The worst thing about Calvinism

[Hammster]

In my view God's wrath against sin is completely satisfied by Jesus' work on the cross....the penalty for all sin has been paid and it is finished. Yet, those who reject Christ remain under God's wrath as the scriptures plainly say, because they did not believe in His Son.

That's a contradiction. You can't remain under a wrath that's satisfied.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is not a dodge as I consider your presentation as a constructed false dilemma.

Your entry argument is based on a human perspective of what is just and good and loving.
Remember our ways are not His ways.

This is simply not true. People are without excuse about God's existence and His good ways. Otherwise God could not judge any of His creation. It would be like holding a Judgment for predatory animals like wolves or T-Rex's. Can you imagine it? God says to the T-Rex,

"Bad T-Rex! You ate those people! Depart from me into the Lake of Fire!" ​

By your belief in Calvinism, it is saying a similar thing. You believe men are depraved and they are unable to make a choice to choose God. So they are off the hook. Any judgment would be a joke or a farce. If there was no way for them to come to God in any way, then they cannot be held accountable anymore than a T-Rex or a wolf.

God reveals His standard of moral law not only within His Word but within the very nature of His creation itself (man).

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves." (Romans 2:14).

What law is it talking about here?

The moral law like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc. (i.e. the law of loving your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10). For the Gentiles could not obey any ceremonial law like the Sabbath, or circumcision by any instinct or natural way telling them to do that. This moral law (Which was only reinforced - not revealed) became popularized with the giving of the tablets of stone from Mt. Sinai and the writing of the Torah by Moses.

Those who work inquity and sin are clearly shown to know better and given over to their lusts and inquity. Romans 1 makes this evident.

You are not reading all of Romans 1 right then. It says God reveals from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." (Romans 1:18-19).

Yet, in the world of Calvinism they are not holding any truth in unrighteousness. Yet, this is what the above passage says (Which flies in the face of many verses that refutes Calvinism). One has to do clever gymnastic back flips or twists to undo passages like these that are very clear and plain to see when read without any Calvinistic bias.

Yes those who are clean already (verse 3) is important to note and for some reason this verse is habitually ignored in some interpretations.

Jesus did not mean John 15:3 (i.e. you are clean by the word which I spoken unto you) to be a one time seal a deal forever kind of thing. This is not saying that God just regenerated them whereby they will always do good. Nor is it teaching a version of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) that says you can break God's moral laws (like murder, hate, sexual immorality, steal, etc.) and still be in His good graces. Yes, I am aware of POTS (Perseverance of the Saints) and how it is different. Besides the "Regeneration" (that ignores man's free will choice) part, there is a lite version of OSAS that is almost identical to it (and it is false). It says you have to live holy for OSAS to be true.

Anyways, John 15:3 is not teaching any kind of regeneration here. Jesus is saying you are clean by obeying God's words. This is not a new teaching in Scripture.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

This is the Word by which they are made clean.

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word." (Psalms 119:9).

No doubt, you believe this is talking to the regenerated or enlightened man. But let's look at Scripture.

"For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Acts 28:27).

Here we see in this verse above that those people whose heart has waxed gross and whose ears are dull of hearing and whose eyes are closed, have a choice. LEST. LEST. LEST (UNLESS) they should see with their eyes and THEN be converted. It says THEY should see. It does not say that God makes them to see.
Also, Jesus desires Jerusalem to be saved. At the very least He desired to gather them as chicks underneath His wing as a hen. So whatever you believe that to mean, Jerusalem was not doing what Jesus (God) desired of them. They were going against God's will.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me." (Matthew 23:37) (NLT).

This should not be possible in the Calvinistic universe. We see Jesus desiring something of Jerusalem by the analogy of the hen and the chicks, but Jerusalem would not let them allow Jesus to do it. This is contrary to God's Soverign will under the Calvinistic world. This verse should not be in your Bible!

Actions do tell us a lot about people. Based on the above I conclude you would include "good" moral atheists in the equation?

I do not know of any atheist who are obeying God's moral laws today. Many of them are sexually immoral, liars, swear profanities, lust after the opposite sex outside of marriage (i.e. inappropriate content, or looking at the opposite sex at least in lust when they go out into public), etc.

Here is an animated video that you should check out.

Anyways, I gotta run. I will try and get to the rest of what you said at a later time.
May God bless you;
And may you please be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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[Hammster]

Video created by Calvinists.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Video created by Calvinists.

Must I claim that?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not at all. It is merely looking at a set of verses stitched together to prove a belief that is not true. There are many beliefs that are not true that can appear to do the same thing. But if morality or God's goodness is not in favor of that interpretation of those texts, then it is a wrong look at those verses.

Can you explain to me your understanding of eisegsis vs. exegesis? I think you missed my point.

According to Wikipedia, it says:

While exegesis is the process of drawing out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discoverable meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.​

Eisegesis is exactly what you are doing with the text with your belief in Calvinism. You did not one day read the Bible and come to the same exact conclusions by Calvinism on your own without reading the biased false views from John Calvin. You were influenced by what he had written instead of just letting the Bible speak to you plainly in what it says (while you pray to the Lord for the actual meaning - Jeremiah 33:3). Again, basic morality (that can be found in God's Word) condemns Calvinism. We know that it is loving and good to love our neighbor. What loving man of God would not want to save every person they can if they were in trouble or distress if he has the capacity to do so? This is where you turn God into the villain or the bad guy. While God can save everyone, He just chooses not to save them. If this is not the case, then you need to explain why God does not save certain individuals. This is where you and others here fall into dead silence whereby Calvinism crumbles and falls apart.

God is Good and Loving. He is also Judge and Lawgiver.
I thought I explained such in my last post.

God is also good and loving in His judgments and lawgiving. They are not two separate categories with love and goodness being in one category and judgment and lawgiving being in another category. You think the morality that I am talking about is not God's ways and is merely human understanding. I mentioned basic morality before and you threw me the card that said God's ways are not our ways. This is just not true. God is good and His ways are always good. Yes, there is sin and suffering in the world. But this is the result of man's doing. But a land can be healed if people pray, seek His face, and turn from their wicked ways.

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:1).

When God operates with man, He has to be good and loving. Yes, sometimes our sin can effect our lives because we live in a fallen world and many men still struggle with sin themselves, and this can lead to God using unique ways to bring man to Him, but that is not the same thing as God acting immoral Himself by saving some men and not saving others (When God has the power to save them all).

No. God would not be longsuffering that nobody should perish if they are elected to damnation. That verse does not belong in your Bible. It makes no sense with your beliefs.

You stand in judgment of me based on an internet discussion? Is "judge not" in your Bible. I was just pointing out the inconsistency of your approach.

Well, I know you did not invent Calvinism. You merely are latching onto that belief. My focus is not an attack on you, but the wrong belief. Also, as for the verse in Scripture you quote about "judge not": This is clearly not talking about how we cannot judge. When you read Matthew 7:1, you also have to read verses 2-5 to get the context (Matthew 7:2-5). It is talking about hypocritical judgment. Jesus says we can judge righteously (John 7:24). Paul says we are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather, reprove them (Ephesians 5:11). Also, Paul says that all Scripture is profitable for correction (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

As for your claim of my inconsistency within my approach: I do not see how you really did that. I can show you the context of the verses I provided before that talk about the free will of man if you like. Also, real world examples and morality does not exactly line with the belief of Calvinism, either. Jesus never sinned and He was loving, good, and longsuffering. Jesus made parables (real world examples) to illustrate spiritual truth. This really cannot be done with Calvinism.

Anyways, I will try and reply to the rest of what you wrote later.
May God's love and peace be upon you;
And may you please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Video created by Calvinists.

Yet, I use it against Calvinists because certain Calvinists will say that we cannot know God's good ways in regards to His morality sometimes (Like the saving of some and the damnation of others based on no real merit of the individual themselves).


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[Hammster]

Yet, I use it against Calvinists because certain Calvinists will say that we cannot know God's good ways in regards to His morality sometimes (Like the saving of some and the damnation of others based on no real merit of the individual themselves).


...

How was that used against Calvinism?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How was that used against Calvinism?

The dead silence we hear from Calvinists who cannot give an answer as to why God saves some people and damns others. If God has the power to save them all, then why doesn't He do so?


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[Bible Highlighter]

This does not work if God does something unrighteous like choosing to save people when He has the power to save them.

Now you stand in judgement of God. Do you have full knowledge of God's will and design? No, none of us do. Calvin admitted such as well.

You are gravely mistaken. I am not standing in judgement of God as He is presented in the Bible. For nowhere does the Bible say or imply that God has the power to save them all and yet He only chooses to save some of them. Again, how does this belief sound loving and good in a real world scenario? Did not Jesus give us real world examples (parables) to illustrate spiritual truth on how to be good and loving like helping the poor, the stranger, and praying for one's enemies, etc. Did not Jesus suffer greatly and die on the cross for us? Did not Jesus essentially say to the Father to not hold judgment against those who crucified Him? If God demonstrates this kind of love, and goodness, then surely we can see His love and goodness in His choice of saving people.

Why judge anyone if it was God who made them to be damned and or to be saved? It does not compute.

Perhaps we are getting somewhere. Can you will yourself to be saved?

Your not answering the question. How does it make sense to judge the wicked for something they had no control over (Especially if God had the power to save them)? That would be like a dog owner who kicks his dog across the room because he knows that this dog has an uncontrollable pooping problem. Instead of this dog owner treating the dog with medication or taking it to the vet, he punts the dog as if it is a football because the poor little guy cannot help but to release hot little tootsie rolls everywhere in his home uncontrollably.

As for your question: "Can you will yourself to be saved?"
My answer: This is a non sequitur. Nowhere am I advocating salvation of human effort alone. Nowhere did I ever suggest or imply such a belief to you. Salvation is in Jesus Christ and abiding in Him. "For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son, does not have life." (1 John 5:12). It is true, no man can come unto the Father unless he draws them (John 6:44), yet, the Bible also says that Christ draws all men unto Himself, too (John 12:32). The Bible also says, "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17). Not sure if you are catching what Revelation just said here. It says, "the bride says to the reader to "Come." This implies that they are not the bride yet (i.e. elected as the bride) when they are reading the call that says "Come" in Revelation 22:17. Also, Revelation 22:17 says we are being welcomed to drink of the water of life freely. It is an open invitation and not a closed private invitation.

Anyways, getting back to your question: "Can we save ourselves alone?" Surely not. God is ultimately our Savior. However, salvation also involves our cooperation with God's salvation that He has put forth. We respond to the Lord's drawing and plan of salvation (i.e. Christ's death and resurrection) that God initiated. By God's drawing, we choose to accept God's plan of salvation or not. If we choose Jesus as our Savior of our own free will choice, we are not robbing him of any glory. He knew us and chose us before the world began. This choosing or election is based on God's future foreknowledge (1 Peter 1:1-2). Jesus saves us both in Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. But we have to cooperate with the Lord's salvation in both Justification and Sanctification. This by no way means that we are saving ourselves alone. God or Christ is still the Savior. For without Jesus, we could not be forgiven of our sins. Without Jesus we could not walk in holiness.

Anyways, I hope you are understanding where I am coming from.
May God bless you;
And may you please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


...

 

[Hammster]

The dead silence we hear from Calvinists who cannot give an answer as to why God saves some people and damns others. If God has the power to save them all, then why doesn't He do so?


...

Because He does what He pleases.
He works all things according to the counsel of His will.

It's not complicated.

 

[redleghunter]

This is simply not true. People are without excuse about God's existence and His good ways. Otherwise God could not judge any of His creation. It would be like holding a Judgment for predatory animals like wolves or T-Rex's. Can you imagine it? God says to the T-Rex,

"Bad T-Rex! You ate those people! Depart from me into the Lake of Fire!" ​

By your belief in Calvinism, it is saying a similar thing. You believe men are depraved and they are unable to make a choice to choose God. So they are off the hook. Any judgment would be a joke or a farce. If there was no way for them to come to God in any way, then they cannot be held accountable anymore than a T-Rex or a wolf.

God reveals His standard of moral law not only within His Word but within the very nature of His creation itself (man).

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves." (Romans 2:14).

What law is it talking about here?

The moral law like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc. (i.e. the law of loving your neighbor - Romans 13:8-10). For the Gentiles could not obey any ceremonial law like the Sabbath, or circumcision by any instinct or natural way telling them to do that. This moral law (Which was only reinforced - not revealed) became popularized with the giving of the tablets of stone from Mt. Sinai and the writing of the Torah by Moses.



You are not reading all of Romans 1 right then. It says God reveals from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who HOLD THE TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." (Romans 1:18-19).

Yet, in the world of Calvinism they are not holding any truth in unrighteousness. Yet, this is what the above passage says (Which flies in the face of many verses that refutes Calvinism). One has to do clever gymnastic back flips or twists to undo passages like these that are very clear and plain to see when read without any Calvinistic bias.



Jesus did not mean John 15:3 (i.e. you are clean by the word which I spoken unto you) to be a one time seal a deal forever kind of thing. This is not saying that God just regenerated them whereby they will always do good. Nor is it teaching a version of OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) that says you can break God's moral laws (like murder, hate, sexual immorality, steal, etc.) and still be in His good graces. Yes, I am aware of POTS (Perseverance of the Saints) and how it is different. Besides the "Regeneration" (that ignores man's free will choice) part, there is a lite version of OSAS that is almost identical to it (and it is false). It says you have to live holy for OSAS to be true.

Anyways, John 15:3 is not teaching any kind of regeneration here. Jesus is saying you are clean by obeying God's words. This is not a new teaching in Scripture.

25 "...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." (Ephesians 5:25-27).

This is the Word by which they are made clean.

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word." (Psalms 119:9).

No doubt, you believe this is talking to the regenerated or enlightened man. But let's look at Scripture.

"For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Acts 28:27).

Here we see in this verse above that those people whose heart has waxed gross and whose ears are dull of hearing and whose eyes are closed, have a choice. LEST. LEST. LEST (UNLESS) they should see with their eyes and THEN be converted. It says THEY should see. It does not say that God makes them to see.
Also, Jesus desires Jerusalem to be saved. At the very least He desired to gather them as chicks underneath His wing as a hen. So whatever you believe that to mean, Jerusalem was not doing what Jesus (God) desired of them. They were going against God's will.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a hen protects her chicks beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me." (Matthew 23:37) (NLT).

This should not be possible in the Calvinistic universe. We see Jesus desiring something of Jerusalem by the analogy of the hen and the chicks, but Jerusalem would not let them allow Jesus to do it. This is contrary to God's Soverign will under the Calvinistic world. This verse should not be in your Bible!



I do not know of any atheist who are obeying God's moral laws today. Many of them are sexually immoral, liars, swear profanities, lust after the opposite sex outside of marriage (i.e. inappropriate content, or looking at the opposite sex at least in lust when they go out into public), etc.

Here is an animated video that you should check out.

Anyways, I gotta run. I will try and get to the rest of what you said at a later time.
May God bless you;
And may you please be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


...

Good afternoon Jason. I'm sorry but you are going to have to cease applying views I did not champion. This is the third post you attributed by assertion something I did not say. It seems you are using others to "exorcise demons" they do not conjure up themselves.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Because He does what He pleases.
He works all things according to the counsel of His will.

It's not complicated.

But how do you not see that as immoral, though?
For example: If a coast guard appeared who seemed like he was going to save you, your child, and five other people and yet he did not save you or your child (and yet he had the power to do so), and only saved the five other people, would you be like, "Oh, look son, this coast guard is surely a good man. For he reminds me a lot like God who does what he pleases in regards to saving people."

But is that what you would really say if you were in that scenario?
No. You would not say that.

Oh, and before you say that God is not a part of the coast guard who saves people, you have to keep in mind that Jesus (God) refers to Himself as a shepherd who went out and seeked to save just one sheep. So the Scriptures speak of the Lord as having a particular occupation whereby He can save people.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Good afternoon Jason. I'm sorry but you are going to have to cease applying views I did not champion. This is the third post you attributed by assertion something I did not say. It seems you are using others to "exorcise demons" they do not conjure up themselves.

Then set me straight. Tell me what you really think Calvinism says instead. I would really like to know. But I know you cannot explain it because Calvinism (in any form) does not exist in the Scriptures.


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[redleghunter]

Video created by Calvinists.

Living Waters a great ministry!

 

[Hammster]

But how do you not see that as immoral, though?
For example: If a coast guard appeared who seemed like he was going to save you, your child, and five other people and yet he did not save you or your child (and yet he had the power to do so), and only saved the five other people, would you be like, "Oh, look son, this coast guard is surely a good man. For he reminds me a lot like God who does what he pleases in regards to saving people."

But is that what you would really say if you were in that scenario?
No. You would not say that.

Oh, and before you say that God is not a part of the coast guard who saves people, you have to keep in mind that Jesus (God) refers to Himself as a shepherd who went out and seeked to save just one sheep. So the Scriptures speak of the Lord as having a particular occupation whereby He can save people.


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Do you need the scripture references for my previous answer?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus says he that rejects me and receives not his words, those very words that He had spoken will judge them on the last day. Jesus did not say, "those in whom I have caused to reject me and to not receive my words, are chosen for damnation." It says they will be judged by the very words he had spoken. This makes no sense in the Calvinistic universe because judging us according to our words would be pointless if it was God ultimately just choosing to damn people.

Jesus also said those that the Father gave Him none would He lose. Is this a contradiction for you or a Biblical paradox?

Well, one passage does not undo another passage in the Bible. You are not really explaining to me how Jesus can potentially judge a person according to their not receiving Him and His words.

"He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." (John 12:48).

But in the Calvinistic universe, nobody really truly rejects God. It is God who makes people to be damned and unable to come to Him. So they really are not rejecting God, they are simply unable to do so. Also, this verse says if we do not receive the words of Jesus, those very words will judge us on the last day. Okay. How can the very words of Jesus that He has spoken judge us on the last day if we had no capacity to truly receive those words in the first place without a regeneration by God? We cannot be held accountable for words of Jesus that we have no power or control over to receive if Calvinism is true.

As for John 6:37-40. This is what the passage says,

John 6:37-40

37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

First, what does Jesus mean by,

“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”

Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (1 Peter 1:2) (Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (1 Timothy 2:4) (2 Peter 3:9) (Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).

Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.

Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,

"I WILL lose nothing."

However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,

"I SHOULD lose nothing."

John 6:39

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

You can double check it for yourself here,

John 6 KJV

Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40

"MAY have everlasting life".

John 6:40

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him,may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?

Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.

John 17:12 - "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:
While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble.

And OSAS or POTS terminology:
While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.

Do you see now how OSAS or POTS doesn't make any sense?


Source Used:
http://conditionalsalvation.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Eternal_Security.2593556.pdf

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you need the scripture references for my previous answer?

First, that is not an answer to my question. Second, truth should be more than just quoting the Bible. There are lots of people who quote the Bible and are not exactly correct in what they say with the Bible. If you feel the Bible defends you, then by all means, you have to make your case with Scripture with a good number of verses (including the context) and not with just one isolated verse that can be read the wrong way. Three, also truth or real world examples should also align with your belief because Jesus illustrated spiritual truth all the time by using real world examples (i.e. parables). It's why I gave you a real world example to show you the error of Calvinism. Can you make a real world example out of Calvinism with a similar scenario I gave you? Remember, the Canaanite women had expounded upon Jesus's parable with a parable of her own. So this means that you should be able to do this with Calvinism. But I know you can't because Calvinism does not exist in the Bible.


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[jimmyjimmy]

The dead silence we hear from Calvinists who cannot give an answer as to why God saves some people and damns others. If God has the power to save them all, then why doesn't He do so?

Can you answer that question?

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Living Waters a great ministry!

Uh. . . that video was a bit cringy. It has God condemning a man for stealing a pack of gum and telling a lie. It paints an incorrect picture of what sin is, and make God out to be a monster. Sorry. I'm a Calvinist, as you well know, but I strongly dislike that video.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No one advocated forced regeneration. "The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

Do we "capture" this wind with our efforts, or is this an act of God choosing us?

It seems you equate choosing with forced. I reject that notion.

Does not God completely change a person from an evil, dead, and depraved state who is unable to choose Him to a state whereby He becomes good against the will of his old dead and depraved nature? Is this change with the person's approval? If it is not with their approval, then it is forced. Is this not a violation of the dead person's free will choice of what he would have preferred without a regeneration? Why does God save one particular depraved person vs. not saving another? Are they not all equally depraved, dead, and evil?

As for your quote of John 3:8 that says,
"The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

John 3:8 is not talking about Calvinism. Jesus is merely saying that this is spiritual birth by the Holy Spirit and not a physical birth.

This is how you receive the Holy Spirit.

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38).

John 3 also says,

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." (John 3:36).

Now, what about the times when a believer was given a chance to accept Christ and they refused but yet later in their life they did accept Christ? Was the wrath of God abiding on them? Also, why would the wrath of God abide on a person that God chose of His sovereign will to be damned (Especially if He can just save them)?


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