Third Temple Scam in modern Jerusalem?

[Douggg]

I have no doubt that at least some of them would have weighed your thesis.

They all found it wanting and rejected it.

Why do you reject a unanimous decision?

You mean they read my post #88 here >

The Antichrist is Not Jewish or Israeli

voted on it, and came up with a unanimous decision? really?

 

[mkgal1]

He made atonement for sin, but sin has not ended! Wrong!

We are not the Judge of sin....God is. If He offers forgiveness for ALL sin through His sacrifice (which I believe He does) then He is holding no one's sin against them.

Hebrews 10:17
Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”(c - from Jeremiah 31:34)​

 

[mkgal1]

what specific covenant did Jesus confirm with the many for 7 years?

The covenant that had been foretold by the prophets. The covenant that had Jesus as the mediator/High Priest/King - Messiah.....descendant of David in the order of Melchizedek.....the Seed of Abraham.....the faithful Israelite that kept the Law and inherited the blessings.

 

[jgr]

You mean they read my post #88 here >

The Antichrist is Not Jewish or Israeli

voted on it, and came up with a unanimous decision? really?

They reject your claim that "the vision" in Daniel 9:23 does not contemplate Daniel 9:24-27.

Scholars on Daniel 9:23:

John Calvin
"At the end of the verse, as I have already mentioned, the angel stimulates Daniel to greater zeal, and urges him to apply his mind and all his senses attentively to understand the prophecy which the angel was commanded to bring before him. It now follows, --"

Matthew Henry
"He demands his serious attention to the discovery he was now about to make to him: Therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision, v. 23. This intimates that it was a thing well worthy of his regard, above any of the visions he had been before favoured with. Note, Those who would understand the things of God must consider them, must apply their minds to them, ponder upon them, and compare spiritual things with spiritual. The reason why we are so much in the dark concerning the revealed will of God, and mistake concerning it, is want of consideration. This vision both requires and deserves consideration."

Albert Barnes
"And consider the vision - This vision - the vision of future things which he was now about to present to his view."

 

[mkgal1]

well it is prophecy, not prophet. (the auto feature of forum probably changed what you typed. It happens to me every so often)

With the definition being "to authenticate " it doesn't really matter whether it's "prophet" or "prophecy" used there because it's the fulfillment of prophecy that came from the prophets that vindicated them. IOW....to place the seal on the prophecy also seals the prophet (gives them credibility).

The Strong's lexicon states the original Hebrew word depicted a spokesperson (i.e. meaning a person/prophet):

"Strong's Hebrew: 5030. נָבִיא (nabi) -- a spokesman, speaker, prophet" Strong's Hebrew: 5030. נָבִיא (nabi) -- a spokesman, speaker, prophet

 

[Douggg]

They reject your claim that "the vision" in Daniel 9:23 does not contemplate Daniel 9:24-27.

Scholars on Daniel 9:23:

John Calvin
"At the end of the verse, as I have already mentioned, the angel stimulates Daniel to greater zeal, and urges him to apply his mind and all his senses attentively to understand the prophecy which the angel was commanded to bring before him. It now follows, --"

Matthew Henry
"He demands his serious attention to the discovery he was now about to make to him: Therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision, v. 23. This intimates that it was a thing well worthy of his regard, above any of the visions he had been before favoured with. Note, Those who would understand the things of God must consider them, must apply their minds to them, ponder upon them, and compare spiritual things with spiritual. The reason why we are so much in the dark concerning the revealed will of God, and mistake concerning it, is want of consideration. This vision both requires and deserves consideration."

Albert Barnes
"And consider the vision - This vision - the vision of future things which he was now about to present to his view."

John Calvin - v. 24-27 was a prophecy - right.

Matthew Henry - v. 24-27 was a vision - wrong.

Albert Barnes - v 24-27 was a vision - wrong.

 

[mkgal1]

Matthew Henry - v. 24-27 was a vision - wrong.

The commentary from Matthew Henry says this:

Matthew Henry
"He demands his serious attention to the discovery he was now about to make to him: Therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision, v. 23. This intimates that it was a thing well worthy of his regard, above any of the visions he had been before favoured with. Note, Those who would understand the things of God must consider them, must apply their minds to them, ponder upon them, and compare spiritual things with spiritual. The reason why we are so much in the dark concerning the revealed will of God, and mistake concerning it, is want of consideration. This vision both requires and deserves consideration."​

 

[mkgal1]

Albert Barnes - v 24-27 was a vision - wrong.

Albert Barnes (v 23)
"And consider the vision - This vision - the vision of future things which he was now about to present to his view."

Albert Barnes
It is remarkable, among other things, as not being a direct answer to the prayer, and as seeming to have no bearing on the subject of the petition - that the city of Jerusalem might be rebuilt, and the temple restored; but it directs the mind onward to another and more important event - the coming of the Messiah, and the final closing of sacrifice and oblation, and a more entire and enduring destruction of the temple and city, after it should have been rebuilt, than had yet occurred. To give this information, an angel - the same one whom Daniel had seen before - was sent forth from heaven, and came near to him and touched him, and said that he was commissioned to impart to him skill and understanding, Daniel 9:20-23. “The speediness of his coming indicates a joyful messenger. The substance of that message is as follows: As a compensation for the seventy years in which the people, the city, and the temple had been entirely prostrate, seventy weeks of years, seven times seventy years of a renewed existence would be secured to them by the Lord; and the end of this period, far from bringing the mercies of God to a close, would for the first time bestow them on the theocracy in their complete and full measure.”
"Daniel 9 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible" Daniel 9 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible​

 

[jgr]

John Calvin - v. 24-27 was a prophecy - right.

Yes, and according to Calvin in verse 23, that prophecy "now follows".

Not something from Daniel 8.

 

[jgr]

John Calvin - v. 24-27 was a prophecy - right.

Matthew Henry - v. 24-27 was a vision - wrong.

Albert Barnes - v 24-27 was a vision - wrong.

Still awaiting any claim other than your own that Daniel 9:23 refers to Daniel 8 rather than Daniel 9:24-27.

Still awaiting.

Still awaiting.

 

[mkgal1]

Matthew Henry - v. 24-27 was a vision - wrong.

Albert Barnes - v 24-27 was a vision - wrong.

The verse states "vision" ( i don't really understand the resistance to this?). Notice the colon after "vision" as well:


"Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision:" Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision: <-----link to parallel verses.

Strong's Hebrew: 4759. מַרְאָה (mar'ah) -- glass<---concordance

 

[Douggg]

The verse states "vision" ( i don't really understand the resistance to this?). Notice the semicolon after "vision" as well:


"Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision:" Daniel 9:23 At the beginning of your petitions, an answer went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are highly precious. So consider the message and understand the vision: <-----link to parallel verses.

Strong's Hebrew: 4759. מַרְאָה (mar'ah) -- glass<---concordance

A vision - is a visualization. Daniel was not given visualization in Daniel 9.

What Gabriel presented in v24-27 was not a vision. It could be said to be a prophecy, but not a vision.

The vision that Gabriel was going help Daniel understand is the vision Daniel had in Daniel 8, the transgression of desolation vision, when those 2300 days would take place.
__________________________________________________

Tell me, Daniel was given the prophecy of the messiah cutoff in v26. Did Daniel have a visualization of the messiah on the cross ?

 

[Douggg]

Still awaiting any claim other than your own that Daniel 9:23 refers to Daniel 8 rather than Daniel 9:24-27.

Still awaiting.

Still awaiting.

I am not and have not been making any claims of that sort.

 

[jgr]

I am not and have not been making any claims of that sort.

Then restate your claim regarding what Daniel 9:23 refers to.

 

[Douggg]

Then restate your claim regarding what Daniel 9:23 refers to.

I am not changing anything.

Daniel did not visualize anything in Daniel 9. Do you think that when told by Gabriel the prophecy of the messiah cutoff v26 - that Daniel visualized Jesus hanging from a cross?

 

[jgr]

I am not changing anything.

Daniel did not visualize anything in Daniel 9. Do you think that when told by Gabriel the prophecy of the messiah cutoff v26 - that Daniel visualized Jesus hanging from a cross?

Then you should have no problem restating it.

 

[Douggg]

Then you should have no problem restating it.

You think that when told by Gabriel the prophecy of the messiah cutoff v26 - that Daniel visualized Jesus hanging from a cross?

 

[jgr]

You think that when told by Gabriel the prophecy of the messiah cutoff v26 - that Daniel visualized Jesus hanging from a cross?

Is that your restatement?

 

[Douggg]

Is that your restatement?

I am trying to show to you that Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9.

Gabriel gave to Daniel what would be considered prophecy, but not a vision.

v26 says the messiah cutoff - but it does not say by what method.
_________________________________________________________

the understanding of the vision that Gabriel was furthering to Daniel was the vision Daniel had in Daniel 8.

 

[jgr]

I am trying to show to you that Daniel did not have a vision in Daniel 9.

Gabriel gave to Daniel what would be considered prophecy, but not a vision.

v26 says the messiah cutoff - but it does not say by what method.

It certainly has changed. We were discussing whether Daniel 9:23 refers to Daniel 9:24-27. You were shown that it does.