There's No Evidence That Protests Have Caused a Coronavirus Surge

[RestoreTheJoy]

No, the end of the pregnancy is the point.

Except it's not a baby.



Consenting to sex is not consenting to become pregnant.

Can you give me an example of an unborn 'baby' being charged with a tort or other crime? Or being counted as a dependent for tax purposes or in a census or being charged admission?

You said: Most abortions affect embryos, not fetuses.

The point of the abortion is to remove something that attached itself to the woman without her approval. The death of the unborn (whether it is a person or not) is incidental. Her right to bodily autonomy outweighs all other concerns.

No the death of the baby is most decidedly NOT incidental. An incidental occurrence is when you get scratched while someone is attempting to pierce your ears.

Here, the goal is indeed precisely to kill the unborn child (call it whatever you like, but we all know what it is).

Consenting to sex is consenting to the outcome of sex. Pregnancy is a foreseeable outcome.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Depends on how you define “baby”, now doesn’t it? Personally, I don’t know anyone that uses the word baby to describe what’s in a uterus. When my then wife was pregnant, she would say “we’re going to have a baby”, not “we have a baby, it’s just not out yet”.

But ultimately, terminology doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is whether or not what’s in a uterus deserves protections from removal.

Ask any pregnant mom. She knows what's in there and it's a developing baby. Every single one will say things like, "I'm hope my baby has his daddy's eyes." She knows what it is.

 

[Aussie Pete]

You can't abort an infant it's physically and logically impossible.

To you, maybe. To Christians, the unborn is just as human as anyone else. It is a child. Remember the old euphemism for pregnancy? It was "to be with child". In Japan, a child's birthday is taken as the time of conception. In that respect, they have more respect for life than many other nationalities.

We live in a throw away world. Throw away morals, throw away goods, throw away packaging. And throw away people. The insanity is that there are people desperate to adopt. People turn to IVF and spend a fortune when they could adopt a child - if survived the abortion epidemic. Unfortunately, it is an epidemic with a 100% death rate.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Ask any pregnant mom. She knows what's in there and it's a developing baby. Every single one will say things like, "I'm hope my baby has his daddy's eyes." She knows what it is.

It only becomes a "thing" when the woman is pregnant and regrets it. It's her way of convincing herself that it's ok to have an abortion.

 

[Sparagmos]

Its proof that social distancing / working-from-home doesn't prevent Covid transmission.

It's also proof that we closed down factories, offices, shops, bankrupted businesses, made people lose jobs, and wrecked the world economy for NOTHING.

It's proof that our world is run by people who have malevolent agendas or just plain stupid.

Dude, the protests are outside. And we are all wearing masks. Have you read about the numbers of infected and deaths in meat processing plants and nursing homes? This simply supports what scientists have been saying, that the risk is greatly reduced when one is outside and ppl use masks.

 

[stevil]

To you, maybe. To Christians, the unborn is just as human as anyone else.

I never said that the unborn wasn't human.
The post that I responded to was refering to the unborn as if it were an infant.

Standard Terminology for Fetal, Infant, and Perinatal Deaths
A fetus is defined from 8 weeks after conception until term while in the uterus. An infant is live born and younger than 365 days of age.

We live in a throw away world. Throw away morals, throw away goods, throw away packaging. And throw away people. The insanity is that there are people desperate to adopt. People turn to IVF and spend a fortune when they could adopt a child - if survived the abortion epidemic. Unfortunately, it is an epidemic with a 100% death rate.

Personally, I want small government.
I don't want to live in a nanny state.
I don't want my government to be telling me how to be good. To force me to be good.
I don't want to be told how to dress, or what to eat. I don't want to be arrested for swearing or for holding hands with a girl.

Government should focus on making society safe, stable and thriving and let people have the freedom to make their own choices.
A woman having an abortion does not make society unsafe or unstable. It is not the government's remit to get involved here.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I never said that the unborn wasn't human.
The post that I responded to was refering to the unborn as if it were an infant.

Standard Terminology for Fetal, Infant, and Perinatal Deaths
A fetus is defined from 8 weeks after conception until term while in the uterus. An infant is live born and younger than 365 days of age.


Personally, I want small government.
I don't want to live in a nanny state.
I don't want my government to be telling me how to be good. To force me to be good.
I don't want to be told how to dress, or what to eat. I don't want to be arrested for swearing or for holding hands with a girl.

Government should focus on making society safe, stable and thriving and let people have the freedom to make their own choices.
A woman having an abortion does not make society unsafe or unstable. It is not the government's remit to get involved here.

So people should have the right to kill criminals? Don't want to feel unsafe walking the street. Should you have the right to run a speeding driver off the road? You have the right to be safe, of course. Yeah, and watch out for that homeless guy. He's probably a drug addict. Kill him before he gets to you.

A woman who has had an abortion is a damaged woman. Some who have no conscience may not be troubled, but they are in the minority for now.

In a time when contraception is freely available, there is little excuse for unwanted pregnancy.

I'm aware of the official definitions. They are wrong.

 

[SummerMadness]

So people should have the right to kill criminals? Don't want to feel unsafe walking the street. Should you have the right to run a speeding driver off the road? You have the right to be safe, of course. Yeah, and watch out for that homeless guy. He's probably a drug addict. Kill him before he gets to you.

A woman who has had an abortion is a damaged woman. Some who have no conscience may not be troubled, but they are in the minority for now.

In a time when contraception is freely available, there is little excuse for unwanted pregnancy.

I'm aware of the official definitions. They are wrong.

This is not a thread about abortion, please stay on-topic.

 

[Pope66]

Dude, the protests are outside. And we are all wearing masks. Have you read about the numbers of infected and deaths in meat processing plants and nursing homes? This simply supports what scientists have been saying, that the risk is greatly reduced when one is outside and ppl use masks.

I have seen footage of the protests and not everyone was wearing masks and not everyone was practising social distancing. I know of cases of people that have corona that have attended the rally. A wiser approach would be for the cause would be to show your sympathy & solidarity online, social media or talk to the people over phone.

 

[Sparagmos]

I have seen footage of the protests and not everyone was wearing masks and not everyone was practising social distancing. I know of cases of people that have corona that have attended the rally. A wiser approach would be for the cause would be to show your sympathy & solidarity online, social media or talk to the people over phone.

Not everyone - but were a majority wearing them? Here, its pretty much everyone wearing them. I’d say it’s more related to what the general public is doing in that part of the country.

I agree, it would be safer to show “sympathy” online but that wouldn’t have created all the change we’re seeing. There is no replacement for massive street protests, historically this is how change comes about and it’s working!

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Ask any pregnant mom. She knows what's in there and it's a developing baby. Every single one will say things like, "I'm hope my baby has his daddy's eyes." She knows what it is.

My wife at the time referred to my eventual son as a fetus until after he was born. Then she used the word “baby”. Other women around me did the same thing, so your statement is demonstrably false.

 

[SummerMadness]

Parties — Not Protests — Are Causing Spikes In Coronavirus

As the U.S. begins to open back up, coronavirus clusters — where multiple people contract COVID-19 at the same event or location — are popping up all over the country. And despite drawing massive crowds, protests against police violence and racial injustice in Washington state weren't among those clusters.

"We did have a rally in Bellingham, which is our county seat, and there was also a protest, and we have not been able to connect a single case to that rally or to the protest, and what we're finding is in large part that's due to the use of masks," Erika Lautenbach, the director of the Whatcom County Health Department in Washington State, tells NPR's All Things Considered. "Almost everyone at the rally was wearing a mask, and it's really a testament to how effective masks are in preventing the spread of this disease."

 

[stevil]

So people should have the right to kill criminals?

I've never said that. But please, do go on...

Don't want to feel unsafe walking the street.

Yes, people should feel safe walking the street. There should be CCTV, there should be lights, there shouldn't be too many narrow obscured dark alleys...

Should you have the right to run a speeding driver off the road?

No, of course not. At least we agree on that. That's some common ground there.
Society wouldn't be safe if people were driving on the roads and ramming each other in order to run a speeder off the road.

You have the right to be safe, of course.

Yes, common ground. This is good.

Yeah, and watch out for that homeless guy.

Government should take care of the homeless. Give them state housing, give them food, warmth, shelter. Help them gain skills, help them apply for jobs.

He's probably a drug addict.

I wouldn't assume so. If he is, I would hope the government could help out there.

Kill him before he gets to you.

Murdering people should be illegal. I don't want to live in a society where people can murder each other. I don't want to be murdered, I don't want my wife or kids to be murdered, I don't want vigilante justice or feuds and wars to break out.
But interesting that you have chosen to write this, as if you are accusing me of something that I never said and never thought. Would be better if you choose civil discourse as a method to communicate with people.

A woman who has had an abortion is a damaged woman.

Nope, don't agree with that. It isn't my place to judge her.

Some who have no conscience may not be troubled, but they are in the minority for now.

Huh, where did this come from.

In a time when contraception is freely available, there is little excuse for unwanted pregnancy.

Contraceptions should be freely available.
In USA wasn't one of the far right Christian issues with "Obama care" that they didn't want to include family planning or contraceptives in the Medical package?
Contraceptives certainly help, but there is no fool proof contraceptive. Unwanted pregnancy can and does happen.

 

[Pope66]

Not everyone - but were a majority wearing them? Here, its pretty much everyone wearing them. I’d say it’s more related to what the general public is doing in that part of the country.

I agree, it would be safer to show “sympathy” online but that wouldn’t have created all the change we’re seeing. There is no replacement for massive street protests, historically this is how change comes about and it’s working!

Well when there is no worldwide pandemic, it be great to have mass protests in the street, but now the US has record number of corona cases as of today, I don't think it will be effective. Going further mass rallies in the streets during the ever increasing corona cases will not be good.

I would be happy to go to a protest once there is no more global pandemic and will march with the blacks.

What can people do is to pray as prayer can be really effective on fighting the demons of racism.

God of justice, In your wisdom you create all people in your image, without exception. Through your goodness, open our eyes to see the dignity, beauty, and worth of every human being. Open our minds to understand that all your children are brothers and sisters in the same human family. Open our hearts to repent of racist attitudes, behaviors, and speech which demean others. Open our ears to hear the cries of those wounded by racial discrimination, and their passionate appeals for change. Strengthen our resolve to make amends for past injustices and to right the wrongs of history. And fill us with courage that we might seek to heal wounds, build bridges, forgive and be forgiven, and establish peace and equality for all in our communities. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.

Prayer for Racial Healing - Catholic Charities USA

 

[loveofourlord]

Well when there is no worldwide pandemic, it be great to have mass protests in the street, but now the US has record number of corona cases as of today, I don't think it will be effective. Going further mass rallies in the streets during the ever increasing corona cases will not be good.

I would be happy to go to a protest once there is no more global pandemic and will march with the blacks.

What can people do is to pray as prayer can be really effective on fighting the demons of racism.

God of justice, In your wisdom you create all people in your image, without exception. Through your goodness, open our eyes to see the dignity, beauty, and worth of every human being. Open our minds to understand that all your children are brothers and sisters in the same human family. Open our hearts to repent of racist attitudes, behaviors, and speech which demean others. Open our ears to hear the cries of those wounded by racial discrimination, and their passionate appeals for change. Strengthen our resolve to make amends for past injustices and to right the wrongs of history. And fill us with courage that we might seek to heal wounds, build bridges, forgive and be forgiven, and establish peace and equality for all in our communities. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.

Prayer for Racial Healing - Catholic Charities USA

yeah, I think at this point the protests have done their jobs, and best to start closing up, least till after covid.

 

[BNR32FAN]

There's No Evidence That Protests Have Caused a Coronavirus Surge

We had 900,000 new cases in the month of May and were only at 400,000 since then. So yeah it actually seems to have slowed much to my surprise.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

They had been rising quickly before any of the protests took place and are linked with various states "opening up" too soon.

Like I've touched on in multiple previous posts, I don't think there's any good data to indicate that a phased re-opening in is a major culprit, much less the only culprit.

Let's review the timelines a bit for Florida.

They lifted the stay at home order May 5th -- no resurgence
May 10th retail was allowed to reopen with capacity limits -- no resurgence
May 15th restaurants were allowed to open with capacity limits -- no resurgence

As of May 25-26th, they were seeing two of the lowest "new infection days" since the whole thing started.

The George Floyd Protests started May 26th... (there's an average of 2-14 days of incubation before onset). 6/3, the major resurgence starts.

The narrative getting pushed is that "it wasn't the protests, it was the re-opening on 5/4"

That timing would be pretty coincidental...

It's especially coincidental that the timeline is almost identical for California, who wasn't been "recklessly reopening too soon"...they've kept everything closed, imposed curfews, even prevented people from going to the beaches...almost the exact same trend for Arizona as well.

It's either one big coincidence that the resurgences started occurring in so many places (some strictly locked down, others not) right in the exact window of "incubation-to-onset" from the date of 5/26. (which would mean they'd start becoming symptomatic between 5/28 and 6/11).


This is a case where they're going to have to pick a narrative and stick with it. Either the protests weren't at all the cause, and it was just a coincidence...but that would mean that large outdoor gatherings isn't a big risk for transmission, at which point, they have to admit they make a mistake by stopping people from going to parks and beaches. If 1,000 people all packed in on a city street yelling isn't a big transmitter, then there was never any reason why 5 friends couldn't meet at a park for a picnic or in someone's back yard for a cookout.

If the protests were the cause, then they'd have to admit that by bashing phased reopening, but not mass protests, they were "playing politics with a deadly virus" just as they've accused the republican governors of doing.

 

[Cshuffle777]

My wife at the time referred to my eventual son as a fetus until after he was born. Then she used the word “baby”. Other women around me did the same thing, so your statement is demonstrably false.

Perhaps you're a bit confused about the meaning of the term "demonstrably false."

 

[NxNW]

Ask any pregnant mom. She knows what's in there and it's a developing baby. Every single one will say things like, "I'm hope my baby has his daddy's eyes." She knows what it is.

Emotional anecdotes don't constitute a coherent argument.

 

[NxNW]

In a time when contraception is freely available, there is little excuse for unwanted pregnancy.

Birth control used correctly still has a failure rate of about 1%. Consent to sex is not consent to becoming pregnant.