There is "one", (a God) that could predict and know everything from beginning to end...?

[Neogaia777]

At times it was the Father's will for the Son (YHWH) (and Jesus) to show his wrath or anger, or upsetedness... "Why" is the "big question"...? Especially since those feelings were to be made "past tense" at some point, or were not "specifically", the Father's (himself's) exact (same) feelings in those moments, and at those times, but that of the Son(s)...? Yet, it was the Father's will for the/his Son to show and express them (those feelings) towards us, at those times in the OT and in the past (and in the NT also) (but let's focus on them in the OT here for now)...

I know it had to be done and was probably a part of the Father's will because it was the one and only for them (God) to show their (God's) "heart"... Otherwise, how could they (show us their heart) and how could we know their heart without it/them (those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect) being expressed and shown to us... Beyond that I don't really know, other than that... But, the Father may have or may have had "other reason's" for it/them as well (those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect, being expressed and shown to us)...

Why "else" do you think it was, or might have been...? (the Father's will for them (God) to show us those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect) (back then)...? (and through the Son)...? (and "for us") (what would be the "why and for us" part)...?

God Bless!

Or is his wrath still kindled today toward the wicked...?

And, if so, who are the wicked (today)...?

God Bless!

 

[Valetic]

At times it was the Father's will for the Son (YHWH) (and Jesus) to show his wrath or anger, or upsetedness... "Why" is the "big question"...? Especially since those feelings were to be made "past tense" at some point, or were not "specifically", the Father's (himself's) exact (same) feelings in those moments, or at those times, but that of the Son(s)...? Yet, it was the Father's will for the/his Son to show and express them (those feelings) towards us, at those times in the OT and in the past (and in the NT also) (but let's focus on them in the OT here for now)...

I know it had to be done and was probably a part of the Father's will because it was the one and only for them (God) to show their (God's) "heart"... Otherwise, how could they (show us their heart) and how could we know their heart without it/them (those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect) being expressed and shown to us... Beyond that I don't really know, other than that... But, the Father may have or may have had "other reason's" for it/them as well (those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect, being expressed and shown to us)...

Why "else" do you think it was, or might have been...? (the Father's will for them (God) to show us those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect) (back then)...? (and through the Son)...? (and "for us") (what would be the "why and for us" part)...?

God Bless!

Very thought provoking.. Perhaps it was a means to display His authenticity as Ruler and Creator to a people who did not fully grasp who he was at the time, and for the ones in the future to look back and learn from.

 

[Neogaia777]

Very thought provoking.. Perhaps it was a means to display His authenticity as Ruler and Creator to a people who did not fully grasp who he was at the time, and for the ones in the future to look back and learn from.

Maybe,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

OK... Why do we see a certain amount of foreknowledge of foreknowing in the OT, with YHWH (yet not complete or completely, for reasons already stated as to why YHWH cannot completely all-knowing)... Anyway, "why" do we see a "certain amount of foreknowledge or foreknowing with YHWH (and Christ) in both Testaments...? I think, it is not only because he did "just have" a certain (yet limited to compared to the true Father, or the God spoken about in the OP) (yet way more than any of us)...

Anyway, I think it is not only because he just "did have a certain amount of foreknowledge or foreknowing" (or insight) into things (people, places, events, situations, circumstances, ect) at times, but, also that he (YHWH in the OT, and Christ in the NT) also was continually going to the Father and getting "downloads" (so to speak) from him (the Father), as to what was "next" or what was to come "after" following "prior instructions" from the Father before that, or what he was told before in a previous "download" from and/or with the Father, or what was revealed from or by going to him (the Father) in prayer (or communication) (or communing with the Father) before that...

He (YHWH and Christ) never did his own will, but only the Father's always, and this is why we can see much "providence" or a "providential nature" to and with God (them) (in the OT) with "people, places, events, situations, circumstances, and happenings", ect... Cause that has the fingerprints of God the Father "all over it", and is one way we can discover the Father through the Son (YHWH in the OT, Christ in the NT)... With Jesus in the NT we see this as well, and for the same reasons as YHWH in the OT (that is, by his/their continually getting "downloads" (so to speak) from the Father, as to what was next, and sometimes after it and that, ect.)...

But the Father never told YHWH or Jesus "all of everything all at once", or at one time, but did in it all in "steps" and/or "phases" with him (his Son) (YHWH in the OT, and Jesus in the NT)... This also stands to reason that, at times, that "they" (YHWH/Jesus) may not have "completely understood" sometimes, (in that way being like us) but had to have "faith" and keep (the) faith and not stop doing what he/they was/were told... With Jesus, as to his "specific words" that he was speaking or spoke at the time and/or in the moment, (or in the "heat of the moment", with like the Pharisees) I believe those came directly from the Holy Spirit in him, or within him... That is "of and from the Father" (also) and is his (the Father's) spirit, and also the Son's spirit also then also, and is also God himself, also...

But they (YHWH and Christ) were always and continually doing the Father's will as their own will, but it was the Father's will and the Father's plan was involved and is why we see a great deal of providence and providential nature to God, especially in the OT, that has the Father's fingerprints, specifically, all over it... But it was the The Father's will "for the Son", as our God, "for us" as his (the Son's) people... It was the "Father's will for the Son for us"... IOW's the Father's will is not for himself, but is "for the/his Son (YHWH/Jesus) for us"....

And this is important to keep in mind when looking at it or examining it, (their/God's will) (or plans or providential nature or "whatever") (character, personality, ect)...

God Bless!

At times it was the Father's will for the Son (YHWH) (and Jesus) to show his wrath or anger, or upsetedness... "Why" is the "big question"...? Especially since those feelings were to be made "past tense" at some point, or were not "specifically", the Father's (himself's) exact (same) feelings in those moments, or at those times, but that of the Son(s)...? Yet, it was the Father's will for the/his Son to show and express them (those feelings) towards us, at those times in the OT and in the past (and in the NT also) (but let's focus on them in the OT here for now)...

I know it had to be done and was probably a part of the Father's will because it was the one and only for them (God) to show their (God's) "heart"... Otherwise, how could they (show us their heart) and how could we know their heart without it/them (those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect) being expressed and shown to us... Beyond that I don't really know, other than that... But, the Father may have or may have had "other reason's" for it/them as well (those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect, being expressed and shown to us)...

Why "else" do you think it was, or might have been...? (the Father's will for them (God) to show us those thoughts, emotions, feelings, ect) (back then)...? (and through the Son)...? (and "for us") (what would be the "why and for us" part)...?

God Bless!

Now does this mean YHWH/Jesus was always just following orders and had no thoughts for himself at all, or no will of his own...? No, it does not... for he did...

Every time he went to get his "download(s)" from the Father (so to speak) it happened from or with a "two sided", two way "conversation" or discussion, in which they "reasoned together", and reached a "mutual decision" or consensus together... And that became their will for that time, and in that moment, till it happened or needed to happen "again"...

Some would say YHWH/Jesus was having "conversations with himself", or with a voice in(side) his/their head, like many of us do... But, it takes "two" to even have a "conversation with yourself", for when we "reason with ourselves", who are we talking to...? since it takes two (at least)...?

On the "other side" of that those conversations and/or reasoning(s) with, some say "ourselves", is it really ourselves alone and no other...? Or are we actually talking to and with "someone else"...? I would say it is someone else... "another presence" in you that is "beside(s) your own", alone... And that it is not "just you" (only) during these times... And hopefully, it is God and/or the Spirit of God (hopefully)...

Anyway, YHWH/Jesus did this, and I am wondering who or what was on the "other side" or the "other end" of "that/those conversations and/or discussions that reached a general consensus or agreement with one another" by/through reasoning with one another...

Was it perhaps the Father (God) or the Spirit (or voice) of the Father God or Holy Spirit in and with them during these times...? Guiding/directing and helping them (reach and make decisions) during those times...

And, is it, or can it be, the same for us, as well...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Now does this mean YHWH/Jesus was always just following orders and had no thoughts for himself at all, or no will of his own...? No, it does not... for he did...

Every time he went to get his "download(s)" from the Father (so to speak) it happened from or with a "two sided", two way "conversation" or discussion, in which they "reasoned together", and reached a "mutual decision" or consensus together... And that became their will for that time, and in that moment, till it happened or needed to happen "again"...

Some would say YHWH/Jesus was having "conversations with himself", or with a voice in(side) his/their head, like many of us do... But, it takes "two" to even have a "conversation with yourself", for when we "reason with ourselves", who are we talking to...? since it takes two (at least)...?

On the "other side" of that those conversations and/or reasoning(s) with, some say "ourselves", is it really ourselves alone and no other...? Or are we actually talking to and with "someone else"...? I would say it is someone else... "another presence" in you that is "beside(s) your own", alone... And that it is not "just you" (only) during these times... And hopefully, it is God and/or the Spirit of God (hopefully)...

Anyway, YHWH/Jesus did this, and I am wondering who or what was on the "other side" or the "other end" of "that/those conversations and/or discussions that reached a general consensus or agreement with one another" by/through reasoning with one another...

Was it perhaps the Father (God) or the Spirit (or voice) of the Father God or Holy Spirit in and with them during these times...? Guiding/directing and helping them (reach and make decisions) during those times...

And, is it, or can it be, the same for us, as well...?

God Bless!

The Father "already knew" way, way ahead of time, how these "conversations" (between them) were gonna "flow" and go, and what conclusions were going to be reached (by them) way, way ahead of time... but, the Son did not... Not all of it anyway...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The Son of Man (Jesus, as a man, in the flesh) was the Son of the Son of God (YHWH)... However, he (Jesus) called himself both the Son of Man, and "the" "Son of God"... "Why"...? Because he was (both)...

The easiest way to say it in human terms, is that YHWH is their "past"... I say "their" because they were each other, and were to "become each other" and were "one with one another", and a "new man" (or God) (like the Father) at the cross... (Ephesians 2:15) The God of the Law, and The God of Grace (and love and mercy and forgiveness and truth)...

The Son of Man (Jesus), and the Son of God (YHWH), were "one" or (in human terms) became one... And by being and becoming "one" they also became "one and the same" with God the Father, or the always 100% truly omniscient one... That is who "they" are "now"... And who they were before Creation, yet not after Creation... That is who "they" are "now"...

Because Jesus, the man, was "both", (Son of Man and Son of God) his/their Father, was the true Father God, the always 100% truly and wholly and completely, always 100% truly omniscient one... They are like him now... As they were in the beginning...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

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[Neogaia777]

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[Neogaia777]

If you think hard and deep on ALL the "factors" that influence or guide our (supposed) choices and decisions, they would seem "innumerable" to us, but that's only "to us"...

However, God numbers and can number them all, and fully knows them all... And, also how they came about, or progressed, from the very beginning... All the way back to when he set everything into motion, or things came into being or from the very moment that he gave it all "life"... It's all a program to him.... Much like a extremely complex and very highly advanced computer program, of which we are all just dancers...

It's all very highly predictable and "we" are all very highly predictable and all (is) fully knowable to him... All the way back from very, very long ago...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I just have one thing for you... What reason would an always 100% fully omniscient God, fully knowing how all would go and be from the very, very beginning... What reason would he have to get or be "upset" or disturbed, or moved, or perturbed by anything, anything at all...? The answer is: there is just "no reason" at all for a God like that to do or be so, or be like that ever at all, ever...

However, this would cause a problem for such a one to be able to reveal or show himself him or his "heart", which would require another... That "fact" that "problem" would require another who could and would be able to do that... For that one to be able to do that, he would have to just slightly more limited in certain ways than the other one (to be able to do that) otherwise it could not happen... Things would have to be able to happen (to and with him) (such a one chosen for this) that he could not predict or know, or he would not be expecting sometimes... He would have to be limited in such a way for that (to be able to) happen...

This is YHWH in the OT, and Jesus the man in the NT... for they are one in the same one...

Now the Father, (the always 100% truly omniscient one), could even predict and fully know, not just only our choices, but all the choices/decisions/emotions and actions/recations of that one chosen (for this task) one as well (as well as us and ours also)... His (that ones) choices would be a/the "central", vital part of the overall, always 100% truly omniscient ones "plan" and plans (for us and him and for all) and that ones will from the very beginning...

YHWH/Jesus/God the Son's choices/actions/decisions ect, were all fully predictable and fully knowable and were all fully known way, way ahead of time by this God (who I call the true Father) from the very beginning of him/them and us (creation)... All fully all completely knowable and were all fully completely known by the one who (always) fully knew it all, and knows/knew it all from the very beginning, including all the actions choices decision/emotions and emotional actions/reactions of even his own Son as our God from the very beginning... All that/those (choices/actions/decisons, ect) (his (that one chosen to be our God and reveal God to us) and ours) all being part of his (the true Father's, the always 100% truly and fully omniscient ones) overall plan(s) and will from the very, very beginning...

Are you following what I am saying...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I just have one thing for you... What reason would an always 100% fully omniscient God, fully knowing how all would go and be from the very, very beginning... What reason would he have to get or be "upset" or disturbed, or moved, or perturbed by anything, anything at all...? The answer is: there is just "no reason" at all for a God like that to do or be so, or be like that ever at all, ever...

However, this would cause a problem for such a one to be able to reveal or show himself him or his "heart", which would require another... That "fact" that "problem" would require another who could and would be able to do that... For that one to be able to do that, he would have to just slightly more limited in certain ways than the other one (to be able to do that) otherwise it could not happen... Things would have to be able to happen (to and with him) (such a one chosen for this) that he could not predict or know, or he would not be expecting sometimes... He would have to be limited in such a way for that (to be able to) happen...

This is YHWH in the OT, and Jesus the man in the NT... for they are one in the same one...

Now the Father, (the always 100% truly omniscient one), could even predict and fully know, not just only our choices, but all the choices/decisions/emotions and actions/recations of that one chosen (for this task) one as well (as well as us and ours also)... His (that ones) choices would be a/the "central", vital part of the overall, always 100% truly omniscient ones "plan" and plans (for us and him and for all) and that ones will from the very beginning...

YHWH/Jesus/God the Son's choices/actions/decisions ect, were all fully predictable and fully knowable and were all fully known way, way ahead of time by this God (who I call the true Father) from the very beginning of him/them and us (creation)... All fully all completely knowable and were all fully completely known by the one who (always) fully knew it all, and knows/knew it all from the very beginning, including all the actions choices decision/emotions and emotional actions/reactions of even his own Son as our God from the very beginning... All that/those (choices/actions/decisons, ect) (his (that one chosen to be our God and reveal God to us) and ours) all being part of his (the true Father's, the always 100% truly and fully omniscient ones) overall plan(s) and will from the very, very beginning...

Are you following what I am saying...?

God Bless!

Is God's wrath, does his (The Son's, I'm assuming, though it may be the feelings of the Father as well) does his wrath still exist today, and will it be unleashed upon us in the last days, or is or has it been unleashed upon us periodically in the past after what Jesus did, between that time and now, or are we just experiencing natural consequence(s) for our sinful actions/inactions...?

The Father may have made place way ahead of time, and made the Son's wrath (their wrath maybe) he may have made place for the Son's wrath (to be expressed) and made it part of his (the Father's) plan(s) way ahead of time...

What do you think...?

God Bless

 

[Neogaia777]

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[Neogaia777]

As long as our choices for the future are dictated by our past (experiences) (including and and all "factors") (even the smallest ones) we will never be able to, nor never did we ever, nor can we ever, "operate", or choose in a way, that is not all fully knowable, and all fully totally predictable by a fully all-knowing, completely and totally fully omniscient being (or God) (the true Father)...

What does he "do" with this knowledge is the real question...?

What is that one "like"...?

There is only one path, only one way our lives, and our world can go... We cannot (it seems), escape or change or ever "cheat fate" it seems...

What is our fate...?

God Bless!