There are Two Different Creation Accounts

jhwatts · Aug 7, 2017

There are two Adams, one made from the dust if the earth(completely earthly) and the other in the likeness of God (and of God).

Better yet, look at Luke 3 and the linage of Christ. You don't see Adams parent as the son of earth. It is son of God.

mmksparbud · Aug 7, 2017

jhwatts said:
There are two Adams, one made from the dust if the earth(completely earthly) and the other in the likeness of God (and of God).

Better yet, look at Luke 3 and the linage of Christ. You don't see Adams parent as the son of earth. It is son of God.

There is only one Adam
om_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

ubicaritas · Aug 7, 2017

Are you aware of the documentary source hypothesis? Genesis is a redacted collection of often parallel traditions, that is what most biblical scholars accept.

mmksparbud · Aug 7, 2017

ubicaritas said:
Are you aware of the documentary source hypothesis? Genesis is a redacted collection of often parallel traditions, that is what most biblical scholars accept.

I give didly squat for what most scholars believe!! My info comes from the bible, with as close to the original language as possible. Of, course that does entail some scholarship, it must be for me---in agreement with the whole of the bible. "Tradition" carries very little weight.

jhwatts · Aug 7, 2017

mmksparbud said:
There is only one Adam
om_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The above scripture points towards the first Adam (The Adam of the “generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created”) and not the second. The application of these scriptures still apply.

Waggles · Aug 7, 2017

Devin P said:
They are biblically holy numbers that are (throughout scripture) consistently used to represent holy things.

Yes. This is referred to as Bible Numerics.
Read Ivan Panin, Professor of Mathematics at Harvard University, and
John Bullinger "Number In Scripture"

Bible Numerics as a proper mathematical analysis of the original scriptures has been around for
over 100 years. In the meantime no atheist nor unbeliever has claimed the wager prize set by
Ivan Panin in 1902(?) to disprove the validity of Bible Numerics.

mmksparbud · Aug 7, 2017

jhwatts said:
The above scripture points towards the first Adam and not the second. The application of these scripture all still apply.

1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

ubicaritas · Aug 7, 2017

mmksparbud said:
I give didly squat for what most scholars believe!! My info comes from the bible, with as close to the original language as possible. Of, course that does entail some scholarship, it must be for me---in agreement with the whole of the bible. "Tradition" carries very little weight.

There are more parsimonious explanations that to try to find esoteric meaning in what amounts to different traditions that were collated and redacted into one book during the Babylonian exile.

jhwatts · Aug 7, 2017

mmksparbud said:
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

Yes. The second Adam is the one made in the likeness of God. That would be the Adam of the generations of Genesis 5.1.

mmksparbud · Aug 7, 2017

jhwatts said:
Yes. The second Adam is the one made in the likeness of God. That would be the Adam of the generations of Genesis 5.1.

The Lord from heaven does in no way refer to a man. It is in reference to Christ. He is the only man that came from heaven---no Adam came from heaven except the 2nd Adam which is Jesus Christ. Jesus can also trace His family line to Adam because of His humanity that He got from Mary---He was fully human and fully divine. Adam was made in the image of God from the start---the word Adam merely means human. The name Adam first appears in Gen 2:19 in the KJV:

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

However, in Hebrew it reads:

Genesis 2:19
and Yhwh the Elohiym molded from the ground all the living ones of the field, and all the flyers of the skies, and he brought to the human to see what he will call out to him and all the living beings which the human will call out to him, that is his title,

Genesis 1:26
and Elohiym said, we will make a human in our image, like our likeness, and he will rule in the fish of the sea and in the flyers of the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all the treaders treading upon the land,
Mechanical Translation

There is only one Adam. But you are certainly free to believe whatever you want.

Aman777 · Aug 8, 2017

jhwatts said:
It sounds crazy but there are two physical creations. I've spent a lot of time studying this and have written a book that is ready to be published. What I'm going to show on this forum is only a small piece of a bigger picture. I'm really looking for peoples perspective and wanting peoples thoughts on how it impacts Christ purpose for mankind.

I will begin by asking that people interested first read Genesis 10:31 and then read Genesis 11:1 and ask yourself what is wrong with this picture? In short, the end of Genesis 10 has people on earth with different languages while the beginning of Genesis 11 shows them all having the same language.

The reason that this is the case is because they are out of chronological order. Most scholars will tell you not all events are ordered in chronological order in the Bible and many of the books themselves are out of chronological order.

The reason for me showing this is to demonstrate that chronological order is not always the case in the book of Genesis.

Now the reader should now go to Genesis 1:1 and and read then skip to Genesis 2:4 and read. The reader should notice the language in 2:4 and realize that the story and the chronology of “generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created” begins now. This chronology begins in 2:4 and goes to the end of Genesis 4.

Also realize that the chronology of the “generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created” took place before Genesis 1:2. or more specifically Genesis 1:1.

The reader should now read Genesis 5:1. This now begins the chronology of the “day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him” or more clearly the generations of Adam that are in that day.

If we now travel back to Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 1:27 we see that the chronology of events described in Genesis 5 corresponds to this description of events. This collection of events transpires from Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3.

Also the reader should notice that the Adam of “day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him” was instructed to replenish the earth Genesis 1:28. This is the same thing God told Noah Genesis 9:1. The Adam of the “generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created” was destroyed by the deep in Genesis 1:2. Yes I am claiming a second world flood.

This also explains the generational differences between those described in Genesis 4 and those in Genesis 5. An example is that Enoch is second from Adam in “generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created” and sixth from Adam in the generations of the “day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him”

These difference are because these are two totally different events.

There is a time difference between both collections of generational chronologies.

Also note a day is not 24 hours. This can be seen from Genesis 5. The verse appears to mean all of the generations that occurred took place in the “day God created man, in the likeness of God made him”. All these generation took place over many years not a single day.

Thoughts?

Amen. Genesis chapter one is the entire HISTORY of God's 6 Days or Ages of Creation, including events which are future to our time, which will not happen until Jesus returns at the end of the present 6th Day. Genesis 1:28-31 is prophecy.

The first three verses of Genesis two show a future Day which has NO evening and NO end. It's the seventh Day which is Eternity. This means that the first 34 verses of Genesis is an OUTLINE of ALL of rest of the Bible. Beginning at Gen 2:4 to the end of Revelation, the details of God's Seven Day Creation are told.

You have already discovered a Pearl of Great Price for this opens up the mysteries of the Bible. Here's an example.

Adam was "formed" by Lord God on the 3rd Day. Gen. 2:4-7
Adam was "created" by God on the 6th Day. Gen 1:27 and Gen 5:1-2

Adam was formed physically, like all men, on the 3rd Day BUT was not created in God's Image or in Christ Spiritually, by God the Trinity, until the 6th Day. Gen 1:27 AND Gen 5:1-2. Since God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image or Spiritually in Christ, we remain at Genesis 1:27 and we will not advance to the prophecy of Genesis 1:28-31 until AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon. Amen?

jhwatts · Aug 8, 2017

Aman777 said:
Genesis chapter one is the entire HISTORY of God's 6 Days or Ages of Creation

Not exactly. As I said earlier, (Genesis 1:1) (during the "generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created") is a long period time in earths past. Eden existed then and was destroyed by the deep in (Genesis 1:2). The deep was placed on the earth during Eden's existence and was the result of Lucifer's fall. See Ezekiel 31:15.

Notice also that there existed nations with many beings in Eden(Ezekiel 31:16).

Notice during the creation of "generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created" Adam was restricted from eating of the tree of life (Genesis 3:3) and no restrictions on eating of any tree (Genesis 1:29) were place on the new Adam of the generations that are "in the likeness of God made he him". This is because the new Adam was not in Eden.

Aman777 · Aug 9, 2017

jhwatts said:
Not exactly. As I said earlier, (Genesis 1:1) (during the "generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created") is a long period time in earths past.

Amen, BUT the prophecy of Genesis 1:28-31 was NOT in the past. The end of the present 6th Day/Age, in the creation of the perfect 3rd Heaven, is FUTURE. Each of God's Days is some 4.5 Billion years in man's time.

mmksparbud · Aug 9, 2017

jhwatts said:
is a long period time in earths past. Eden existed then and was destroyed by the deep in (Genesis 1:2).

Read post #16

jhwatts · Aug 9, 2017

I read 16. I don't necessarily assume that to be the case. Regardless, I still don't have to assume Genesis 1:1 is a part of the first day.

jhwatts · Aug 9, 2017

jhwatts said:
There are two Adams, one made from the dust if the earth(completely earthly) and the other in the likeness of God (and of God).

Better yet, look at Luke 3 and the linage of Christ. You don't see Adams parent as the son of earth. It is son of God.

mmksparbud said:
There is only one Adam
om_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Rom_5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

I have been studying the scripture in Romans and after careful examination noticed something interesting in

Romans 5:14 (KJV) 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Who are the ones that had not "sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression"?

They are those of the generations of “in the likeness of God made he him”.

Notice the word, "similitude," means, "that which is made like something, a resemblance" (W.E. Vine, Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words).

Notice that Adam is described, Christ is the one to come, but who is the figure of him to come. He was obviously similar to Adam.

It is the Adam (the second Adam) of the generations of “in the likeness of God made he him”.

mmksparbud · Aug 9, 2017

jhwatts said:
I have been studying the scripture in Romans and after careful examination noticed something interesting in

Romans 5:14 (KJV) 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Who are the ones that had not "sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression"?

They are those of the generations of “in the likeness of God made he him”.

Notice the word, "similitude," means, "that which is made like something, a resemblance" (W.E. Vine, Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words).

Notice that Adam is described, Christ is the one to come, but who is the figure of him to come. He was obviously similar to Adam.

It is the Adam (the second Adam) of the generations of “in the likeness of God made he him”.

I see---so it is not what the scriptures are actually saying, esp. in the original language that is important to you. OK.

jhwatts · Aug 9, 2017

mmksparbud said:
I see---so it is not what the scriptures are actually saying, esp. in the original language that is important to you. OK.

It is important, but if it was that simple there wouldn't be so many different translations available.

I'm also not convinced your perceived meaning of yome is true in all cases. Please see below.

Strongs:H03177
3117 yowm yome
from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm
hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one
sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by
an associated term), (often used adverb):--age, + always, +
chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to)
day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, +
(for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as
(... live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually,
presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space,
then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble,
weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole
(+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger.

mmksparbud · Aug 9, 2017

jhwatts said:
It is important, but if it was that simple there wouldn't be so many different translations available.

I'm also not convinced your perceived meaning of yome is true in all cases. Please see below.

Strongs:H03177
3117 yowm yome
from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm
hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one
sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by
an associated term), (often used adverb):--age, + always, +
chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to)
day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, +
(for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as
(... live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually,
presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space,
then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble,
weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole
(+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger.

Thanks, but I prefer to get my meanings from the Hebrew, I simply feel it is more accurate.
יוֹם

yom
בְּיוֹם

bê'yom

The word for day when God was creating the earth is written differently then the word for day when God says "in the day you eat it you will die." The 2nd use of the word is a longer time than the 1st use of it which is evening and morning. The longer time meaning in the 2nd use of it, fits more accurately for Adam did not die that day.
DAY

jhwatts · Aug 9, 2017

Again, I don't agree and it doesn't matter. The day argument is immaterial to my point here. My point here is that Genesis 1:1 is not necessarily part of the same period of time as Genesis 1:2 - 2:3 . It doesn't matter if the word day here means 24 hours or not.

There are Two Different Creation Accounts

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