There are some standing here who will not taste death-

[mkgal1]

You already had 2000 years, how much more time do you need?

I'm not 2000 years old.....but your idea of "shortly" and "soon" (as well as all others that believe in this sort of timeline) is distorted and nonsensical, IMO.

The apostles told us His return was not in their lifetime during 70AD, but 2000 years into the future then expect His return. They knew when He would return and lived in the first century, however you're alive today and don't know after 2000 years, and you still need another 2000 more to figure it out?

Really now? Where have you come across this idea in the Bible?

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Just what was Jesus talking about in Matthew 16 when He said there were people there that would not taste death "until they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.”

27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done.

28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

Was He talking about 70 ad when the temple was tore down and Jerusalem was scattered to the world?

It is simply post Resurrection.

 

[BABerean2]

"All" was not the theme of your original argument. Originally you claimed the resurrection in Matthew 25 and John 5 will not make anyone "mortal."

BABereans2 writes,

(No mortals are left after this judgment.)



But Matthew 27 proved you wrong as the resurrection at the cross brought many back to life as mortals.

Matthew 27:50-53 New Living Translation (NLT)
50 Then Jesus shouted out again, and he released his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, 52 and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead. 53 They left the cemetery after Jesus’ resurrection, went into the holy city of Jerusalem, and appeared to many people.



Did Martha also not see her brother Lazarus become mortal again after his resurrection?


John 11:23-44 New Living Translation (NLT)
23 Jesus told her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 “Yes,” Martha said, “he will rise when everyone else rises, at the last day.”


(And when is the last day Martha expects her brother to rise with everyone else? >>>>> Matthew 27:45-54!)


25 Jesus told her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying. 26 Everyone who lives in me and believes in me will never ever die. Do you believe this, Martha?”
27 “Yes, Lord,” she told him. “I have always believed you are the Messiah, the Son of God, the one who has come into the world from God.” 28 Then she returned to Mary. She called Mary aside from the mourners and told her, “The Teacher is here and wants to see you.” 29 So Mary immediately went to him.
30 Jesus had stayed outside the village, at the place where Martha met him.31 When the people who were at the house consoling Mary saw her leave so hastily, they assumed she was going to Lazarus’s grave to weep. So they followed her there. 32 When Mary arrived and saw Jesus, she fell at his feet and said, “Lord, if only you had been here, my brother would not have died.”
33 When Jesus saw her weeping and saw the other people wailing with her, a deep anger welled up within him, and he was deeply troubled. 34 “Where have you put him?” he asked them.
They told him, “Lord, come and see.” 35 Then Jesus wept. 36 The people who were standing nearby said, “See how much he loved him!” 37 But some said, “This man healed a blind man. Couldn’t he have kept Lazarus from dying?”
38 Jesus was still angry as he arrived at the tomb, a cave with a stone rolled across its entrance. 39 “Roll the stone aside,” Jesus told them. But Martha, the dead man’s sister, protested, “Lord, he has been dead for four days. The smell will be terrible.”
40 Jesus responded, “Didn’t I tell you that you would see God’s glory if you believe?” 41 So they rolled the stone aside. Then Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “Father, thank you for hearing me. 42 You always hear me, but I said it out loud for the sake of all these people standing here, so that they will believe you sent me.” 43 Then Jesus shouted, “Lazarus, come out!” 44 And the dead man came out, his hands and feet bound in graveclothes, his face wrapped in a headcloth. Jesus told them, “Unwrap him and let him go!”


The only way to prolong your argument is by changing mortal to all.

Can you explain how you are changing the wicked in John 5:27-30 into "godly men and women"?

.

 

[ToServe]

Yes we can if one is a shadow and a type of the other. What happened with the Hebrew nation in 70AD will happen with the whole world at the end of this age. One is a shadow and a type of the other.

The Day of the Lord is the time of the separation of the Tares from amongst the Wheat from within the Body of Christ. These are the many sons of perdition the people (Anthropos) of sin who had the truth but according to 2 Thessalonians 2 fell away from the truth and served a lie. These are the ones who stand in the Temple of God (Holy Spirit Temple) claiming to be for Christ yet have pleasure in unrighteousness.

The faithful and wicked servants parable in Matthew 24:36-51 is not pointing to the sacked and without a legitimate temple pharisaical administration but is for the Church, solely concerning the Wheat and Tares within the Church. The fullness of the Gentiles is the time where the end of the Harvest draws near at the gleaning and the saying of Christ comes into play. Christ's saying is

I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8)

Since historical evidence given to us who have the better hindsight highlights that the faith in Christ in fact exponentially increased decades, then later centuries after the turmoil of 70AD wars, leading us to Christianity reaching the hearts and minds of all nations, cultures, and peoples of the world when the fullness of these gentiles is clearly seen to be coming into fullness. Around 68AD to 75AD the Gospel was not receptive whilst people were in a state of war, famine and threat of annihilation making preaching the gospel not conducive and so when John was told to preach yet again from the little sweet book the Gospel, this would be when he instructed the head Apostles of the seven churches in Asia Minor to restart the commission as it was safe and timely to do so. The context of situation points to the 7 letters sent to the 7 Apostles being sent decades after the fact of the events of 68-75AD. The Letters are believed to have been sent between 90-110AD, almost 2-3 decades after factional fighting has all but died out and some normality was on the horizon making it conducive to start preaching the Gospel yet again.

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Revelation 10:1)

Luke 18:8 could not be applied to 70AD, neither can it be applied to Revelation 10:1 to restart the commission that was disrupted by the events of 68-75AD (7-year war). Luke 18:8 could not be applied to the historical fact of Christianity increasing and not reducing and the fact that the Gospel continued to be spread increasing the faith amongst the Gentile nations abroad and throughout centuries after the instructed letters of Revelation 10:1.

So when Christ returns it would have been when the Gentiles have come to full numbers of all that God wanted to register in his Book of Life and then the disciples would be made of all nations and cultures spanning generations according to the sovereign Lord's liking, then the Day of the Lord will come to judge the members of his Body within the Falling Away context. At this time and just like how Judas Iscariot fell away from the faith as the son of perdition, many of the Body of Christ who had the truth will fall away and serve a lie and therefore be condemned as the growing list of Tares and then the saying of Luke 18:8 will come into play.

Historicity does not allow us to declare 70AD or even the 1st Century as the Day of the Lord and this Full Preterist teaching is a sure way to confuse and to confound people to think that the resurrection of the dead happened within the 1st Century when the fullness of the Gentiles had not yet come and the Book of Life had not yet registered those who were yet to be born to be registered in the first place through the commission of the Church.

Prophesy in Zechariah supports the 2 Thessalonians 2 context of the Falling Away from the faith by the many sons of perdition who are jotted out of the Book of Life as the many Tares who had pleasure in unrighteousness, especially after they had originally received the knowledge of the truth, thereby trampling the Son of God underfoot and making the Blood of his Covenant to no avail for them and insulting the Spirit of Grace in the process (Hebrews 10:29).

A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem (Church), when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem (Church) to fight against it; the city (spiritual) will be captured (infiltrated), the houses (congregation/assemblies) ransacked, and the women (denominations) raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

The half that goes into exile are those Tares within the Body of Christ who have fallen away from the faith (hence they are taken) and so they are jotted out of the Book of Life because they are deemed to have had pleasure in unrighteousness. According to Apostle Paul (2 Thessalonians 2:12) they are forever condemned to outer darkness as the wicked servants (sons of perdition/peoples of sin) on a day and hour they know not as Jesus taught in a parable in Matthew 24:36-51, hence they are taken from the Holy City and jotted out from the Book of Life just like Judas Iscariot was.

So Luke 18:8 is like the same parable in Matthew 24:37 highlighting that the faith will be like the Days of Noah where only a few faithful were saved and the rest were condemned.

 

[joshua 1 9]

The Day of the Lord is the time of the separation of the Tares from amongst the Wheat from within the Body of Christ. These are the many sons of perdition the people (Anthropos) of sin who had the truth but according to 2 Thessalonians 2 fell away from the truth and served a lie. These are the ones who stand in the Temple of God (Holy Spirit Temple) claiming to be for Christ yet have pleasure in unrighteousness.

The faithful and wicked servants parable in Matthew 24:36-51 is not pointing to the sacked and without a legitimate temple pharisaical administration but is for the Church, solely concerning the Wheat and Tares within the Church. The fullness of the Gentiles is the time where the end of the Harvest draws near at the gleaning and the saying of Christ comes into play. Christ's saying is

I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8)

Since historical evidence given to us who have the better hindsight highlights that the faith in Christ in fact exponentially increased decades, then later centuries after the turmoil of 70AD wars, leading us to Christianity reaching the hearts and minds of all nations, cultures, and peoples of the world when the fullness of these gentiles is clearly seen to be coming into fullness. Around 68AD to 75AD the Gospel was not receptive whilst people were in a state of war, famine and threat of annihilation making preaching the gospel not conducive and so when John was told to preach yet again from the little sweet book the Gospel, this would be when he instructed the head Apostles of the seven churches in Asia Minor to restart the commission as it was safe and timely to do so. The context of situation points to the 7 letters sent to the 7 Apostles being sent decades after the fact of the events of 68-75AD. The Letters are believed to have been sent between 90-110AD, almost 2-3 decades after factional fighting has all but died out and some normality was on the horizon making it conducive to start preaching the Gospel yet again.

And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. (Revelation 10:1)

Luke 18:8 could not be applied to 70AD, neither can it be applied to Revelation 10:1 to restart the commission that was disrupted by the events of 68-75AD (7-year war). Luke 18:8 could not be applied to the historical fact of Christianity increasing and not reducing and the fact that the Gospel continued to be spread increasing the faith amongst the Gentile nations abroad and throughout centuries after the instructed letters of Revelation 10:1.

So when Christ returns it would have been when the Gentiles have come to full numbers of all that God wanted to register in his Book of Life and then the disciples would be made of all nations and cultures spanning generations according to the sovereign Lord's liking, then the Day of the Lord will come to judge the members of his Body within the Falling Away context. At this time and just like how Judas Iscariot fell away from the faith as the son of perdition, many of the Body of Christ who had the truth will fall away and serve a lie and therefore be condemned as the growing list of Tares and then the saying of Luke 18:8 will come into play.

Historicity does not allow us to declare 70AD or even the 1st Century as the Day of the Lord and this Full Preterist teaching is a sure way to confuse and to confound people to think that the resurrection of the dead happened within the 1st Century when the fullness of the Gentiles had not yet come and the Book of Life had not yet registered those who were yet to be born to be registered in the first place through the commission of the Church.

Prophesy in Zechariah supports the 2 Thessalonians 2 context of the Falling Away from the faith by the many sons of perdition who are jotted out of the Book of Life as the many Tares who had pleasure in unrighteousness, especially after they had originally received the knowledge of the truth, thereby trampling the Son of God underfoot and making the Blood of his Covenant to no avail for them and insulting the Spirit of Grace in the process (Hebrews 10:29).

A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem (Church), when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem (Church) to fight against it; the city (spiritual) will be captured (infiltrated), the houses (congregation/assemblies) ransacked, and the women (denominations) raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city.

The half that goes into exile are those Tares within the Body of Christ who have fallen away from the faith (hence they are taken) and so they are jotted out of the Book of Life because they are deemed to have had pleasure in unrighteousness. According to Apostle Paul (2 Thessalonians 2:12) they are forever condemned to outer darkness as the wicked servants (sons of perdition/peoples of sin) on a day and hour they know not as Jesus taught in a parable in Matthew 24:36-51, hence they are taken from the Holy City and jotted out from the Book of Life just like Judas Iscariot was.

So Luke 18:8 is like the same parable in Matthew 24:37 highlighting that the faith will be like the Days of Noah where only a few faithful were saved and the rest were condemned.

It is difficult to see the forest for the trees. There are so many end time prophecy all over the Bible it is difficult to come up with a coherent prediction of exactly what is going to happen. As a dispensationalist I believe the church age is 2,000 years and then we have the Kingdom Age or the 1,000 year reign of Christ. I do not know exactly what is going to happen as we go from one age to the next. The church I attended would teach that at the end of the church age there will be a rapture when the church will be caught up in the air to be with Jesus. Then the Church is in Heaven while the world goes through 7 years of tribulation. Then Jesus returns to the earth with His Church and we rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years.

 

[ToServe]

It is difficult to see the forest for the trees. There are so many end time prophecy all over the Bible it is difficult to come up with a coherent prediction of exactly what is going to happen. As a dispensationalist I believe the church age is 2,000 years and then we have the Kingdom Age or the 1,000 year reign of Christ. I do not know exactly what is going to happen as we go from one age to the next. The church I attended would teach that at the end of the church age there will be a rapture when the church will be caught up in the air to be with Jesus. Then the Church is in Heaven while the world goes through 7 years of tribulation. Then Jesus returns to the earth with His Church and we rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years.

When Jesus comes the books will be opened and every mortal human would have either biologically died or translated in their resurrection bodies. The Final Judgement means that Satan will be no more as he will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.
The confusion in dispensationalist theories is that Satan's imprisonment is at the same time as Christ's millenium reign.
The separation of the Tares from amongst the Wheat is within the Body of Christ and Christ will return to Judge the Living and the Dead, there is no Kingdom millenium when other humans remain unjudged or humans continue to be born with the sinful nature of Adam. When Christ returns Paul says he will destroy death spiritual and biological and then become subject of the Father when he hands over the Kingdom of Daniel 2:44 before the millenium commences and at this point God is all in all as the books are opened and all who were to be written in the book of life are now fully accounted for.

 

[Seville90210]

Can you explain how you are changing the wicked in John 5:27-30 into "godly men and women"?

Nope, because that's not what John 5:27-30 is telling us.

 

[Seville90210]

Really now? Where have you come across this idea in the Bible?

Did you bother to read the scriptures I gave you?

2 Peter 3:1-8 King James Version (KJV)
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


Hosea 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

I have no idea how you came up with that.

But....30 A.D. + 40 years = 70 A.D.

You can't use 30AD unless you want to eliminate the time of Jesus' ministry on earth those 3.5 years.

But to answer your question, 1948 + 40 years = 1988

We're referring to "spiritual death".

And as I said, spiritual death does not mean pride. Ever thought that maybe your definition of spiritual death could be the one that's wrong?

There's a step prior to Adam and Eve *eating* the forbidden fruit. Eve was deceived....but Adam knowingly went against God's instruction. What else would YOU call it when a person believes they know better than God (or trust their own judgment more than God's instruction)?

Genesis 3 ~ But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.​

I disagree with your theory on the definition of death as well as your argument about Eve being the only one deceived while Adam taking a stance against God's command.

In Eve's situation, she was deceived by the serpent. She believed what was being told to her by a stranger placing her trust upon someone she knows nothing about, having no relationship with whatsoever against God's command.

Now in Adam's situation, he was deceived by Eve's appearance, his wife whom he knows and trust. She goes to her husband and tells him she ate the fruit and gives it to him. Adam looks at his wife and see she's not dead, she looks perfectly fine. Seeing is believing, she was still alive. This outcome went against what he thought would happen after eating the fruit. Makes it harder to resist when it's your own spouse trying to convince you to do something compared to a stranger when the serpent deceived Eve.

And they both knew they weren't suppose to eat the fruit, not just Adam. Nevertheless, they were both wrong.

Genesis 3:2-3 King James Version (KJV)
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

 

[BABerean2]

Nope, because that's not what John 5:27-30 is telling us.

"Seville90210 said: ↑

Not when you realize John 5:27-30 was already fulfilled at the cross when Jesus resurrected the old testament saints appearing to many as mortals in Jerusalem on the day He died as written in Matthew 27:45-54."


Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[Seville90210]

"Seville90210 said: ↑

Not when you realize John 5:27-30 was already fulfilled at the cross when Jesus resurrected the old testament saints appearing to many as mortals in Jerusalem on the day He died as written in Matthew 27:45-54."

Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

BAB, how may times do you have to read John 5:27-30 till you realize those verses were about a resurrection, nothing to do with the changing of the wicked into godly men and women.

Go find verses on sanctification if you want scriptures that parallels your "new" argument.

 

[mkgal1]

Did you bother to read the scriptures I gave you?

I didn't recognize that you were using those passages as support of your idea that the "apostles told us His return was not in their lifetime during 70AD, but 2000 years into the future then expect His return". That seems like a Frankensteined theology there (to me). You seem to be starting with a presumption, and then searching for proof texts.

First of all.....you seem to be dismissing all the other Scripture written by the very same apostle (Peter) that said:

• In a little while, 1 Peter 1:6-7
• Ready (hetoimos) to judge the living and the dead, 1 Peter 4:5
• The end of all things has drawn near, 1 Peter 4:7
• The time has come for the judgment to begin, 1 Peter 4:17
• The glory was about to be revealed, 1 Peter 5:1

There are actually more references when the term last days is understood, 1Peter 1:5, coupled with the work of Holy Spirit and the generation in which Peter lived, 1:10-12. Since Peter has referred his readers to his first epistles, the words of the Lord and the Apostles, he reminded them of what he’d already taught on the matter. Jesus’ coming was soon to occur. Therefore the thousand years statement, is about nearness, reinforcing what Peter previously taught. This harmonizes with the words of Christ and the Apostles, Matt. 10:23; 16:27-28; 24:34; Lk. 21:20-22. Acts 24:14-15; Rom. 13:11-12; 1 Cor. 7:31; 15:51-52; 2 Cor. 6:1-2; Phil. 4:5; Jas. 5:7-8; 1 Jn. 2:18-19; Rev. 1:1-3; 22:6, 10, 12.

You seem to be siding with the "scoffers" in v. 3 ....denying His presence:

2nd Peter 3:3-6 ~ 3 First of all you must understand this, that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts and saying, ‘Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!’ They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water, through which the world of that time was deluged with water and perished.​

Quoting William Bell:

"Moses introduces the topic of the thousand years with a reference to judgment. “You turn man to destruction, and say, ‘Return, O children of men.” Observe how verse four is explanatory of verse three. For a thousand years in Your sigh are like yesterday when it is past, and like a watch in the night.” His point is, yesterday passed quickly. The second comparison was a “watch in the night”. That means not even a full night but only a portion of it. It was a watch. The Jews divided the night into three four-hour watches. A single watch was a very short time. The Roman watch by comparison was a three hour watch, an even shorter period. Note that all of Moses’ examples are short periods of time:

• Yesterday when it is past, v. 4a
• A watch in the night, v. 4b
• The swiftness of a flood, 5a
• Like a sleep (in the night), 5b
• Like grass which grows up in the morning, 5c-6a
• Like (that same grass) which is mowed down and withers in the evening, 6b

Note how Moses returns to his theme of judgment in discussing the thousand years in v.7, identifying his own generation. “For we have been consumed by Your anger, and by Your wrath we are terrified. You have set our iniquities before You, our secret sins in the light of your countenance. For all our days have passed away in Your wrath.” We finish our years like a sigh. The days of our lives are seventy years; and if by reason of strength they are eighty years Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, and we fly away.” Who know the power of Your anger? For as the fear of You, so is Your wrath.”

The reader will note that verses 7 and 11, form an inclusio of God’s judgment and wrath upon Israel. We will address this further in part two. For the moment, note that all of Israel’s days were consumed in wrath, their life was short and “soon” cut off. Not one single reference in the context indicated that the thousand years was of a millennia or more in duration. At the very longest, 70 years is mentioned with 80 years being the exception."
​

The Hosea passage you gave, I believe, is referring to His resurrection (the three days He was buried). Certainly you don't believe those three days were 3,000 years?

 

[mkgal1]

Also....consider this: there ARE passages that refer to His coming NOT being near...like:

In Numbers 24:17-18 Balaam the prophet made a prediction of Christ's coming: "I see him but not now, I behold him but not near." Notice he said Christ's coming was NOT NEAR; IT WAS NOT AT HAND. Why did he say this? Because Christ's coming was over 1400 years away, and 1400 years really is a long time! Here is a concrete example where God referred to a long time as just that.

In Daniel 10-12 is a vision encompassing a period of time from 536 BC to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD; about 600 years. Two times in this text Daniel was told "the appointed time is long" and "the vision refers to many days to come" (10:1,14). Remember, this vision was relayed to Daniel from God. While God is not bound by time, he was communicating to man who is bound to time. God called this 600 year period of time "long;" he said it involved "many days." God can most assuredly tell time and read a calendar!

Daniel contains another important example of how God used time words. Chapter 8 contains a prophecy that extends from 530 BC to about 165-164 BC and the death of Antiochus Epiphanes. The time covered is about 365 years. How did God express the prophecy? Did he say it was at hand? Did he say SOME of it was at hand while some of it was for a long time off? No! God viewed the prophecy as a whole. He said the vision "refers to many days in the future" (8:26). Here is a prophecy that covers 365 years and God called it "a long time." Friends, if God called 365 years a long time, how can man say that time, when God is speaking to man, means nothing?

In Jeremiah 29:10 Jehovah told his prophet the Babylonian captivity would last for seventy years. In verse 28 the people complained that Jeremiah had told them "The exile will be long...." Here is an example of a prophet specifying a period of time, seventy years, and the people said the prophet, and remember the prophet was inspired of God, said the captivity would be "long." Why was seventy years called a long time by Jeremiah? Because to man seventy years IS A LONG TIME! Thus, God used time words as man would normally understand them. God can tell time when speaking to man! ~ quote from Don Preston

​

 

[mkgal1]

You can't use 30AD unless you want to eliminate the time of Jesus' ministry on earth those 3.5 years.

I used 30 A.D. as Jesus said those things (recorded in Matthew 24) later in His ministry - not at the beginning.

 

[parousia70]

But I don't conclude it excludes any of those Thessalonians at the time. You know why I don't? Obviously there is a resurrection of the righteous saints when Christ returns, thus I expect these to also be among those that rise in the resurrection of the just.

The Thessalonians being addressed at the time will be among the following when Christ returns, what I have underlined below.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

So your claim is that they are still suffering today at the hands of their persecutors?

 

[ToServe]

27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

These are two events that point from the Cross when the Son of Man went into the Kingdom of Daniel 2:44 before the Ancient of Days at his ascension to reign through his Cross. Paul says that Jesus must continue to reign until he defeats the final enemy death spiritual and death biological.

The other event in his return when he will judge the living and the dead at the Final Judgement of the dead when the books are opened and everyone would have tasted 1st death that is biological and or was translated into their resurrection body at Christ's brilliant appearing.

70AD does not fit anywhere in those two events.

 

[joshua 1 9]

70AD does not fit anywhere in those two events.

70ad was a shadow and a type and this had to do with the old covenant. Everything God die with "Israel" He is not doing in and through the Church.

 

[Seville90210]

I didn't recognize that you were using those passages as support of your idea that the "apostles told us His return was not in their lifetime during 70AD, but 2000 years into the future then expect His return". That seems like a Frankensteined theology there (to me). You seem to be starting with a presumption, and then searching for proof texts.

Do you know why you don't understand 2 Peter 3:1-8, it's because it's hidden from you. Other people on this forum can understand 2 Peter 3:1-8 to mean 1 day is a 1000 years to God.

Now wanna know why all this sounds like Frankenstein's theory to you? Well just read the scripture below.

1 Corinthians 1:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?​

If I were you, I would focus more on trying to understand the bible, better yet, try and understand God. Try Matthew 6:33 for starters.

Soon as Jesus arrives, it's checkmate! Time is not on your side.

First of all.....you seem to be dismissing all the other Scripture written by the very same apostle (Peter) that said:

• In a little while, 1 Peter 1:6-7

Read it carefully. 1 Peter 1 has nothing to do with end time prophecy. The "little while" in verse 6 is NOT telling you the second coming is in a little while.

As a disciple of Christ, a true follower, we're to endure trials and tribulations (not Daniel's 70th week) in our lives as a test of our faith. Not every Christians endure trials and tribulations, be glad when your time comes. The mysteries are hidden from you and you don't understand all these things yet because you haven't been tested yet and is currently living the easy life. Be glad when it comes, that's when God has finally chosen you for a relationship.

1 Peter 1:3-7 New Living Translation (NLT)
3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, 4 and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay. 5 And through your faith, God is protecting you by his power until you receive this salvation, which is ready to be revealed on the last day for all to see.

6 So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you must endure many trials for a little while. 7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.​

​

The Hosea passage you gave, I believe, is referring to His resurrection (the three days He was buried). Certainly you don't believe those three days were 3,000 years?

I throw out scriptures to you as evidence and they go right over your head. Every bible verses I've written to you since day one I've read and known for many many years, not something I just dug up having never seen before.

Hosea 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.​

One day in the bible sometimes mean 1000 years.

I can see you're very novice when it comes to prophecy, particularly with biblical jargon and idiom. You don't seem to understand the biblical terminologies used in the bible, but this is one way how God does things to hide the mysteries in the bible, and reveals His mysteries only to those He wishes through the holy spirit. Now just because you don't understand biblical lingo, it doesn't mean everyone doesn't understand either.

Now I think you would know what the term "born again" means by now, but to Nicodemus, the first time he heard it, he was completely baffled, refused to believe what Jesus was telling him and thought he had to go back into his mother's womb.

John 3:1-12 New Living Translation (NLT)
1 There was a man named Nicodemus, a Jewish religious leader who was a Pharisee. 2 After dark one evening, he came to speak with Jesus. “Rabbi,” he said, “we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you.”
3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
4 “What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?”
5 Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. 7 So don’t be surprised when I say, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it wants. Just as you can hear the wind but can’t tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can’t explain how people are born of the Spirit.” 9 “How are these things possible?” Nicodemus asked.
10 Jesus replied, “You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don’t understand these things? 11 I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won’t believe our testimony. 12 But if you don’t believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things?​

Now all these times I've been specking to you, mostly carnal and you don't believe or understand the things I say to you, how can you believe or understand me if tell you spiritual things like the mysteries of God and of heaven?

1 Corinthians 3:1-3 New Living Translation (NLT)
1 Dear brothers and sisters, when I was with you I couldn’t talk to you as I would to spiritual people.I had to talk as though you belonged to this world or as though you were infants in Christ. 2 I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren’t ready for anything stronger. And you still aren’t ready, 3 for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world?
​

 

[Seville90210]

Also....consider this: there ARE passages that refer to His coming NOT being near...like:

Here let's do this again, probably the 5th time now. But that's fine, I know things are hidden from you but we'll keep doing this for others' benefit. Now I've told you Jesus deliberately speaks to those on the outside in parables: figurative language to hide the mysteries of God and of Heaven. He does not want them to be reveal to those who refuses to accept God's words.....every word, and not just those they want to accept.

Not all Christians are saved, many are just deceiving themselves. When Jesus arrives, it's checkmate! So do you wanna keep debating prophecy or would you rather learn about salvation?

Matthew 13:10-17 King James Version (KJV)
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


Matthew 11:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.


1 Corinthians 1:18-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?


John 16:25 New King James Version (NKJV)
25 “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father.

 

[joshua 1 9]

70AD, but 2000 years into the future then expect His return". That seems like a Frankensteined theology there (to me).

Have you ever been to Bible College. Our Bible college classes can be used as electives for the students at the state college. So everyone can take a few classes there. I took some teacher training classes that were very good. They did not tell us WHAT to teach so much as how to teach. First there are rules for Bible interpretation. You can do a google search and learn these rules. They are not carved in stone they vary a little but most people tend to agree on how we interpret the Bible. Also they teach about shadows and types. Again this is universal and everyone agrees on this. In fact the pastors with the 2 year degrees are the ones that are often the best at explaining the shadow and types in the Bible. This is the way the Holy Spirit works in them to help them with their sermons.

So you can do a google search, or go to YouTube and find a very good study on the rules for Bible interpretation or understanding how the Bible is a shadow and a type. These are very much like the parables. Also Jonathen Cahn has written a best selling book called: Paradigm. This is more of a Scientific word. Cahn shows us how the Bible is a Blueprint. As a carpenter I have made a pattern to use when we needed to make exact copies of something. It did take me three days to read this book. I did put the time and effort into this so I could learn how to explain to people what a Shadow and a Type is and how the Old Testament is a Type of the New Testament. Not everyone is going to understand. The Holy Spirit is our Teacher and our Guide and God decides who He wants to reveal the Mysteries of the Bible to.

Matthew 13 "10 Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?” 11 He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him

So we have Parables that Jesus uses. We have Shadow and Types. Cahn likes to use the word Paradign and also Harbingers. Then there are people that like to use the allegory style that is so popular in classic Christian books.

In the world they like to use archtypes. Walt Disney likes to make moves using fantisy and imagination in a productive way that children and their parents enjoy. Walt Disney use to say: "That’s the real trouble with the world. Too many people grow up." Jesus said something very much like this: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

I am sure even your Frankenstein movie is a story that people can relate to in some way. As you seem to think that the story has the ability to explain things.

 

[BABerean2]

As a disciple of Christ, a true follower, we're to endure trials and tribulations (not Daniel's 70th week) in our lives as a test of our faith.

Since the angel Gabriel did not mention a "gap" in the 70 weeks prophecy, the only way to see the 70th week of Daniel is in a time machine sent to return you to the first century.

You are also ignoring Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, which reveal a time period of about 7 years when the Gospel was taken "first" to Daniel's people before Paul began his ministry to the Gentiles.

.