There are Two Different Creation Accounts

[mmksparbud]

Again, I don't agree. It doesn't matter. The day argument is immaterial to my point here. My point here is that Genesis 1:1 is not necessarily part of the same period of time as Genesis 1:2 - 2:3 . It doesn't matter if the word day here means 24 hours or not.

The word on question is not immaterial at all. It means that the days during creation were NOT long periods of time, but the day in regards to the death of Adam was a long period of time. Creation was evening and morning--- not days, months, years or eons. Which goes back to your first post which states otherwise. Your statement above is quite confusing for you are saying that the day argument is immaterial and then go on to say that the day in Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2-3 is not the same period of time--it is.
Again, Adam means human--there were not 2 humans created, just one human. And then Eve from him.

 

[jhwatts]

You keep saying that Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 are the same day. I am saying they are not. I don't have to connect them. The period of time doesn't matter.

Again, Adam means human--there were not 2 humans created, just one human. And then Eve from him.

Genesis gives two distinct creations. You are assuming one.

Just curious,

How do people who believe in a strict seven days of creation deal with Ezekiel 31? This collection of events take places in Eden and it shows many people there. How does that connect with the 7 day view of Eden from Genesis 1-5?

 

[mmksparbud]

You keep saying that Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 are the same day. I am saying they are not. I don't have to connect them. The period of time doesn't matter.

Genesis gives two distinct creations. You are assuming one.

As I said. Accuracy is not what you are interested in, just in your own point of view. Yes, you have every right to your own ideas, I simply prefer accuracy and therefore it is impossible to just zee it your way when everything in the bible points to a different point of view. There are not 2 distinct creations. Just one. It is a Hebrew way of stating a story, and then going back and filling in the details later. It is done in other works of the Torah. There are thb9ngs said about the Exodus, that in other books are restated with more details, that does not make for several different 40 year travels through the dessert.

 

[mmksparbud]

Genesis gives two distinct creations. You are assuming one.

We must also remember that chapters and verses (and most of the punctuation) are a modern invention not found in the original. And they do make for easier reading and for easier finding. But simply because a new chapter starts, does not mean that is a new narrative has. In other words, Gen 2:1 is not the start of a new narrative---it is a continuation of what has come before and Gen 2:4 is actually referring to what came before, not to what is coming. Gen 2 should actually start with verse 5.

 

[mmksparbud]

How do people who believe in a strict seven days of creation deal with Ezekiel 31? This collection of events take places in Eden and it shows many people there. How does that connect with the 7 day view of Eden from Genesis 1-5?

This is first of all speaking of the then pharaoh, king of Egypt. However, there is also indication that it is speaking also of Lucifer. And it is no mystery that Lucifer and the other angels would have been created before Adam and Eve. The snake was Satan after his and his flowerers expulsion from heaven. This passage is similar to Isaiah 14.

 

[jhwatts]

This is first of all speaking of the then pharaoh, king of Egypt. However, there is also indication that it is speaking also of Lucifer. And it is no mystery that Lucifer and the other angels would have been created before Adam and Eve. The snake was Satan after his and his flowerers expulsion from heaven. This passage is similar to Isaiah 14.

Agreed, but the text describes nations and nations require many people.

 

[jhwatts]

We must also remember that chapters and verses (and most of the punctuation) are a modern invention not found in the original. And they do make for easier reading and for easier finding. But simply because a new chapter starts, does not mean that is a new narrative has. In other words, Gen 2:1 is not the start of a new narrative---it is a continuation of what has come before and Gen 2:4 is actually referring to what came before, not to what is coming. Gen 2 should actually start with verse 5.

Agreed, the did not have chapters and verse originally.

In my first post I showed that they are not organized chronologically and do not always refer to the previous text as what happed in the past.

 

[mmksparbud]

Agreed, but the text describes nations and nations require many people.

Umm--It was speaking to the pharaoh--King of Egypt---not Adam and Eve!

 

[Papias]

just zee it your way when everything in the bible points to a different point of view.

Except that exactly the opposite of what we actually have in Genesis. The two stories are not just distinct in their details, but they are also very different in structure, language, worldview, writing style, etc. That's why Bible scholars, who actually read them in the original Hebrew, have seen for centuries that they are different stories, by different authors, written at different times, to convey different ideas.

The Bibles are very clear that they are two different stories. Here's a scholar on it: Texts of Genesis: J, E, and P

In Christ-

Papias

 

[mmksparbud]

2 stories of the same event.

 

[Aman777]

Except that exactly the opposite of what we actually have in Genesis. The two stories are not just distinct in their details, but they are also very different in structure, language, worldview, writing style, etc. That's why Bible scholars, who actually read them in the original Hebrew, have seen for centuries that they are different stories, by different authors, written at different times, to convey different ideas.

There is but ONE story and it is contained in it's entirety in the first 34 verses of Genesis. It's an outline of ALL of the rest of the Bible and tells of God's Seven Day Creation. Every other verse in the Bible refers back to one of the 7 Days. We live today at Gen 1:27 because God (Trinity) is STILL creating Adam (mankind) in Christ Spiritually. Gen 1:28-31 is prophecy of events which will not happen until AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon. That's God's Truth Scripturally. Amen?

 

[jhwatts]

Umm--It was speaking to the pharaoh--King of Egypt---not Adam and Eve!

Umm--Read it. Pharaoh and his kingdom are being compared to the Assyrian empire in Eden.

Assyria is mentioned in Genesis 2:14 too.

 

[mmksparbud]

Umm--Read it. Pharaoh and his kingdom are being compared to the Assyrian empire in Eden.

Assyria is mentioned in Genesis 2:14 too.

Eze 31:2 Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
Eze 31:3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.
Eze 31:8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him:

There was no Egypt, no Assyria, no Lebanon at the time of Adam and Eve---They did not come into play until long after the flood.

 

[jhwatts]

Yes it is.

Eze 31:1 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
Eze 31:2 Son of man, speak unto Pharaoh king of Egypt, and to his multitude; Whom art thou like in thy greatness?
Eze 31:3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs

Verse 3 begins the description of who he is like in greatness.

 

[mmksparbud]

This obviously was not talking about people at the time of Adam and Eve. They did not exist. In the 1st place:
Eze 31:1 And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the third month, in the first day of the month, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Who was the me???

It was Ezekiel--and he did not exist until the Babylonian captivity.

Eze 1:1 Now it came to pass in the thirtieth year, in the fourth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God.
Eze 1:2 In the fifth day of the month, which was the fifth year of king Jehoiachin's captivity,
Eze 1:3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.

 

[jhwatts]

It was Ezekiel--and he did not exist until the Babylonian captivity.

I know. That is because Ezekiel is comparing Pharaoh and his kingdom to the Assyria in Eden. The time Eden existed was before both Pharaoh and Ezekiel.

 

[jhwatts]

Eze 31:12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.

I wonder who all these people and nations are that are in Eden?

 

[mmksparbud]

I know. That is because Ezekiel is comparing Pharaoh and his kingdom to the Assyria in Eden. The time Eden existed was before both Pharaoh and Ezekiel.

Ezekiel is not doing the comparing. God is speaking to Ezekiel---it is A METAPHORE. There was no Assyrian kingdom, no Lebanon, no Babylon, no Egypt at the time of Adam and Eve.

 

[jhwatts]

Ezekiel is not doing the comparing. God is speaking to Ezekiel---it is A METAPHORE. There was no Assyrian kingdom, no Lebanon, no Babylon, no Egypt at the time of Adam and Eve.

I'm pretty sure thats what is says. You are manipulating the scripture to conform it to your view.

 

[mmksparbud]

I wonder who all these people and nations are that are in Eden?

God told Ezekiel to go and tell the King of Egypt--the pharaoh--- God did not send Ezekiel back in time to before the flood! He was being sent to the King of Egypt during the time of Ezekiel---which was during the Babylonian captivity of the Jews.