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Take a look at the interpretations of Daniel 9:23.....and at the meaning of the original Hebrew word used:A vision - is a visualization. Daniel was not given visualization in Daniel 9.
Specifically understanding of the vision in Daniel 9:23 that Gabriel was referring to.It certainly has changed. We were discussing whether Daniel 9:23 refers to Daniel 9:24-27. You were shown that it does.
Take a look at the interpretations of Daniel 9:23.....and at the meaning of the original Hebrew word used:
Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision:
Specifically understanding of the vision in Daniel 9:23 that Gabriel was referring to.
Here, I will paraphrase it for you. Daniel was praying about the 70 years about to be up. He was praying, no vision involved.
Then suddenly Gabriel shows up to inform him when that the matter of the return of the Jews would take place and the rebuilding of Jerusalem. And furthermore to help Daniel understand the vision he had before about the transgression of desolation by the little horn for the time of the end would take place - when - in the big picture.
Which the big picture included the messiah coming and being cutoff after 483 years. And that there was a prince who was coming to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years.
And in the middle of it stop the daily sacrifice - just as the little horn person was to do in Daniel 8.
The prince who shall come is the little horn person.
I recently had this same discussion with a Jew who has a Phd, and is an expert in Hebrew over at the messiah truth site. He conceded my point that Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9.
Just the opposite, the person is a countermissionary Jew who does not believe that Jesus is the messiah, and says that Christian missionaries are destroying Jewish souls by converting Jews to Christianity.Was he a Christian?
If not, why would you seek truth from a Christ-rejecter?
If he was, did you tell him that no one else in the entire history of the true Church shared your opinion?
I would suggest taking a lesson from Joshua 1:8 and meditate on God's word day and night.There's nothing preventing you from claiming to be the sole source of truth in this matter in the entire history of the Church.
Don't be surprised when you can't persuade anyone to believe you.
If it meant that - those words you added would've been there in the text......but they aren't.I recently had this same discussion with a Jew who has a Phd, and is an expert in Hebrew over at the messiah truth site. He conceded my point that Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9.
I paraphrased what took place in Daniel 9 to jgr in my previous post #302.
Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message [about the 70 years by Jeremiah]and understand the vision [that you had of the little horn, and the transgression of desolation, the last time we interfaced]:
The vision is something Daniel already had experienced previously."Understand the message and the vision" with a colon followed by v. 24-27 means the message & the vision are what's being explained in v. 24-27. One doesn't use a colon to relate to something written in a previous chapter.
Bubble burst: Daniel did not use colons. Nor Semi-colons.The vision is something Daniel already had experienced previously.
A colon doesn't relate to something that has already happened? Yes, it can.
for example: The first three kings of united Israel we read about in the bible are: (colon)
Saul, David, Solomon.
A colon is often used before a list of things.
Here is the list in v24. each item separated by a comma.
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and the upon thy holy city,
to finish the transgression, (my comment - which is the transgression of desolation that Daniel saw previously)
and to make an end of sins,
and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy, (my comment, complete fulfillment of the vision that Daniel previously had in Daniel 8 regarding the little horn person. The prophecy is what Gabriel said in v25-27. Ending with Jesus's return.)
and to anoint the most Holy.
___________________________________________________________
Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9. The vision referred to is the one Daniel had in Daniel 8 - "the transgression" by the little horn person.
My point is, a reader relates what comes immediately after the colon with the phrase written before (not paragraphs before). IOW.(using your example)......Saul, David, and Solomon are "the first 3 kings of united Israel." Likewise....Daniel 9:24-27 is the explanation of the message and vision mentioned in Daniel 9:23.A colon doesn't relate to something that has already happened? Yes, it can.
for example: The first three kings of united Israel we read about in the bible are: (colon)
Saul, David, Solomon.
That's not what I wrote.A colon doesn't relate to something that has already happened? Yes, it can.
mkgal1 said:One doesn't use a colon to relate to something written in a previous chapter.
That isn't referring to Jesus sinning. It's referring to what Jesus said here (the transgressions reaching full measure and thus demanding judgment):
Matthew 23:29-36
29Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then,g the measure of the sin of your fathers. 33You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell?34Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation
The vision of the transgression of desolation is time of the end. Gabriel did not say the same for the parts of the ram, he goat, four break up kingdoms.
Antiochus was not time of the end.YOu are wrong biblically,
you are wrong grammatically
You are wrong contextually.
There is nothing other than you rown imagination that exists that says verse 13 is 2500 years separated from verses 10-12
I asked you to defend this conjecture of yours biblically and grammatically. this is the last time I ask
That's not my "rreckoining".
Jesus was crucified in 30 AD (but didn't die - that's part of the plot of the story).
"To seal vision and prophet" is to authenticate what's written (like a king's seal of authenticity). Jesus authenticated even what was written after His ascension (even though there are those that deny His fulfillment of Scripture).
For Daniel 9:24:Sorry mkgal1 but the word "seal" used in Daniel is not to authenticate it but to shut it up!
The covenant that had been foretold by the prophets. The covenant that had Jesus as the mediator/High Priest/King - Messiah.....descendant of David in the order of Melchizedek.....the Seed of Abraham.....the faithful Israelite that kept the Law and inherited the blessings.
I'm not asserting that Jesus "entered into a 7 year covenant with Israel ".....so why would I attempt to show that?So now show that Jesus entered into a 7 year covenant with Israel in 27 AD
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