There is only One Gospel

[A. Christian]

It's ok. Yeah, I wasn't a member and no, I don't believe in the sign gifts as taught, though I am not going to say that God can't use them. But the teaching I have seen concerning them doesn't generally add up, to my mind.

My primary influence, I suppose, has been my own disability to do anything of myself to please God, and discovering that this life is not about me, nor my Christian success or performance, but about (and for) God himself. I came to my current views before I found out they were essentially Reformed in nature: Sovereignty and Imminence of God in all things. Inability of man to do anything worthy in and of himself. Predestination of all things, but particularly the elect becoming one with Christ. And many many implications of these things, such as monergism.

Thanks for the opportunity to explain, even if you didn't mean it for me, lol.

I find that the main issue regarding the gifts of there spirit is that we all live in america where the vast majority of our church is weak, complacent, and compromising and we do not get much interaction with those who live in a place where the church is being persecuted. I have heard stories of wonders amd miracles being worked there. Persecution brings strength and the biggest sacrifice that Ive had to make today was waking up from my nap to go to work. I remember God revealing himself to me the most when I was locked up and our relationship was at its closest. Ive let many distractions and comforts draw me away from that closeness. I mean we still have a relationship it just isn't as close as back then. And I know that this is a problem facing many of the church in america.

 

[RickReads]

I find that the main issue regarding the gifts of there spirit is that we all live in america where the vast majority of our church is weak, complacent, and compromising and we do not get much interaction with those who live in a place where the church is being persecuted. I have heard stories of wonders amd miracles being worked there. Persecution brings strength and the biggest sacrifice that Ive had to make today was waking up from my nap to go to work. I remember God revealing himself to me the most when I was locked up and our relationship was at its closest. Ive let many distractions and comforts draw me away from that closeness. I mean we still have a relationship it just isn't as close as back then. And I know that this is a problem facing many of the church in america.

"Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country." Zechariah 6

 

[RCrihfield]

I'm not sure why you think I (or maybe you think Calvinism?) is reluctant to say choice. We do not take away man's choice. We do believe in real, responsible choice, that has real, even eternal, results. However, Free Will, many of us deny --others just use it to mean that we do choose --not that our choices are

Remember I have never studied Calvinisn. So I am working based on my assumptions and what others have told me. If I am hearing you correctly, God is choosing us by His Word as it works in our hearts.

Without here going too much into what salvific faith actually is, vs common faith that even unbelievers can have, I use the Biblical term, "receive", rather than "accept". We are receptacles of faith, given to us by God. This does not negate the fact that we choose it, and willfully so, but it does not put the power in our silly hands --it is the work of God.

Receive and accept seem pretty synonymous to me. (No need to go into detail, I have a good idea what that might look like....too many weeds) We receive the word and store it up within us and grow up into Christ. No argument from me.

Some people can even tell you there came a time in their life when they realized they already believed, without any particular turning point or choice on their part.

I don't know a day in my life that I didn't believe and KNOW God. I have no "testimony" of my salvation save this fact. I guess I was chosen before I was born.

The believer is never alone in his choices, but God works in him, (even by use of his disobedience). In both cases, the choices are real, but only in the one is God to be credited. "Without me, you can do nothing."

"By use of his disobedience".....yep I can tell you about that. I am reluctant to go into detail here but clearly.....CLEARLY...God has used my horrible sins to bring me to a stronger relationship with Him and perfect my knowledge and faith.

Thank you for this study. Great stuff.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Remember I have never studied Calvinisn. So I am working based on my assumptions and what others have told me. If I am hearing you correctly, God is choosing us by His Word as it works in our hearts.



Receive and accept seem pretty synonymous to me. (No need to go into detail, I have a good idea what that might look like....too many weeds) We receive the word and store it up within us and grow up into Christ. No argument from me.



I don't know a day in my life that I didn't believe and KNOW God. I have no "testimony" of my salvation save this fact. I guess I was chosen before I was born.



"By use of his disobedience".....yep I can tell you about that. I am reluctant to go into detail here but clearly.....CLEARLY...God has used my horrible sins to bring me to a stronger relationship with Him and perfect my knowledge and faith.

Thank you for this study. Great stuff.

so you were born a believer ?

when was your earliest recollection of God, how old were you ?

who did you hear about Jesus from ?

 

[RCrihfield]

so you were born a believer ?

when was your earliest recollection of God, how old were you ?

who did you hear about Jesus from ?

Are you referring to my comment of being chosen before I was born? That was really kind of tongue in cheek....but if you believe we are predestined to be saved or lost you would have to concede that point. If you followed our part of the thread from start to finish, it would probably make more sense.

I attended church twice on Sunday and every Wednesday night for decades. Earliest memory???? No idea. Being in sunday school in preschool class and asking to go downstairs with the "big" kids. Didn't like coloring that much I guess. Maybe 4 yrs old.

That's a recollection of church....you are asking when I knew who God is, aren't you? I honestly don't know a time that I didn't know God made the world. He is alive and in control. He can do miracles....all the things you teach a child about God.

My mother would get first credit for teaching me about God. She sang to me. My dad would be second. He taught us all the time....in the car....at dinner table. He wasn't touchie feelie about it, he just quoted scripture. My great uncle was the minister most of my years growing up. He was a great debater and presented an easy to follow lesson even for say a 10 yr old. He was mean if you disagreed with him.

I credit the CoC with giving me a solid knowledge of scripture and God for getting me out of there. God has been perfecting me ever since.

The Spirit "convicted me" to become a Christian when I was almost 12 yrs old. But that would mean having to say prayers in services so I resisted the urge to be baptized until I was 19. That's a lot of white knuckle invitation songs. God was with me the whole time, blessing me and pouring His Spirit on me.

 

[Saint Steven]

the burden is upon you to prove Peter preached a different gospel.

Paul declared he or an angle is accursed by God for any other gospel than the one he preached. Its black and white. Same Jesus , same message and Paul states any other Jesus or any other gospel they are accursed.

hope this helps !!!

An "angle"? That's pretty funny. - lol

Well, it should be obvious that Peter preached a SOMEWHAT different gospel to the Jews. And DIFFERENT is different. But how do we fit what Paul was saying about anyone being accursed due to ANOTHER gospel? Good question.

 

[Mark Quayle]

An "angle"? That's pretty funny. - lol

Well, it should be obvious that Peter preached a SOMEWHAT different gospel to the Jews. And DIFFERENT is different. But how do we fit what Paul was saying about anyone being accursed due to ANOTHER gospel? Good question.

I like to skinny it down to its essence to see if all the words fit. If a clinical idiot, incapable of reason or awareness as we consider them, can be changed to desire God and to 'understand' that it is not worthy of God's mercy, the meaning, and not the words, is the point.

This brings to mind the "Heavenly language" thread. I couldn't come up with the words or context to make plain what I mean by saying that God's language IS meaning. The very word of God IS Christ. When he spoke in the beginning, he spoke things into being. (Haha, there are huge, very serious, and very happy, puns here!)

Anyhow, what I'm getting at with this reply is that the Gospel IS Christ, and redemption and all the other facts relevant to a complete gospel have been the same from the beginning. The words may vary, and the focus of each version differ with the listener and preacher, but the facts remain.

 

[Saint Steven]

I like to skinny it down to its essence to see if all the words fit. If a clinical idiot, incapable of reason or awareness as we consider them, can be changed to desire God and to 'understand' that it is not worthy of God's mercy, the meaning, and not the words, is the point.

This brings to mind the "Heavenly language" thread. I couldn't come up with the words or context to make plain what I mean by saying that God's language IS meaning. The very word of God IS Christ. When he spoke in the beginning, he spoke things into being. (Haha, there are huge, very serious, and very happy, puns here!)

Anyhow, what I'm getting at with this reply is that the Gospel IS Christ, and redemption and all the other facts relevant to a complete gospel have been the same from the beginning. The words may vary, and the focus of each version differ with the listener and preacher, but the facts remain.

So, would you agree that no one is saved by doctrine?

 

[Mark Quayle]

So, would you agree that no one is saved by doctrine?

Of course, though God uses doctrine to open eyes and increase understanding and faith.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

So, would you agree that no one is saved by doctrine?

Faith comes by hearing, a hearing by the word of Christ.

Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[RickReads]

Faith comes by hearing, a hearing by the word of Christ.

Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

I enjoy listening to good sermons so don`t get me wrong, but I think you have to take into account that few people could read back then and the New Testament wasn`t completely written.

I am blessed in that my faith is not dependant on listening to a preacher. I have an abundance of scripture I can read for myself, numerous commentaries and thousands of sermans I can listen to anytime I want.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

I enjoy listening to good sermons so don`t get me wrong, but I think you have to take into account that few people could read back then and the New Testament wasn`t completely written.

I am blessed in that my faith is not dependant on listening to a preacher. I have an abundance of scripture I can read for myself, numerous commentaries and thousands of sermans I can listen to anytime I want.

What I meant by my post was a person comes to faith by hearing the gospel from Gods word regardless of the messenger. Its the gospel which saves not the messenger delivering that message. Its the power of God unto salvation.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Did that clarify my previous post ?

 

[Saint Steven]

Of course, though God uses doctrine to open eyes and increase understanding and faith.

How so?

 

[Saint Steven]

Faith comes by hearing, a hearing by the word of Christ.

Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Nothing about doctrine there. The gospel message is not doctrine; and doctrine is not the gospel message.

Saint Steven said: ↑
So, would you agree that no one is saved by doctrine?

 

[Saint Steven]

Of course, though God uses doctrine to open eyes and increase understanding and faith.

You agreed with post #250 but not post #248.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Nothing about doctrine there. The gospel message is not doctrine; and doctrine is not the gospel message.

Saint Steven said: ↑
So, would you agree that no one is saved by doctrine?

The gospel is doctrine the most important and essential doctrine there is as per Galatians 1 and 1 Corinthians 15

 

[Mark Quayle]

How so?

I don't consider doctrine to be the word of God as such, but about the word of God. But most of us can benefit by another point of view, and by exposition of the word, and by those who have studied things in the word we have not. But God uses everything, to grow us and to bring us closer. But study (reading, reasoning, discussing etc of the Word more than most things.)

I liked #250 (Jesus is YHWH) answer to your question. It bears reading again.

 

[Mark Quayle]

You agreed with post #250 but not post #248.

I thought I did. I said, "of course", in answering it.

 

[Saint Steven]

The gospel is doctrine the most important and essential doctrine there is as per Galatians 1 and 1 Corinthians 15

@Mark Quayle said it like this:
"I don't consider doctrine to be the word of God as such, but about the word of God."

Exactly.
Doctrine is a man-made attempt to codify what we read in the Bible. Doctrines are more detailed than Creeds. And get into areas where we Christians don't all agree. The gray areas we discussed earlier. And frankly, we can't get everyone to agree on the black and white doctrinal issues either.

 

[RickReads]

What I meant by my post was a person comes to faith by hearing the gospel from Gods word regardless of the messenger. Its the gospel which saves not the messenger delivering that message. Its the power of God unto salvation.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

Did that clarify my previous post ?

I don`t know. I really don`t have issue with it but I think it`s noteworthy to consider the illiteracy and incomplete knowledge that existed back then.