Third temple being build in Jerusalem right now

[Hammster]

No, because he'd just withered the tree, and that was a symbol, of Israel being destroyed in the near future.
But Israel would be brought back into their nation, and the fig tree puts forth new leaves.
Hence, the parable of the fig tree.
Context gives that Jesus was explaining that parable, and for those who see the fig tree bring forth new leaves.. that generation will not pass.

Mkay.

 

[Jamdoc]

Herein is the danger of that: When Jesus doesn't show up and everyone who was alive at either of those dates begins to die off from old age within the next several decades how are people who believe in this going to cope?

Again, look to William Miller and Harold Camping and the colossal failures and the resulting shock and disappointment that came afterward.

By linking the Lord's return to such things people set themselves up for disappointment, they are setting themselves on the path toward shipwrecking their faith.

If the Lord does return, say tomorrow, then glory be to God.
But Christ teaches us to prepare ourselves for the long haul in this world, He will return, but we don't know when, and so our job is to be a faithful people here and now.

We are to be a people of faith, hope, and love in this world.

-CryptoLutheran

Potentially, if God means for Israel to be scattered and brought back again multiple times in the future.
But, that's the words of Jesus we're talking about here. That He is speaking of a generation, and the generation He was speaking of was not the people directly in front of Him, but a generation that would begin to see prophecy fulfilled, one of which is, Israel being regathered from all the nations. If the other prophecies don't follow, well then, not this time.
but the main thing Jesus was saying, is that when these events start happening, they will happen within 1 generation.

 

[Hammster]

Potentially, if God means for Israel to be scattered and brought back again multiple times in the future.
But, that's the words of Jesus we're talking about here. That He is speaking of a generation, and the generation He was speaking of was not the people directly in front of Him, but a generation that would begin to see prophecy fulfilled, one of which is, Israel being regathered from all the nations. If the other prophecies don't follow, well then, not this time.
but the main thing Jesus was saying, is that when these events start happening, they will happen within 1 generation.

Unfortunately for your position, the original readers and hearers would not have understood it that way. Not to mention that the context doesn’t support it.

 

[Jamdoc]

Mkay.

Well unless you want to take verse 34 out of context, the context is explaining the parable of the fig tree, it's no longer a chronological detailing of the signs of His coming, but rather giving timing, nobody knows the day or the hour, but when you see the signs, you'll know you're in the generation.

 

[Jamdoc]

Unfortunately for your position, the original readers and hearers would not have understood it that way. Not to mention that the context doesn’t support it.

Well it's no big secret.
The age did not end in AD70.
A regional conflict =/= global
there is still sin and death in the world.
and Jesus didn't appear in the clouds in AD70.

and important to remember. Jesus said Himself that the Son doesn't know the day or hour.
So even Jesus didn't know this wouldn't happen within that generation, He knew that once things started they would be within a generation.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Potentially, if God means for Israel to be scattered and brought back again multiple times in the future.
But, that's the words of Jesus we're talking about here. That He is speaking of a generation, and the generation He was speaking of was not the people directly in front of Him, but a generation that would begin to see prophecy fulfilled, one of which is, Israel being regathered from all the nations. If the other prophecies don't follow, well then, not this time.
but the main thing Jesus was saying, is that when these events start happening, they will happen within 1 generation.

And what if it was the people He was talking to? Is there a reason why when Jesus says "this generation" that He doesn't literally mean "this generation"?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well it's no big secret.
The age did not end in AD70.
A regional conflict =/= global
there is still sin and death in the world.
and Jesus didn't appear in the clouds in AD70.

and important to remember. Jesus said Himself that the Son doesn't know the day or hour.
So even Jesus didn't know this wouldn't happen within that generation, He knew that once things started they would be within a generation.

Separate the things Jesus talks about when He speaks of the coming destruction of the Temple and His speaking of the end of the age, His return, Judgment, etc.

Jesus told His disciples that the Temple would be destroyed, then they asked Him when that would happen. Jesus answers their question, and He also answers their question about His return and the end of the age.

But these aren't the same thing.

No, the age did not end in 70 AD, neither has the Lord returned in glory and in judgment over all nations. But the things Jesus said would happen concerning the destruction of the Temple did happen in 70 AD. And that is the context of the parable of the fig tree.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

And what if it was the people He was talking to? Is there a reason why when Jesus says "this generation" that He doesn't literally mean "this generation"?

-CryptoLutheran

Because that Generation already didn't have the return of Christ.

 

[Jamdoc]

Separate the things Jesus talks about when He speaks of the coming destruction of the Temple and His speaking of the end of the age, His return, Judgment, etc.

Jesus told His disciples that the Temple would be destroyed, then they asked Him when that would happen. Jesus answers their question, and He also answers their question about His return and the end of the age.

But these aren't the same thing.

No, the age did not end in 70 AD, neither has the Lord returned in glory and in judgment over all nations. But the things Jesus said would happen concerning the destruction of the Temple did happen in 70 AD. And that is the context of the parable of the fig tree.

-CryptoLutheran

Matthew 24

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled

Not just 1 event, but all the things He described.

 

[klutedavid]

Lord Jesus will come soon! And so will the Antichrist.
But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” (Luke 21:36)

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? (2 Thess 2:1-17)

“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand) Matthew 24:15

The Anitchrist will soon take over. Israel will accept him as their Messiah, they will even invite him to the temple, where God will out of his grace remove sin from their eyes so they will finally see and accept Jesus as Messiah, and only then, Jesus will return as written in Hosea 5:15 'I will return again to my place, until they acknowledge their guilt and seek my face, and in their distress earnestly seek me.'

Don't donate your temple building funds to that organization. Send it all to me and I will build the greatest temple, that the world has ever seen.

Seriously, there will never be another temple no matter what you have been told.

 

[Douggg]

No need. You're just another like Harold Camping as far as I am concerned!

The parable of the fig tree is how to know - the season when Jesus returns. And the generation who will experinece it happening.

Differently, Harold Camping based his predictions on the following (from Wikipedia)....

Camping's teachings regarding the timing of Christ's second coming were based on the cycles of:

• Jewish feast days in the Hebrew calendar, as described in the Old Testament,
• the lunar month calendar (1 synodic month = 29.53059 days), and
• a close approximation of the Gregorian calendar tropical year (365.24219 days, rounded to 365.2422).[44]

He projected these cycles into modern times and combined the results with other information in the Bible

 

[Douggg]

Herein is the danger of that: When Jesus doesn't show up and everyone who was alive at either of those dates begins to die off from old age within the next several decades how are people who believe in this going to cope?

Again, look to William Miller and Harold Camping and the colossal failures and the resulting shock and disappointment that came afterward.

By linking the Lord's return to such things people set themselves up for disappointment, they are setting themselves on the path toward shipwrecking their faith.

If the Lord does return, say tomorrow, then glory be to God.
But Christ teaches us to prepare ourselves for the long haul in this world, He will return, but we don't know when, and so our job is to be a faithful people here and now.

We are to be a people of faith, hope, and love in this world.

-CryptoLutheran

So why did Jesus say...

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

1967, Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, when the nation of Israel has just returned to the land in 1948.

 

[Hammster]

Well it's no big secret.
The age did not end in AD70.

I never said it did.

A regional conflict =/= global

I never said it was.

there is still sin and death in the world.

Yes.

and Jesus didn't appear in the clouds in AD70.

He didn’t say that He would.

and important to remember. Jesus said Himself that the Son doesn't know the day or hour.
So even Jesus didn't know this wouldn't happen within that generation, He knew that once things started they would be within a generation.

Except that He didn’t say that.

 

[Hammster]

Matthew 24


Not just 1 event, but all the things He described.

Right. The destruction of Jerusalem.

 

[Hammster]

So why did Jesus say...

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

1967, Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, when the nation of Israel has just returned to the land in 1948.

None of them were alive by then. If Jesus has to write that down for a generation 2000 years in the future, you might have a point.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Because that Generation already didn't have the return of Christ.

Does He tell them that their generation would see His return? Or does He say they will see the Son of Man coming into His kingdom?

The language Jesus uses here is pulled directly from Daniel, where the Son of Man is taken up on a cloud before the Ancient of Days and given all dominion and power and authority. Compare this with the accounts of the Ascension. For example what does the Lord say in Matthew 28:18? How about in Acts of the Apostles 1:9?

It is true enough that when our Lord comes in glory as judge of the living and the dead He comes with everlasting and eternal kingdom. As we know His reign and kingdom is eternal (Luke 1:33), and it is the Christian hope that our Lord return, the dead are raised, and God make all things new. We look forward to new heavens and new earth, where God is all in all.

But the kingdom isn't purely future, but also present reality. Which is why He told us that we enter the kingdom though new birth; it is why St. Paul speaks not only of our future reign with the Lord, but also this as a present reality, writing that we are seated with Christ in heavenly places.

The Son of Man came into His kingdom when He ascended into heaven, exalted, and seated at the right hand of Majesty on High, where He lives and reigns as King Messiah, through His Church, until the day He makes all things subject to Himself, the final enemy being death. Then He shall return, the dead rise, and He shall deliver all things over to the Father and God shall be all in all.

And that generation did see these things come to pass, they bore witness of it when He was taken up into the heavens, exalted to the right hand of God the Father.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

So why did Jesus say...

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

1967, Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, when the nation of Israel has just returned to the land in 1948.

It is near, even at the doors. Jesus isn't just being poetic here, He's talking about the gates of the city, with the Romans besieging it. He was giving them the signs to look out for concerning the coming calamity upon the city. That's why he tells them to learn the lesson from the fig tree.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Matthew 24


Not just 1 event, but all the things He described.

Right, at that point He had been talking about the coming destruction that would befall Jerusalem. In verse 36 he changes gears, and provides a statement of contrast with what was aforementioned: "But concerning that day and hour" is what He says. Here He speaks of His return, and the thing He really tries to emphasize here is that we don't know when it will happen, nobody does. Unlike before, with the coming destruction of Jerusalem which has signs to look out for and to pay attention to, the Lord's return doesn't have signs. Instead He says it comes without warning, comparing it to the sudden and unexpected destruction brought by the flood.

In the same way, He says, that those in Noah's day were going about their lives as usual, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two will be in a field, one is taken and one is left; two are milling grain, one is taken and one is left. He gives us two parables in Matthew 25 to continue to emphasize this point: The Parable of the Virgins and the Parable of the Talents. In the Parable of the Virgins ten virgins keep their oil and are there when the bridegroom comes, but ten were lazy; in the Parable of the Talents the unfaithful servant rather than going and investing what he was given chose to bury it and do nothing as he waited the return of his master.

Christ is clear here, it's not our business to know the times and seasons God has in store, the coming of the Lord will happen when it happens, and nobody can know when--instead of trying to figure that out, we are supposed to be faithful and wise servants going about our Master's work right here and now in the world.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

I never said it did.

I never said it was.
Yes.

He didn’t say that He would.




Except that He didn’t say that.

Except he did. He told to watch for these signs and that the generation who saw those things begin to happen would see all of those things be fulfilled including his appearing in the clouds before they passed away.
If you believe that he was referring to the generation of people in front of him, then you'd be a preterist claiming that it was already all fulfilled (usually in 70AD)

 

[Jamdoc]

Right, at that point He had been talking about the coming destruction that would befall Jerusalem. In verse 36 he changes gears, and provides a statement of contrast with what was aforementioned: "But concerning that day and hour" is what He says. Here He speaks of His return, and the thing He really tries to emphasize here is that we don't know when it will happen, nobody does. Unlike before, with the coming destruction of Jerusalem which has signs to look out for and to pay attention to, the Lord's return doesn't have signs. Instead He says it comes without warning, comparing it to the sudden and unexpected destruction brought by the flood.

In the same way, He says, that those in Noah's day were going about their lives as usual, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two will be in a field, one is taken and one is left; two are milling grain, one is taken and one is left. He gives us two parables in Matthew 25 to continue to emphasize this point: The Parable of the Virgins and the Parable of the Talents. In the Parable of the Virgins ten virgins keep their oil and are there when the bridegroom comes, but ten were lazy; in the Parable of the Talents the unfaithful servant rather than going and investing what he was given chose to bury it and do nothing as he waited the return of his master.

Christ is clear here, it's not our business to know the times and seasons God has in store, the coming of the Lord will happen when it happens, and nobody can know when--instead of trying to figure that out, we are supposed to be faithful and wise servants going about our Master's work right here and now in the world.

-CryptoLutheran

No that doesn't work, because the "changes gears" in verse 36 is after He'd just given the actual signs of His return, the darkening of the sun and the moon and His appearing in the clouds, and right after He explains about the parable of the fig tree. What He described was all one thing that was connected.
immediately after the tribulation of those days. If the tribulations of those days was referring to 70AD, then that either means Jesus appeared in the clouds in 70AD, that Jesus was a liar because He didn't appear in 70AD but said He would.... or... since those first two are obviously false... that Jesus was not referring to the people in front of Him but the generation that witnessed the fig tree bringing forth new leaves.
The fig tree being a prophetic symbol of Israel in the old testament.