a contradiction for one to agree that Jesus is now the mediator of the New Covenant but also argue that there's not fulfillment of the New Covenant. I've asked for the way that's reconciled with no response.

And once again you have simply dodged answering the simple question that would end this all:

Simply show how and when Jesus fulfilled these words of the new covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Simply show when the "after those days" ha[ppened, what were those days before the "aftrer those days" and what took place,
And approx. ( I will give you latitude) when did God start writing His laws in teh eats and remember ing th esins no more of the houses of Israel and Judah? That means all Jews living in case you are unaware.

 

[BABerean2]

The new Covenant is not like the one between Abraham and God in form or structure.

Greekas had covenants and the people understood when the writers used the word mediator.

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
(Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


The New Covenant: Bob George

.

 

[nolidad]

I will indulge you with this much.

Paul wrote this was fulfilled in his day:

2 Corinthians 3:6

• ....who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

......and the author of Hebrews wrote:

Hebrews 9:15
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
​

.......and Luke wrote:

Acts 13:23
And it is one of King David’s descendants, Jesus, who is God’s promised Savior of Israel!​

Instead of pretending to indulge me, show me when the new covenant as declared by God was fulfilled as you demand it has been.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Jesus being on of Davids descendants is part of the Davidic Voenant no tthe new.
Jesus is mediator- a mediator is negotiating with one or more parties- that means the covenant is not finished. If it was finished- there would be no need for any more mediation.

Yes Paul is an able minister of teh new covenant. minister is diakonos or servant. If the covenant is fulfilled as you declared why does the world need any more to serve the covenant or mediate with others a fulfilled covenant???????

 

[nolidad]

Your argument was that Noah, Abraham, Moses, and King David were never called mediators. That is why I shared info about covenants and related terms.

And bringing them in was just a red herring.

They had nothing to do with the new covenant nor did they mediate the new covenant.

Every nation has had covenants. The only unique one till the new was the covenant God made with Himself for Abraham and His seed.

 

[nolidad]

And what covenant are we saved by (asking @nolidad )?

We are not saved by a covenant, but by faith in the shed blood of Jesus and His resurrection which form the foundation for the new covenant to be effective.

but how does our salvation fulfill the terms of teh New covenant God said?

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[nolidad]

Have you ever read Acts chapter 2?

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Act 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Act 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


Why do you keep trying to ignore Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, in an attempt to save every Jew, including those who reject God's Son?

Have you ever read Romans 2:28-29, and Romans 11:1-5, and 1 John 2:22-23, and 2 John 1:7-11?

.

So yes or no. by posting ACts 2 and highlighting those passages, are you declaring that when Peter spoke those words he spoke to every Jew and every man of Israel?

YOur first line after the acts 2 post is you simply bearing falswe witness against me in teh presence of God and all who read this! I have repeatedly written time and time and time again that not every jew that rejects Christ will be saved! This is you borderring on intentionally twisitng my words to promote a lie!

Those passages? Hundreds of times!

But as you intentionally misquote me- I am sure you are asking based on your twisted thinking of what I have actually said. This is poor form for a brother.

 

[mkgal1]

So you have just agreed with me.

Jesus is the go between between the Father and mankind!

More like you're agreeing with what I originally posted here Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem? (Most likely realizing the definition provided supports my assertion that was argued against).

 

[nolidad]

Can you explain why the author of the Book of Hebrews quoted Jeremiah 31:31-34 word-for-word in the passage below.
The text in all Capital letters was quoted directly from Jeremiah 31:31-34.



Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
Heb 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
Heb 8:9 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.
Heb 8:10 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.
Heb 8:11 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.
Heb 8:12 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."
Heb 8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


What would an unbiased witness say about verses 6 and 13?


About 3,000 Jews were saved on the Day of Pentecost, when Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel". By what covenant were they saved?

The Apostle Paul was a Jew. By what covenant was Paul saved?


.

Then why don't you simply show me from history when God fulfilled the provisions He declared in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

1. when did god write His laws in teh inward parts of the house of Israel and Judah (that means everyone who is a Jew FYI)

2. When did all the Jews know the Lord so no one needs to teach them anymore.

3. When did God no longer remember the sins of any Jew?

4. When were the "after those days" happen.

5. what was happening in the days befre the "after those days".

If you really believe the new covenant is fulfilled I also assume you agree with teh bible definition of fulfilled:

πληρόω
Transliteration
plēroō πλήρης (G4134)
Greek Inflections of πληρόω ἐπλήρου — 1x
ἐπληροῦντο — 2x
ἐπληροῦτο — 1x
ἐπληρώθη — 7x
ἐπλήρωσαν — 2x
ἐπλήρωσεν — 4x
πεπληρώκατε — 1x
πεπλήρωκεν — 2x
πεπληρωκέναι — 1x
πεπλήρωμαι — 2x
πεπληρωμένα — 1x
πεπληρωμένη — 3x
πεπληρωμένην — 1x
πεπληρωμένοι — 4x
πεπληρωμένους — 1x
Πεπλήρωται — 1x
πεπλήρωται — 3x
πληροῖς — 1x
πληρούμενον — 1x
πληρουμένου — 1x
πληροῦν — 1x
πληροῦσθε — 1x
πληροῦται — 1x
πληρωθείσης — 1x
πληρωθέντων — 1x
πληρωθῇ — 21x
πληρωθῆναι — 3x
πληρωθήσεται — 1x
πληρωθήσονται — 1x
πληρωθῆτε — 2x
πληρωθῶ — 1x
πληρωθῶσιν — 4x
πληρώσαι — 1x
πληρῶσαι — 3x
πληρώσαντες — 1x
πληρώσατέ — 1x
πληρώσατε — 1x
πληρώσει — 1x
πληρώσεις — 1x
πληρώσῃ — 2x
πληρωσονται — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry

TDNT Reference: 6:286,867

KJV Translation Count — Total: 90x

The KJV translates Strong's G4137 in the following manner: fulfil (51x), fill (19x), be full (7x), complete (2x), end (2x), miscellaneous (9x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:—accomplish, × after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.


Just simply show me when Jer. 31 was fulfilled and you answer my question.

 

[nolidad]

Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—
(Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


The New Covenant: Bob George

.

But if pone is mediating a covenant- then that simply means the covenant is not finished but still ongoing because of negotiations to bring the parties to the agreement.

Even some of the titans of amill covenant theology like Allis, Cox, Hokema and Boettner et.al. all agree that if Jeremiah 31 covenant is to be read as written, then there is a future for the nation of Israel.

So IOW they teach- this is what God says, BUT is what it really means. they have to retranslate GodsWord to fit their agenda instead of what I and the myriads like me do- readjust our agenda to fit what God's word says!

 

[mkgal1]

prove it! Paul was not a moron and he knew the difference between tranlsator and mediator. He chose the word used in classic greek for one negotiating between two parties. Sorry but teh cutesy film says nothing.

I agree that Jesus is NOW the mediator of the new covenantr. but it is yo uthat has redefined the word mediator and have not supported your redefinition either historically, grammatically or even biblically. all you did is redefine it and give some ethereal argument to justify yourself.

Vine's Expository Dictionary: mediator (6x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G3319; a go-between, i.e. (simply) an internunciator,

"inter” is between, and “nunciate” is speak. That's another way to express "translator" and we see that in the biblical accounts written in Scripture.

 

[nolidad]

More like you're agreeing with what I originally posted here Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem? (Most likely realizing the definition provided supports my assertion that was argued against).

Not in the least. I still say that is 180 degrees opposite of what teh writers of Scripture were depicting and I gave you all the resons why.

YOu came up with your red herrings to distract from that fact.

 

[nolidad]

.

It was you who said that "mediator" was not the same as what it means in court and you just showed it did!!!! Thank you for changing your mind!

 

[mkgal1]

Now you are straining gnats.

No....I'm asking for you to offer some support for your statements.

 

[mkgal1]

It was you who said that "mediator" was not the same as what it means in court and you just showed it did!!!! Thank you for changing your mind!

No, I didn't change my mind.
It's all right here what I had written (and the false accusations against me that followed):
Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

 

[mkgal1]

So you have just agreed with me.

Jesus is the go between between the Father and mankind!

More like you're agreeing with what I originally posted here Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem? (Most likely realizing the definition provided supports my assertion that was argued against).

Not in the least. I still say that is 180 degrees opposite of what teh writers of Scripture were depicting and I gave you all the resons why.

And that's exactly what happens when a person views Scripture through the lens of personal bias. What is seen is the personal conclusion that one brings in. Until that's removed, nothing will change about the interpretation. It's a great example of how two people can read the same Scripture and come up with opposing interpretations.

ETA: How is it that its seen as agreement in one direction but reversed there is no agreement "in the least"?

 

[Douggg]

It is an everlasting covenant. It was first confirmed with believing Jews for seven years, then opened to the Gentiles.

Not confirmed, but "preached".

Luke 24:
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

 

[Douggg]

Why would God want anyone to "confirm" an "obsolete" covenant every 7 years during a future time?

The Antichrist, who comes in his own name, is who will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years. The Antichrist is not someone approved by God to be the King of Israel.

question: was the feast of tabernacles established under the new covenant?

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.