Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[Douggg]

Not when Daniel was given his vision, Jesus hadn't come and been cut off.

What vision are you referring to ?

Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9.

Daniel had three visions. One in Daniel 7. And another in Daniel 8. And another in Daniel 10-11. Gabriel was in the one in Daniel 8.

 

[nolidad]

Jesus finished the transgression - made an end of sin - made atonement for iniquity - and brought in an everlasting righteousness on the Cross (although some deny it). His arrival at just the right time (anointed in 26/27 AD) and fulfillment of prophecy gave authenticity to His status as Messiah (the seal of vision and seal of authenticity of prophets). Daniel 9 is a Messianic prophecy of hope and anticipation. It's fulfilled in Christ Jesus (70th week was 26/27 AD - 34 AD.....the Cross in the middle, 30 AD).

1. what one transgression did Jesus finish? If He is sinless, He didn't start it!
2. He made atonement for sin, but sin has not ended! Wrong!
3. what specific covenant did Jesus confirm with the many for 7 years?
4. Jesus fulfilled many prophecies I agree.
5. After 483 years Messiah shall be cut off but not Himself! So now you are saying that Jesus died in 27/28 AD?

 

[mkgal1]

What vision are you referring to ?

Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9.

Daniel had three visions. One in Daniel 7. And another in Daniel 8. And another in Daniel 10-11. Gabriel was in the one in Daniel 8.

Daniel 9:20-23
While I was speaking, praying, confessing my sin and that of my people Israel, and presenting my petition before the LORD my God concerning His holy mountain— while I was still praying, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. He instructed me and spoke with me, saying: “O Daniel, I have come now to give you insight and understanding. At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision:

V. 24
Seventy weekse are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.f​

 

[nolidad]

nolidad, why do have to throw in comments like that? I was addressing you. And you are making out that because I am disagreeing with you, it is the same as disagreeing with God.

Why?

Because the Bible is gods INspired Word, He had it written in language and following the rules of Grammar He caused to happen so we can understand His Word! YOu say Antiochus who fits everything of the little horn in Daniel did not commit teh transgression of desolation when the text as written says he did!

That is why I speak this way!

before I answer any more of you rposts- you must show from scripture and the grammar of SCripture why the little horn of Danile 8 is not Antiochus, though the text says he arises from the four notable ones but is as you allege and hypothesize, the antichrist or beast o (or whatever title you wish) of the last days who arises after ten horns!

Until you defend your hypotheses, I will just wait.

 

[nolidad]

Daniel 9:20-23
While I was speaking, praying, confessing my sin and that of my people Israel, and presenting my petition before the LORD my God concerning His holy mountain— while I was still praying, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. He instructed me and spoke with me, saying: “O Daniel, I have come now to give you insight and understanding. At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision:

V. 24
Seventy weekse are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.f​

Well as you keep telling me that Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9:24- you are saying that visions and prophecies were sealed or locked by the time Jesus ascended (after He died in 27 AD by you rreckoining).

So are we rto assume that the visions and prophecies of Paul, Jude and John are somehow less?

 

[Douggg]

Daniel 9:20-23
While I was speaking, praying, confessing my sin and that of my people Israel, and presenting my petition before the LORD my God concerning His holy mountain— while I was still praying, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. He instructed me and spoke with me, saying: “O Daniel, I have come now to give you insight and understanding. At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision:

Yes, the vision which Gabriel had appeared to him earlier in Daniel 8.

Which Daniels last words in Daniel 8 were -
27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.


So Gabriel was sent to help Daniel understand the vision he had in Daniel 8 regarding the transgression of desolation by the little horn person in the time of the end.

So Gabriel lays out the 70 shmitahs, until that transgression by the little horn in the time of the end will take place (during the 70th shmitah) in Daniel 9:24-27.

The transgression of desolation is time of the end. The little horn person is the prince who shall come, who will ultimately commit that transgression of desolation after the becomes the Antichrist, the King of Israel/Messiah coming in his own name.

__________________________________________________________

mkgal1, I think you are under the impression what Gabriel said in Daniel 9:24-27 is itself a vision. It is not a vision, no more than if I were to read the verses to you - it would not be a vision you were having.

Gabriel is saying to Daniel what is going to take place and when. But Daniel himself was not having a vision by hearing it.

 

[mkgal1]

what one transgression did Jesus finish? If He is sinless, He didn't start it!

That isn't referring to Jesus sinning. It's referring to what Jesus said here (the transgressions reaching full measure and thus demanding judgment):

Matthew 23:29-36
29Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then,g the measure of the sin of your fathers. 33You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell?34Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation​

 

[Douggg]

Because the Bible is gods INspired Word, He had it written in language and following the rules of Grammar He caused to happen so we can understand His Word! YOu say Antiochus who fits everything of the little horn in Daniel did not commit teh transgression of desolation when the text as written says he did!

The vision of the transgression of desolation is time of the end. Gabriel did not say the same for the parts of the ram, he goat, four break up kingdoms.

That is why I speak this way!

I think your high school English teacher would be writing you a detention hall slip right about now.... .

before I answer any more of you rposts- you must show from scripture and the grammar of SCripture why the little horn of Danile 8 is not Antiochus, though the text says he arises from the four notable ones but is as you allege and hypothesize, the antichrist or beast o (or whatever title you wish) of the last days who arises after ten horns!

I already explained to you multiple times that Antiochus is not time of the end.

 

[mkgal1]

Well as you keep telling me that Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9:24- you are saying that visions and prophecies were sealed or locked by the time Jesus ascended (after He died in 27 AD by you rreckoining).

So are we rto assume that the visions and prophecies of Paul, Jude and John are somehow less?

That's not my "rreckoining".

Jesus was crucified in 30 AD (but didn't die - that's part of the plot of the story).

"To seal vision and prophet" is to authenticate what's written (like a king's seal of authenticity). Jesus authenticated even what was written after His ascension (even though there are those that deny His fulfillment of Scripture).

 

[Douggg]

"To seal vision and prophet" is to authenticate what's written (like a king's seal of authenticity). Jesus authenticated even what was written after His ascension (even though there are those that deny His fulfillment of Scripture).

well it is prophecy, not prophet. (the auto feature of forum probably changed what you typed. It happens to me every so often)

The prophecy to be wrapped up is the transgression of desolation event.

Here is my illustration of it being wrapped up. This is what is going to happen to the little horn person (Daniel 8:25) when he tries to make war on Jesus.

 

[jgr]

Yes, the vision which Gabriel had appeared to him earlier in Daniel 8.

Which Daniels last words in Daniel 8 were -
27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.


So Gabriel was sent to help Daniel understand the vision he had in Daniel 8 regarding the transgression of desolation by the little horn person in the time of the end.

So Gabriel lays out the 70 shmitahs, until that transgression by the little horn in the time of the end will take place (during the 70th shmitah) in Daniel 9:24-27.

The transgression of desolation is time of the end. The little horn person is the prince who shall come, who will ultimately commit that transgression of desolation after the becomes the Antichrist, the King of Israel/Messiah coming in his own name.

__________________________________________________________

mkgal1, I think you are under the impression what Gabriel said in Daniel 9:24-27 is itself a vision. It is not a vision, no more than if I were to read the verses to you - it would not be a vision you were having.

Gabriel is saying to Daniel what is going to take place and when. But Daniel himself was not having a vision by hearing it.

There's not a scholar on the planet, past or present, who believes that Gabriel was referring to anything other than what he was about to reveal in Daniel 9:24-27.

Not Daniel 8.

You're sailing solo again.

 

[mkgal1]

mkgal1, I think you are under the impression what Gabriel said in Daniel 9:24-27 is itself a vision. It is not a vision, no more than if I were to read the verses to you - it would not be a vision you were having.

Gabriel is saying to Daniel what is going to take place and when. But Daniel himself was not having a vision by hearing it.

I'm thinking there's a difference between Gabriel "coming to me in swift flight" (as Daniel 9:21 says) and you, Douggg, showing up at my front door while I'm praying.

 

[Douggg]

I'm thinking there's a difference between Gabriel "coming to me in swift flight" (and Daniel 9:21 says) and you, Douggg showing up at my front door while I'm praying.

Sure, but that was not the issue.

Gabriel "coming to me in swift flight", I think is another was of saying Gabriel suddenly appeared. Touching Daniel, I think is Daniel was on his knees praying, and Gabriel from behind touched him on his shoulder. Daniel turned around to see that is was Gabriel, recognizing him from the vision he had in Daniel 8.

Gabriel, in Daniel 9, never really has to introduce himself to Daniel as being Gabriel - because Daniel already knew him from Gabriel being in the vision in Daniel 8.

 

[Douggg]

There's not a scholar on the planet, past or present, who believes that Gabriel was referring to anything other than what he was about to reveal in Daniel 9:24-27.

Not Daniel 8.

You're sailing solo again.

boondoggle.

Maybe you should invite some of your favorites to this forum so they can read some of my posts and take part in the discussions.

Can you not just stick to the topic at hand?

 

[mkgal1]

Gabriel "coming to me in swift flight", I think is another was of saying Gabriel suddenly appeared.

From where?

Most scholars (and myself) agree with this:

Being caused to fly swiftly - God hears with delight such earnest, humble, urgent prayers; and sends the speediest answer. Gabriel himself was ordered on this occasion to make more than usual speed. ~ Adam Clarke​

 

[jgr]

boondoggle.

Maybe you should invite some of your favorites to this forum so they can read some of my posts and take part in the discussions.

Can you not just stick to the topic at hand?

I have no doubt that at least some of them would have weighed your thesis.

They all found it wanting and rejected it.

Why do you reject a unanimous decision?

 

[Douggg]

From where?

Most scholars (and myself) agree with this:

Being caused to fly swiftly - God hears with delight such earnest, humble, urgent prayers; and sends the speediest answer. Gabriel himself was ordered on this occasion to make more than usual speed. ~ Adam Clarke​

That's fine. There is also the nature of persistent and perseverance regarding prayer, as not all answers come right away.

 

[mkgal1]

Gabriel, in Daniel 9, never really has to introduce himself to Daniel as being Gabriel - because Daniel already knew him from Gabriel being in the vision in Daniel 8.

I agree. And then Gabriel gave Daniel insight and understanding of the 70 weeks (490 years) decreed for Daniel's people (the ancient Israelites) and Daniel's Holy City (Jerusalem).

 

[mkgal1]

That's fine. There is also the nature of persistent and perseverance regarding prayer, as not all come right away.

Not all.....messengers of God....or not all what? Edited: you edited to read "not all answers come right away".

This isn't a lesson on prayer, in general. Daniel is acting as a mediator between God and His covenant people (in a conditional covenant with God... a covenant that they've already broken ). Look back in Biblical history....Noah did the same thing (acted as mediator between God and humanity). We're informed of God's response here:

Genesis 6:18
..but I will confirm my covenant with you. You will enter the ark – you, your sons, your wife, and your sons’ wives with you​

 

[Douggg]

Not all.....messengers of God....or not all what?

I went back and fixed my post. Not all answers. Thanks.