Thermodynamics Suggests Creation

[SkyWriting]

"By Law" we have no idea what happened at t = 0 because the current laws of physics break down there! Inflation means that we should never know what happened there.

You can't claim that inflation explains things, and that inflation proves we can't explain things.

 

[SkyWriting]

The first lie is that anyone says that the Newtonian dark star is an actual black hole as in General Relativity.

Yes, they are the same thing.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

You can't claim that inflation explains things, and that inflation proves we can't explain things.

That is their brand of logic. Anyone that questions their illogical ramblings and demands logic is a crackpot...

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Yes, they are the same thing.

They don't understand their illogic there either...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_star_(Newtonian_mechanics)

"Dark stars are analogous to black holes in general relativity."

 

[SkyWriting]

They don't understand their illogic there either...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_star_(Newtonian_mechanics)

"Dark stars are analogous to black holes in general relativity."

You can change Wikipedia as long as you have good supporting sources.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Yes, they are the same thing.

14 August 2018 SkyWriting: A "they are the same thing" lie about Newtonian dark stars and relativistic black holes.
My post was clear. They are not the same thing. Black holes do not exist in Newtonian mechanics.
13 August 2018 SkyWriting: A "your religion and your faith" lie followed by nonsense.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Very wrong, SkyWriting.
"By Law" we have no idea what happened at t = 0 because the current laws of physics break down there! Inflation means that we should never know what happened there. There are speculative theories and what I have seen is no beginning and no cause for the universe.

Come on RC, if there was no cause, there would be no universe...... And if there was no beginning, then what are you even discussing T=0 for to umm, begin with?????

Strictly speaking, matter (atoms, protons, etc..) did not exist in the very early universe.
Timeline of the formation of the Universe. Volume occupying "substances" did not appear until the hadron epoch at t ~ 10-6 seconds. The matter era started at t ~ 10 seconds. Atoms appeared at t ~ 3 minutes.

Wait, if there was no beginning, and nothing yet existed to measure, then why are you discussing seconds and minutes after the beginning????

 

[Justatruthseeker]

You can change Wikipedia as long as you have good supporting sources.

Yah, its been changed several times after I have used it as a reference to disprove their claims..... And you don't really need good supporting sources [citation needed]......

 

[RealityCheck01]

You can't claim that inflation explains things, and that inflation proves we can't explain things.

14 August 2018 SkyWriting: A "...that inflation proves we can't explain things" lie.
My post does not say that.
Inflation explains important observed properties of the universe and passes a couple of testable, falsifiable predictions. No current theory including inflation explains what happens at t - 0 because they break down.
Inflation means that empirical evidence from before about 10-36 seconds has been smeared out and cannot be measured. We will not be able to measure the fluctuations in the universe before the inflationary epoch.

 

[RealityCheck01]

"Inflation means" no such thing.

14 August 2018 SkyWriting: ""Inflation means" no such thing" ignorance.
This is inflation in cosmology.

 

[RealityCheck01]

It's not a religion for me, but we all place our faith in something bigger than ourselves and trust it is true and let it guide us.

Looks like a repeat of a science is religion lie. Sceince is not a religion at all. There no faith (a belief in something even if there is no evidence for it or even evidence against it) science. Sceince is evidence based trust.
13 August 2018 SkyWriting: A "your religion and your faith" lie followed by nonsense.

 

[RealityCheck01]

That is their brand of logic. Anyone that questions their illogical ramblings and demands logic is a crackpot...

14 August 2018 Justatruthseeker: Falls for a lie about inflation and adds an "illogical ramblings" lie.

 

[RealityCheck01]

They don't understand their illogic there either...

You cited the crank Crothers PDF. That starts with this lie and ends with it

It has frequently been alleged by theoretical physicists (e. g.[1, 2]) that Newton’s theory of gravitation either predicts or adumbrates the black hole.
...
Since the Michell-Laplace dark body is not a black hole either, there is no theoretical basis for it whatsoever.

No theoretical physicist thinks that a dark star is a black hole: dark stars are analogous to black holes in general relativity.
Dark stars and black holes have valid theoretical derivations. There is also strong empirical evidence for black holes. Soon we should have images of the effects of event horizons (UA astronomers hope to capture the first image of a black hole).

Dark stars are analogous to black holes in general relativity is that we can take a relativistic black hole and look back to see an analogous situation for a classical dark star. People who write gravitation textbooks list the history of gravitation and can include the Newtonian dark star. Being historically earlier than black holes does not mean that they predict dark holes. The prediction of black holes is purely GR.
adumbrates is correct (to foreshadow vaguely).

13 August 2018 Justatruthseeker: The rather deluded crank Stephen Crothers is not a credible source of science.

 

[RealityCheck01]

Come on RC, if there was no cause, there would be no universe

14 August 2018 Justatruthseeker: An ignorant "if there was no cause, there would be no universe" assertion.
If the universe always existed then there is no creation of the universe and no cause .

14 August 2018 Justatruthseeker: A "discussing seconds and minutes after the beginning" lie.

"By Law" we have no idea what happened at t = 0 because the current laws of physics break down there! Inflation means that we should never know what happened there. There are speculative theories and what I have seen is no beginning and no cause for the universe.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

You cited the crank Crothers PDF. That starts with this lie

Dark stars are analogous to black holes in general relativity is that we can take a relativistic black hole and look back to see an analogous situation for a classical dark star. People who write gravitation textbooks list the history of gravitation and can include the Newtonian dark star. Being historically earlier than black holes does not mean that they predict dark holes. The prediction of black holes is purely GR.
adumbrates is correct (to foreshadow vaguely).

13 August 2018 Justatruthseeker: The rather deluded crank Stephen Crothers is not a credible source of science.

No, no. The Micheal Leplace Dark body predated any notion of black holes or general relativity. So we do not take a black hole and look back to see an analogous situation. We start with the dark body and look forward to the analogous black hole......

GR is merely an improvement upon Newtonian gravity, which it reduces to in the low gravity near field....

Yes, supporters of Fairie Dust would take an actual history of black hole theory that they can't contest and call it a lie since they can't contest it......

And only someone whose logic was warped would believe "means that empirical evidence from before about 10-36 seconds has been smeared out and cannot be measured. We will not be able to measure the fluctuations in the universe before the inflationary epoch."

So inflation smeared out anything before inflation, but didn't manage to smear out anything while it was happening and continues to happen to this very day????? Usually the cause of smearing smears out everything after the cause and nothing before........ But illogic is considered logical by those paying homage to the epicycles.....

 

[RealityCheck01]

No, no. The Micheal Leplace Dark body predated any notion of black holes or general relativity.

That is what I wrote. Dark stars are earlier in the history of science than black holes. They appear before black holes in the history of gravitation. They were not used to predict (Crothers lie) black holes.

GR is merely an improvement upon Newtonian gravity, which it reduces to in the low gravity near field....

GR is a theory of gravity with the requirement that it reduces to Newtonian gravity in the low gravity and low velocity limits.

Followed by:
14 August 2018 Justatruthseeker: A meaningless and ignorant "supporters of Fairie Dust" rant about inflation.
The extremely rapid exponential expansion of the inflationary epoch ended "between 10−33 and 10−32 seconds after the Big Bang". It was the increase in volume by a factor of at least 10+78 that "smeared out" the universe so that we should not be able to detect anything before the inflationary epoch. We may be able to detect gravitational waves from the inflationary epoch - the BICEP2 error was about this.
The expansion of the universe that "continues to happen to this very day" is the much slower but accelerating post inflation expansion.

13 August 2018 Justatruthseeker: The rather deluded crank Stephen Crothers is not a credible source of science.

Presenting at Thunderbolts "cult" conferences hints at the level of Stephen J. Crothers delusions

 

[SkyWriting]

Yah, its been changed several times after I have used it as a reference to disprove their claims..... And you don't really need good supporting sources [citation needed]......

In principle you do. But there are no such rules.

 

[SkyWriting]

Come on RC, if there was no cause, there would be no universe...... And if there was no beginning, then what are you even discussing T=0 for to umm, begin with?Wait, if there was no beginning, and nothing yet existed to measure, then why are you discussing seconds and minutes after the beginning????

According to theory, he is right. I only challenged his request for proof.

The Heisenberg principal says that even the impossible will
happen now and then. The most probable will happen more often.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

According to theory, he is right. I only challenged his request for proof.

The Heisenberg principal says that even the impossible will
happen now and then. The most probable will happen more often.

The heisenberg principle also says cats are not alive or dead until we open the box and actuate the probability. but don't get mad at me when the dead cat stinks up the room a year later......

Oh I agree that inane theory says nothing happened to nothing and then we were able to measure nothing before it became something.......

Until mater exists to measure, there is no concept of time. So why are we discussing T=0 if there was no beginning and T= 1, 2, 3 etc if something to measure did not happen till T=6.

In other words, if expansion wiped out any evidence from before, after it began, then WHEN the universe actually began is not deducible. T=0 has no meaning whatsoever in relation to "before" a time when we could measure...... Expansion could have started any number of magical faster than light trips at any time, since there is no evidence of "WHEN", since it smeared out that evidence........

 

[Strathos]

The heisenberg principle also says cats are not alive or dead until we open the box and actuate the probability. but don't get mad at me when the dead cat stinks up the room a year later......

No it doesn't. That was actually an argument used to illustrate the absurdity of quantum effects on macroscopic scales. Please learn the basics of what you're talking about before pontificating on scientific matters.