RDKirk

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You do not notice any difference between fat distribution between black and white women on average?

You don't find it strange that while women tend to be more overweight on average compared to men.. the difference between black men and black women is the largest?

African American women have a harder time losing weight | Reuters

There are more factors involved in weight management than calories and exercise. In fact, exercise in itself is a rather minor factor--people can't exercise their way out of a poor diet...and "diet" involves more than total calories.

Hormones are the keys of weight management. Not just calorie count, but also the macro nutrients themselves: A fat calorie is not a protein calorie is not a carbohydrate calorie...the body treats them differently. Any study that does not account for the factors that cause hormonal changes is an incomplete study.

A major factor is eating while under stress. Stress increases cortisol hormone levels. The purpose of cortisol is to prepare the body for fight or flight.

The body is not designed to be prepared for stress (high cortisol levels) and then just sit on its butt. The body is designed to be active, in motion, running or fighting, when cortisol levels are high.

Eating, OTOH, spikes insulin production. The purpose of insulin is to prepare the body to take in nutrition to recover from stressful activity. The body should be relaxed while eating.

The body is not designed to consume calories--increasing insulin production--while cortisol levels are high from stress. The result of that mixture, along with the calories themselves and being sedentary, promotes weight increase.

And the macronutrients themselves--beyond the calories--also evoke hormonal reactions. Simple carbohydrates spike insulin production, while fats hardly move insulin levels at all.

Frequency of eating--beyond the calories themselves--also evoke hormonal reactions. Insulin spikes for about two hours after ingesting carbohydrates (including sodas and sweetened coffees). If someone is ingesting carbohydrates every two hours--as people tend to do these days--that forces insulin levels to stay high all day long.

Time of day also evokes hormonal reactions, with cortisol levels being naturally higher in the morning (that's what wakes you up). If a person then eats simple carbohydrates for breakfast (like a donut), that spikes insulin again at the same time cortisol levels are high.

Back in the 60s, both work and school tended to preclude eating between meals. There were no vending machines in the schools, there was only a water fountain until lunch and only water after lunch. There were no breakrooms in the officer, there was only the water cooler in the hall. And eating at the desk was forbidden in both the school and the office.

What may be true is that African-Americans may be genetically more prone to insulin resistance, which means black people must more attention to limiting simple carbohydrates...which one of the big differences in our diets between now and earlier decades. We eat far more simple carbohydrates today than we ate 50 years ago and earlier.

Black women are certainly not under more stress now that in earlier decades, but they certainly have more opportunity to eat--particularly simple carbohydrates--while stressed...eating on the job, eating at the desk. Even if they reduce calories, the body's hormonal reaction to the conditions will lead to weight retention and even gain.

The worst thing to do while stressed is to eat. The body is not designed to eat while stressed. When fighting one's demons, the best thing is what Jesus prescribed: Fasting and prayer. Skip that snack and meditate.

The difference in the quality of the food is a whole other subject. Suffice it to say that in the 60s most food was practically organic compared to most food today. Even a hamburger from the local (usually local) grill was almost certainly going to be locally sourced grass-fed beef.
 
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FireDragon76

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I just don't think I'll ever understand this kind of thing. Why would you focus so much on a part of your life that by your own admission is going so poorly, and make that into your entire reason for being, instead of at least trying to be a bit more balanced? Pretending like everything is great when it isn't is not the answer, either, but you could at least try to put your best foot forward, instead cultivating this bizarre delusion that the world owes you sex because you exist and you would like to have it.

Not surprisingly, some of these groups have some overlap with the Alt-Right and other reactionary movements. The sense of entitlement as a white male is the common denominator. You rarely see these sorts of attitudes among minorities, who tend to have lower expectations about what they are owed in life.


... somewhere, I've heard this story before.

Oh, yeah. I remember now. It seems to reflect something along the lines of why Hugh Hefner started his Playboy magazine empire, albeit this incel philosophy is an obviously much more crass (and violent) form and measure of hedonistic "reflux." ........ Very interesting!

Thanks for the info, Bèlla!

This isn't really about sex or the sexual revolution, it's about power.
 
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bèlla

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Cos I think my biggest problem as a single guy is that most women aren't attracted to me, not that I'm surrounded by a bunch of degenerate fatties who live in fantasy land.

Acknowledging the role attraction plays in pairing is honest. We can pretend Christians behave differently but results say otherwise. If most dated biblically we’d have few singles. Everyone would find a partner. Including those whose physical, mental, or emotional challenges outweigh the norm.

I don't know what the age distribution is like in this thread, but I think most people who are entering middle age or older and are still single/have been single for a while probably know full well why they're still single.

Knowing something and accepting it isn’t the same. You’ll know there’s a problem long before middle age. But it isn’t addressed in Christian circles. No one tells you certain difficulties may lessen your appeal or suitors.

I was discussing relationships well before body positivity came into play. Women were complaining about male selectivity and their unwillingness to have a partner who wasn’t thin. The majority were Caucasian. They resented his preferences while exercising their own. I called out their hypocrisy.

In fact, this talk about how others are messing up might be another way of avoiding dealing with our own uncomfortable realities

I think the majority have their head in the sand. I’ve been in the singles forum since I came. I have never witnessed the dearth of relational experience or activity I’ve encountered here. I’ve never seen so many with little to no history with the opposite sex. That isn’t the norm. I’ve confirmed it with older people and recall my twenties.

A societal shift has occurred. People are being left behind. There isn’t a Christian response to middle aged singles, let alone those on the sidelines. Yes, some people need to confront their stumbling blocks. Believing everyone will turn a blind eye is naive.

If there’s no traction there’s a problem.
If no one ever says yes there’s a problem.
If you never reach first base there’s a problem.
If no one accepts your proposal there’s a problem.

That’s the truth. No feel good statements or fuzzy slogans. What are you going to do about it is a reasonable response. You can’t solve the problem until you face the music.
 
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Tom 1

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To be clear I am talking about low value men who can still attract partners, but that these partners tend to be low value too. That it is hard for many to develop feelings (romantic or sexual) for low value partners even if the person is low value themselves.

The more posts I read on here the more I form the opinion that the US is a very strange place, verging on disturbingly dysfunctional.
 
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dzheremi

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The more posts I read on here the more I form the opinion that the US is a very strange place, verging on disturbingly dysfunctional.

I don't think this website is a very representative sample of the United States.
 
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bèlla

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The more posts I read on here the more I form the opinion that the US is a very strange place, verging on disturbingly dysfunctional.

The Christians I know are easy going. We don’t talk about end times, politics, racism, feminism, etc. They may share a thought on the subject but it isn’t the bulk of their discourse. They’re balanced.

If I had to hear the same I’d never marry. It would stress me out.
 
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spiritfilledjm

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The more posts I read on here the more I form the opinion that the US is a very strange place, verging on disturbingly dysfunctional.

I like to think I put the fun in dysfunctional
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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The Christians I know are easy going. We don’t talk about end times, politics, racism, feminism, etc. They may share a thought on the subject but it isn’t the bulk of their discourse. They’re balanced.

If I had to hear the same I’d never marry. It would stress me out.

I have a super high tolerance for the gloom and doom of life due to my love of Scripture. I get energy from discussing all the drama of the Fall and the Apocalypse to come. God's "negativity" is not negative to me.:D!

But I heard something from Paul today while cycling (1 Timothy 6):

"If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions, and constant friction among people..."

"Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” for by professing it some have swerved from the faith."

Is that somewhat along the line of what guides your interactions?
 
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MehGuy

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Huh...this thread sure took a turn.

Also, as single people (those of us in this thread that are, anyway), is the best way of addressing these topics to bring up what most men aren't attracted to? Cos I think my biggest problem as a single guy is that most women aren't attracted to me, not that I'm surrounded by a bunch of degenerate fatties who live in fantasy land.

I do not post in this thread because of my singleness. I do not have a problem attracting attention from women. Many people in real life consider me to be good looking and I like what I see in the mirror. Besides suffering from depression and other mental health issues, my self esteem isn't low.

I don't know what the age distribution is like in this thread, but I think most people who are entering middle age or older and are still single/have been single for a while probably know full well why they're still single. In fact, this talk about how others are messing up might be another way of avoiding dealing with our own uncomfortable realities, saying things like

Messing up? Overweight women who are deluded and think they can socially engineer men to be attracted to them and call us sexists when we don't greatly annoys me.. especially when they try to lecture other men about not being entitled. This has nothing to do with my singleness. Even if I was married I'd be saying the same things with the same amount of anger.

"Most men don't like _____" (so it's women's fault if they insist on doing/being ____ after they already know we don't like it), rather than looking at ourselves in the mirror and really thinking about what we're bringing to the table, and what we can do to better our chances/put our best selves out there.

I'm not sure what you mean here.. I will just say I am not blaming hypocritical fat women for why I am single, lol. I see no reason why that would be. If that is what you are getting at.
 
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dzheremi

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I do not post in this thread because of my singleness. I do not have a problem attracting attention from women. Many people in real life consider me to be good looking and I like what I see in the mirror. Besides suffering from depression and other mental health issues, my self esteem isn't low.

That's good.

Messing up? Overweight women who are deluded and think they can socially engineer men to be attracted to them and call us sexists when we don't greatly annoys me.. especially when they try to lecture other men about not being entitled.

Does this happen to you often? Are fat women constantly pressuring you to be attracted to them and then calling you entitled when/if you're not? I'm not a woman, but the fat women I know tend to report the opposite problem -- being talked up really creepily by men who fetishize them and whatnot. Obviously that's anecdotal, so I'm sure there really are some fat women who are deluded (just like there are fat dudes who think they should date the proverbial '10'), but I don't know that this revolves around male attention in any case (which was the point of my post; not to pick on you). I would assume that the push to have more fat women in modeling, movies, etc. probably has more to do with increasing the visibility of people with bodies that look more like what the average US woman actually looks like, so as to mitigate the negative effects of being bombarded with images that you can never live up to but which are still presented as what's normal.

I'm not sure what you mean here.. I will just say I am not blaming hypocritical fat women for why I am single, lol. I see no reason why that would be. If that is what you are getting at.

I mean that focusing on what others should/shouldn't do in order to be attractive to you seems backwards to me if you are looking to attract someone. I didn't mean to imply that this is what you were doing in your own personal life, only that this is why telling women what is or isn't attractive doesn't seem like a great thing to do in the context of a singles subforum.
 
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MehGuy

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Does this happen to you often? Are fat women constantly pressuring you to be attracted to them and then calling you entitled when/if you're not?

In real life? No. I had one overweight women who I'd classify at least as a borderline stalker (she seemed to know where I was after work.. and we'd strangely always run into each other). She'd always question my preference for thin women. She's actually the one who asked me and other men if we liked curvy or thin women.. but besides her.. most overweight women if they have those opinions know to keep it to themselves if they are not behind a keyboard.

Although I do not see the idea that this isn't always shoved down my face a reason not to find this irksome.. especially in a thread where people are criticize incels for being entitled.

Let's not pretend entitlement is somehow a male only phenomenon.

I'm not a woman, but the fat women I know tend to report the opposite problem -- being talked up really creepily by men who fetishize them and whatnot.

Yeah chubby chasers . I think though.. that many men claim to like fat women to save face, because that's all they can really get. From what I have read from personal accounts of many overweight women.. they can get a guy.. but he's usually abusive and looks at her more as an over glorified sex doll.

Men often have no shame and many overweight women can still attract them in a more.. "well at least she has large breasts" mindset, but they're not actually seen as beautiful in the conventual sense nor cherished like one.

Obviously that's anecdotal, so I'm sure there really are some fat women who are deluded (just like there are fat dudes who think they should date the proverbial '10'), but I don't know that this revolves around male attention in any case (which was the point of my post; not to pick on you).

I don't buy it.. we're animals who are here to mate.. most body positive activists are mostly concerned about raising their sexual market value.

I would assume that the push to have more fat women in modeling, movies, etc. probably has more to do with increasing the visibility of people with bodies that look more like what the average US woman actually looks like, so as to mitigate the negative effects of being bombarded with images that you can never live up to but which are still presented as what's normal.

Despite what my conduct might indicate, I don't actually hate fat women. I love Roseanne Bar and have no problem seeing more fat women on TV. Not everyone needs to look like a beautiful model. I just roll my eyes over when they try to sell the idea that they should be seen as attractive to the average man. Plenty of fat men in comedy, but most make fun of their weight.. they don't try to sell it as attractive. Unlike what I've seen from many overweight female comedians.

I mean that focusing on what others should/shouldn't do in order to be attractive to you seems backwards to me if you are looking to attract someone. I didn't mean to imply that this is what you were doing in your own personal life, only that this is why telling women what is or isn't attractive doesn't seem like a great thing to do in the context of a singles subforum.

Well human connections and attraction are more complicated than many think. Given I'm a sadist and into masochistic women I know plenty who are into abusive and rough men, and not even in the safe context. There are actually overweight women who like to be mocked for their weight and in a real way. Given I have morals and empathy for others I do not engage in this, but I do find it funny and short sighted when I hear others say incels cannot get women due to their rotten personality. No.. they cannot get women because they'll ugly and/or poor. Plenty of rotten men attract women. Ted Bundy being the most severe case.

There was a time I was really sensitive about my short height and would express incredible anger about it. What I actually found was that some women were attracted to this. This even took me a little by surprise.
 
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bèlla

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I have a super high tolerance for the gloom and doom of life due to my love of Scripture. I get energy from discussing all the drama of the Fall and the Apocalypse to come. God's "negativity" is not negative to me.:D!

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.

God isn't negative. Our approach to scripture in relation to our experiences can make it morose. Some dwell on end times because life is unfulfilling and they want Him to come. They have a 'life sucks so blow it up mentality.' That isn't the way we're supposed to live.

Is that somewhat along the line of what guides your interactions?

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if anything is excellent, and if anything is praiseworthy, think about these things.

Religion and politics are commonly seen as divisive subjects. Etiquette teachings warn against them for that reason. I apply the same to controversial topics and restrict engagement. I prefer edifying subjects and tailor my conversation to the audience and setting.

For the most part, my approach to public discourse is through encouragement and counsel. I answer questions and offer support. I don't get bogged down in debates.

Although I'm stepping back from helping, I think its ideal. You're building up others and spreading seed. God is glorified. You may lead them to Him through your service.

~bella
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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God isn't negative. Our approach to scripture in relation to our experiences can make it morose. Some dwell on end times because life is unfulfilling and they want Him to come. They have a 'life sucks so blow it up mentality.' That isn't the way we're supposed to live.

Lol, I like that. I agree God isn't negative.
 
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MehGuy

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The more posts I read on here the more I form the opinion that the US is a very strange place, verging on disturbingly dysfunctional.

Do you find my posts disturbingly dysfunctional?

As far as American verging on the dysfunctional, I do believe as a nation we more strongly stress independent thought and to question authority more than many other countries. There seems to be a Revolutionary War spirit that is still very much alive in the minds of many Americans. I remember our teachers telling us with pride that we're different and we love to forge our own way.

Personally I prefer this, but I guess as an American myself I might be somewhat a product of my country and consequently biased.
 
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bèlla

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I would assume that the push to have more fat women in modeling

That’s primarily print ads. They’re not on the catwalk. The dresses are crafted in one size and have to fit. They’re resold at a discount later on. And typically size 0.

Luxury fashion houses haven’t caved. They offer straight sizes and won’t go higher. 2-12 is standard. Anything above it is plus. Most people can’t afford ready-to-wear and don’t have the budget for clothing ranging from $3-6K per piece. There’s no incentive to change.

They make exceptions for A-listers as the article notes. But they’re bespoke or couture with a comparable price tag.

Bespoke = RTW or custom design
Couture = Custom fit Haute Couture or specialized designs ($30K or more per dress).
 
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Tom 1

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I do believe as a nation we more strongly stress independent thought and to question authority more than many other countries

That may be true for a minority of Americans, maybe something like 30-40%. Much of American thought, as expressed on sites like this and across the news and entertainment media, is more tribal than independent.
 
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MehGuy

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That may be true for a minority of Americans, maybe something like 30-40%. Much of American thought, as expressed on sites like this and across the news and entertainment media, is more tribal than independent.

I agree that Americans can be very tribal minded, but I think this is partly a consequence of independent thought and the greater divergence of opinions that come with it.
 
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Tom 1

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I think this is partly a consequence of independent thought and the greater divergence of opinions that come with it.

I'm not so sure about that. If you compare French cinema with American cinema, for example, you can see an attempt to examine life as it is from any and every angle, rather than just creating endless fantasies about the same things. In philosophy too American thought tends to focus on particular areas (not that it isn't interesting) to do with American concerns, whereas European philosophy is much broader and deeper, delving into ideas about the world on a more fundamental level. Much of American culture and thought can seem two dimensional and uniform in comparison with what comes out of Europe, there's more mental space for people to develop their ideas in when you have a broader foundation for them.

Europe and the US are very different, obviously, and have different strengths and weaknesses, or just different ways of life. I don't see how being told at school that you are more independent, or something of that sort, actually translates into greater independence of thought. Certainly the US has a lot of diversity, but so do most European countries. The impression the US news and entertainment media gives is that the majority or maybe a large minority of Americans hold on to an outdated notion of the US that involves repeating mantras about how independent they are, but really seems more like a kind of brainwashing that makes it almost impossible for many to question whether this picture of the US is accurate or not.
 
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