The War on Christmas No Red or Green Decor

[ViaCrucis]

Some of them are less than clear exactly where they came from. However, the claim they came from pagan practices has essentially no support for most of them, both due to lack of evidence and due to implausibility due to being too far apart geographically or chronologically. The Christmas tree, for example, simply comes too late and and too far after any of the supposed connections to pagan usages of trees (some of which seem made up) for there to be any plausible connection.

We might not know exactly what prompted some people in Germany in the 16th century to start up the practice of decorating trees for Christmas, but we can be pretty sure it wasn't traditions from centuries (or even longer) ago that no one was following anymore.

From what I've been able to gather (and I'm going largely from memory here), there was a common folk practice in (parts?) of Western Europe where Mystery Plays were rather popular. Church authorities often tended to frown on some of these. Paradise Plays focusing on the Fall involved a tree which represented the tree of knowledge. When the Reformation broke out, the early Lutherans encouraged changing this folk practice into something more Christ-focused. Thus the Paradise Tree became the Christmas Tree--decorating the tree with candles (for example) represented the light of Christ entering the world. Where the Reformation spread from Saxony, not just to other parts of the HRE, but to other parts of Europe, this practice also became more common.

It is from immigrant communities coming to the American colonies (and later the US) that this tradition emerged among Americans. It was also, as a German tradition, that the Christmas tree was introduced to the UK sometime in the 19th century.

Now, were Paradise Trees in anyway connected to some pagan practice from many hundreds of years earlier? I mean it's possible. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence for this. It's really quite possible that these really are just local customs that emerged in small communities that spread further.

Small local customs becoming more popular and spreading to other places isn't a weird idea. In less than a hundred years Trick or Treating which began among local shopkeepers in the first half of the 20th century in America grew in immense popularity, becoming one of the most recognizable customs and traditions associated with All Hallow' Eve, not just in America, but has spread to other parts of the world as well.

This does happen, local customs spread to become widespread custom.

Further, a worthwhile point to make: Folk traditions and customs surrounding a particular religious day of observance, should be distinct from formal religious observance.

Religiously, for me Christmas is the liturgical season comprising the twelve days from December 25th until January 5th, as a liturgical season it comes between Advent and Epiphany. Christmas Day, the Feast of Christ's Holy Nativity, is a religious observance, Christ's Mass, that emphasizes the birth of Christ. Right now in the Western Church Calendar it is Advent, and so the focus is on the dual-celebration of Christ's First Coming and also His Second Coming; bringing together the Scripture speaking of the hope of the Messiah for Israel in the Old Testament, and the hope of Messiah's return and healing and renewal of creation in the Age to Come. Advent in the Western Calendar serves as both the start and the end of the Christian Year; it begins by being the prelude of the Nativity--the expectant hope of Israel's redeemer as foretold in the Prophets; and it serves as being the capstone to the Ordinary Time after Pentecost, the expectant hope of the Church looking forward to the consummation of all things.

Christmas, for me, isn't about trees, gift-giving, decorations, Christmas carols, etc. I'm not opposed to any of these things, and I like these things. But that simply isn't what Christmas means to me as far as religious observance goes. All of these folk customs, these cultural accretions, is just extra stuff--I like the extra stuff. It is sentimental for me. But I don't need a tree, I don't need lights, or Santa Clause, or any of this stuff for it to be Christmas. Christmas is the Feast of the Holy Nativity, Christ is born, and that is good news. Christmas is Gospel, everything else is peripheral.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[JSRG]

From what I've been able to gather (and I'm going largely from memory here), there was a common folk practice in (parts?) of Western Europe where Mystery Plays were rather popular. Church authorities often tended to frown on some of these. Paradise Plays focusing on the Fall involved a tree which represented the tree of knowledge. When the Reformation broke out, the early Lutherans encouraged changing this folk practice into something more Christ-focused. Thus the Paradise Tree became the Christmas Tree--decorating the tree with candles (for example) represented the light of Christ entering the world. Where the Reformation spread from Saxony, not just to other parts of the HRE, but to other parts of Europe, this practice also became more common.

It is from immigrant communities coming to the American colonies (and later the US) that this tradition emerged among Americans. It was also, as a German tradition, that the Christmas tree was introduced to the UK sometime in the 19th century.

Now, were Paradise Trees in anyway connected to some pagan practice from many hundreds of years earlier? I mean it's possible. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence for this. It's really quite possible that these really are just local customs that emerged in small communities that spread further.

Between my post and you posting this, I looked at the Oxford Handbook of Christmas (obviously a quite scholarly source!), which backs you up on this. It has a chapter on Christmas trees, and it says the following:

"The Christmas tree tradition most likely developed from a combination of medieval liturgical traditions and guild patronage to local communities, which over time were transformed into a private practice beginning in the sixteenth century. In the medieval period, many people could not read and write, so plays were a way to communicate biblical stories. In that time, a Paradise Tree was set up for plays to represent the Tree of the Knowledge mentioned in Genesis 2:9. The actor playing Adam would later parade through the streets of the town with the tree. The tree symbolized humanity’s downfall but also represented the tree of the cross, which would become the salvation of all people. Medieval tradition even claimed that Adam had taken a branch from the Tree of Knowledge and Jesus’ cross was made from that tree. The trees were decorated with apples, representing the Fall of humankind, while round pastry wafers on the tree symbolized the Eucharistic host as the path to salvation. The plays were performed on 24 December, which was the feast day for Adam and Eve. The display of the Paradise Tree was meant to symbolize the Garden of Eden where they lived. The liturgical calendar placed their feast day here to remind Christians that Jesus’ birth was a conduit of salvation allowing humanity to return to its perfect state in the Garden."

I had to type this up manually, so excuse any typos (there is more to the chapter and even this specific subject, but to type up more would be tedious and possibly run afoul of copyright rules). But if this is accurate, we can easily see how prominent use of a decorated tree on December 24 could lead to people using decorated trees in a different fashion on December 25.

 

[MForbes]

The only thing all of this “war on christmas” (ignorance on both sides) has done is make me hate holiday season more. After 63 years on this earth, I’m pretty happy to be close to the end of my tour. The creator hasn’t taken any sides on this.

 

[Margaret3110]

Christmas, for me, isn't about trees, gift-giving, decorations, Christmas carols, etc. I'm not opposed to any of these things, and I like these things. But that simply isn't what Christmas means to me as far as religious observance goes. All of these folk customs, these cultural accretions, is just extra stuff--I like the extra stuff. It is sentimental for me. But I don't need a tree, I don't need lights, or Santa Clause, or any of this stuff for it to be Christmas. Christmas is the Feast of the Holy Nativity, Christ is born, and that is good news. Christmas is Gospel, everything else is peripheral.

This is exactly how I feel. Sure I enjoy the extras but they're not Christmas. I grew up in a non-Christian household with "Christmas" being celebrated as a secular holiday. It's completely different for me now as a Christian even though some outward things are the same.

Referring to the original article, I'm not sure what the deal is with "red and green decor" since those colors have no religious significance for Christians as far as I'm aware ...

 

[Pommer]

This is exactly how I feel. Sure I enjoy the extras but they're not Christmas. I grew up in a non-Christian household with "Christmas" being celebrated as a secular holiday. It's completely different for me now as a Christian even though some outward things are the same.

Referring to the original article, I'm not sure what the deal is with "red and green decor" since those colors have no religious significance for Christians as far as I'm aware ...

The only “war on Christmas“ there is, is when we hear from some outraged conservative (or other) who takes issue with commercial enterprises engaged in selling their wares to as many people as possible; if their companies don’t kowtow sufficiently to placate the whims of a vocal minority, (who are complaining that “Happy Holidays” is somehow “persecution”), they’ll lose money.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This is exactly how I feel. Sure I enjoy the extras but they're not Christmas. I grew up in a non-Christian household with "Christmas" being celebrated as a secular holiday. It's completely different for me now as a Christian even though some outward things are the same.

Referring to the original article, I'm not sure what the deal is with "red and green decor" since those colors have no religious significance for Christians as far as I'm aware ...

No idea. As Christmas liturgical colors are either white or gold.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[A2SG]

One possible explanation for the use of red and green is that "holly, with its green leaves and red berries, long played a role in winter solstice celebrations that predate the spread of Christmas."

-- A2SG, or, it could just be that they're nice colors.....

 

[Margaret3110]

One possible explanation for the use of red and green is that "holly, with its green leaves and red berries, long played a role in winter solstice celebrations that predate the spread of Christmas."

-- A2SG, or, it could just be that they're nice colors.....

Exactly my point. They aren't liturgical colors or anything apparently Christian so I'm not sure why anyone would fuss about them one way or the other.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Florida man gets 'agitated' by neighborhood Christmas parade, fires off several gunshots: deputies​

Douglas Moore, 43, was arrested and charged with six counts of aggravated assault with a firearm, reckless discharge of a firearm and using a firearm while under the influence of alcohol

 

[essentialsaltes]

Speaking of red and green decor, some minor ex-Trump official got obliterated on X for suggesting a holiday display was expressing support for Hamas/the Palestinian flag.

Be on the lookout for suspicious combinations of red/green/white/black.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm sure you all want to know what the NY Post thinks of Dr. Jill Biden's Christmas video at the White House.

O Come All Ye Haters.

First lady Jill Biden on Wednesday posted a two-and-a-half minute clip of New York City tap company Dorrance Dance’s take on Duke Ellington and Billy Strayhorn’s interpretation of Tchaikovsky’s “Nutcracker Suite.”

 

[essentialsaltes]

Because of Trump, I can wish you all a Merry Christmas!
(It's not quite Christmas day here yet, but I see Aussie Pete is already celebrating.)

The first Noel the angel did say
Was to certain poor shepherds in fields as they lay;
In fields where they lay, keeping their sheep,
On a cold winter's night that was so deep:

Nowell, Nowell, Nowell, Nowell,
Born is the King of Israel.

 

[essentialsaltes]

“THEY SPIED ON MY CAMPAIGN, LIED TO CONGRESS, CHEATED ON FISA, RIGGED A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, ALLOWED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, MANY FROM PRISONS & MENTAL INSTITUTIONS, TO INVADE OUR COUNTRY, SCREWED UP IN AFGHANISTAN, & JOE BIDEN’S MISFITS & THUGS, LIKE DERANGED JACK SMITH, ARE COMING AFTER ME, AT LEVELS OF PERSECUTION NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN OUR COUNTRY??? IT’S CALLED ELECTION INTERFERENCE. MERRY CHRISTMAS!” Trump posted on Christmas Eve.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

“THEY SPIED ON MY CAMPAIGN, LIED TO CONGRESS, CHEATED ON FISA, RIGGED A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, ALLOWED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, MANY FROM PRISONS & MENTAL INSTITUTIONS, TO INVADE OUR COUNTRY, SCREWED UP IN AFGHANISTAN, & JOE BIDEN’S MISFITS & THUGS, LIKE DERANGED JACK SMITH, ARE COMING AFTER ME, AT LEVELS OF PERSECUTION NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN OUR COUNTRY??? IT’S CALLED ELECTION INTERFERENCE. MERRY CHRISTMAS!” Trump posted on Christmas Eve.

I need to get some of those trump Christmas cards.

 

[Pommer]

“THEY SPIED ON MY CAMPAIGN, LIED TO CONGRESS, CHEATED ON FISA, RIGGED A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, ALLOWED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, MANY FROM PRISONS & MENTAL INSTITUTIONS, TO INVADE OUR COUNTRY, SCREWED UP IN AFGHANISTAN, & JOE BIDEN’S MISFITS & THUGS, LIKE DERANGED JACK SMITH, ARE COMING AFTER ME, AT LEVELS OF PERSECUTION NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN OUR COUNTRY??? IT’S CALLED ELECTION INTERFERENCE. MERRY CHRISTMAS!” Trump posted on Christmas Eve.

Attacking on Christmas Eve? Just like that one fella, what’s his name?
If he wins, it’s Holy Writ, he’s promised “retribution“.

 

[returntosender]

I support the non-commercialization of a Christian holiday. Santa, red&green and tinsel on your tree is Pagan. Reserving a day to revere our Lord and Savior's virgin birth is the meaning of Christ-Mass. Even if it is celebrated at the winter solstice which is a Pagan holy day anyway.

Why we ever thought it would be okay to take a pagan holiday and make it a celebration of Jesus' birthday is a slap in his face. He hates lies. Good grief for the Christian leaders who perpetrated this and perpetuated it over the years. I'm done with it. From now on I'm celebrating his birth on January 7th which is the true estimation. All the uproar over the pagan Halloween, what? And they let this insult to Jesus go on? Shame on all that continue this farce!

 

[rjs330]

That’s a lot of word salad for what is essentially an article where, when presented with information, the author puts their finger in their ears and says “no it’s not.”

And some of these delineation are pretty specific so as to cultivate the answer they want. “There’s no evidence Romans cut down evergreens during the period of December to bring into their house and decorate with iconography and lights for the purpose of celebrating a religious event.” Well no duh. When you get that specific, of course there isn’t. Basic common sense tells me the tree or plants people would have used for any celebration depended on their region, what they put in it depended on what they had and what was practical, the reasons for doing it depended on the region and traditions of the time, and even the act of bringing it inside implies post-industrialization advancement to an era where people lived more indoors than out.

Heck, in my own family… My great, great grandfather’s family decorated the tree with dead dough (basically salt dough) ornaments because he worked in a bakery. My grandparents didn’t have a tree because they’re messy, but were devout Catholics who did every religious thing during the season that was available from their church. My mother cut out pictures from the paper and painted cardboard ornaments because she was broke, alone with a baby, and with that’s what she had, and the idea of wasting flour for something inedible was unconscionable. Her tree was bundled castoffs from Christmas tree lots. My sister has a fake tree that has a few ornaments that all match. I have a real tree with nothing that matches and every inch of the tree has something hanging on it. Our close family friends? They decorate a palm tree. They live in Florida and that’s what they like. What book (Dickens, I think) is it where they talked about candles lighting up the tree, but then another household would never dream of wasting something as finite and expensive as candles for something as frivolous as a Christmas decoration?

All of these people do what they do because of a basic core practice around Christmas. But this guy would say “there is no evidence that Romans would decorate palm trees with beer bottle caps and sea shells in December to celebrate a religious festival or event” and then would use that to prove my Florida-based friends don’t decorate palm trees as part of their Christmas traditions, when the fact is that’s exactly what they do for their holiday.

Ultimately, the idea that in the span of 2,000 years EVERY tradition from Christmas was invented by Christians or secularists is dumb. I’m sure they lifted from Pagans. I’m sure Pagans lifted off others. I’m sure some of it is cultural that became religious. I’m sure some of it is religious that has been turned secular or cultural. The expansion of people, population distribution, and travel over hundreds of generations has led to the expansion, contracting, co-opting, and innocent and not so innocent appropriating of various traditions. Some became mainstream, some were and then weren’t, some aren’t now but will become mainstream. You will never pull the thread far enough to find the first person who, for the first time, decided to slap a decoration on a tree, and then uncover their motivation for it, so arguing that one has done just that is pointless (and disingenuous).

The fact is decorating a tree, Yule logs, the date of Christmas, giving gifts, Santa and reindeer, caroling, Hallmark Christmas movies, red, green, gold, and silver, tinsel… None of that is in the Bible as part of celebrating the birth of Jesus. Some it came from Pagans. Some of it came from secular cultural roots. Some of it came from other religions. Some of it came from the church. Some of it came from vague traditions. It’s all a jumble of practices that came from a jumble of places that encapsulate various practices that folded into Christmas. Nobody can drop it all on one doorstep or claim all of it as their original idea. Anybody who says otherwise is looking for a simple answer to a complex cultural evolution.

Who cares? Who cares if people used tinsel.or dried dough. Who cares if we exchange presents or have a tree or not? Who cares if red and green are used? None of these things really matter. What matters is Christmas is about the celebration of the birth of Christ. The coming of the Son. For unto you is born a savior. That's why Christmas is celebrated. And through the years various traditions have developed in order to assist with the celebration of the coming of the Savior. THATS why we have Christmas. To miss that is to miss the whole thing.

And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
Bible Gateway passage: Luke 2:8, Luke 2:9, Luke 2:10 - King James Version

The rest of the traditions of Christmas are just fluff and quite frankly irrelevant to What Christmas is about.

 

[rjs330]

Again, word salad. All of which depends on the legitimacy of a website that looks like it was formatted in 1997, written by some guy who claims to be an aspiring historian who graduated college in 2022, uses no citations, and who, like you, uses some pretty big logic jumps to make their argument even work. I don’t know why you’d think if, say, trees came from a pagan holiday it would HAVE to be widespread. It certainly doesn’t. How many things to people do worldwide in the name of Christmas these days thar look nothing like what people in another region do? German Christmas is very different from Japanese Christmas which is very different from Christmas in New England which is a different animal than Christmas in Florida. Why would we assume when the holiday we are talking about has 1,000 different representations that the thing it derived its practices from would have “obviously” had a singular, a universally adopted, and widespread practice? It’s a logical fallacy.

Secondly, he, like you, are saying that because where this stuff derived from doesn’t match *exactly* to our practices, it’s not the origin. Again, logical fallacy that’s super disingenuous. In Florida, the Caribbean, and tropical places, decorating palm trees is a commonly seen practice. It’s clearly derived from the evergreen Christmas tree, adapted to suit regionally and practicality, and enjoyed in those regions. By your logic, and the logic of this 20-something recent graduate, this would be a practice unaffiliated with the roots of Christmas because nowhere does anybody say anything about decorating palm trees. That would be clearly and unequivocally wrong.

Saying “the best I could find about Santa and reindeer is a poem from the 1800 that unlikely has anything to do with Odin” is a logic jump. First off, the best you can find does not represent what it must be, just where you’ve expressed your limitations in research are. Secondly, deciding it must have nothing to do with Odin is a logic jump based entirely on assuming what his motivation and inspiration was while ignoring that particular window in history, pre-Christian Gods and mythology was all the rage and this could well have been his inspiration. So to make this “fact” work, we have to accept the best research you personally are capable of is the best research that anybody can do (false), and that we can guess the author’s motivations and inspirations without actually checking in with said author (also false). So in the end, you have declared as fact something that really isn’t something that can be claimed as fact. Just the best information two people with an internet connection and some free time can come up with.

Like the other person said, this is arguing just to argue. There will be no getting to the 100% conclusive “this is where it came from” beyond knowing that a whole decent amount of it came from pre-Christian cultural and spiritual practices of vague and indeterminate origins. We will never be able to say that trees for Christmas came from Robert B. Pagan of Odinville, circa December 3rd, 1000 BC when he looked at a blue spruce and said “this tree looks bare… You know what would make it perfect? Decorations. Lots of them. I shall hang this ornament of a red truck with a cut tree in the bed, that shall appease The Gods… Hey John K. Heathen, you wanted to know what to do with the frog wearing a Santa hat your MIL gave you? Check this out...”

I think you missed the whole point which is there is little to no evidence for the claims that Christmas is all about stolen pagan practices. Trying to claim that some obscure reference, without evidence, as a Christmas tradition practiced today is nothing more than false equivalence. No one sat around and said hey the pagans put carrots in boots over in Scandinavia, let hand out Christmas presents. Or the Egyptians had trees to celebrate a
Ra so let's have a tree to celebrate the birth of Christ.

Trying to tie paganism with their love for evergreens with Christianity and the Christmas tree is a HUGE stretch. The Germans appear to be the first people to have Christmas trees around the 16th century when Christians started doing it there. It didn't really catch on in America until the 19th century. To say it was borrowed from paganism is such a giant stretch as to be foolish. There is no evidence that is where it came from.

One night as well say some pagan tribe worshipped sand and sand is used to make glass and glass was used to make Christmas tree ornaments therefore Christmas tree ornaments are a pagan celebration.

Quit trying to make Christmas into some sort of paganistic celebration. It's a celebration of the birth of Christ and God's gift to the world. Christians celebrate it with trees and gifts because the tree is really pretty and gives the house a warm glow. Presents are given to celebrate the great gift we were given. We didn't steal the idea from some pagan who put a carrot in a boot.

 

[rjs330]

Why we ever thought it would be okay to take a pagan holiday and make it a celebration of Jesus' birthday is a slap in his face. He hates lies. Good grief for the Christian leaders who perpetrated this and perpetuated it over the years. I'm done with it. From now on I'm celebrating his birth on January 7th which is the true estimation. All the uproar over the pagan Halloween, what? And they let this insult to Jesus go on? Shame on all that continue this farce!

Christmas is not a pagan holiday. Don't buy the nonsense that worldly people want to sell you to try and make you believe that Christmas is a bad thing. Christmas is a wonderful moment to remind us of the birth of our Savior. And another opportunity to teach our children the real meaning of Christmas. Yes it is highly commercialized. But we don't have to buy into that. We can love the season and remember and celebrate and remind others that into them this day was born a savior who is Christ the Lord.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

I think you missed the whole point which is there is little to no evidence for the claims that Christmas is all about stolen pagan practices. Trying to claim that some obscure reference, without evidence, as a Christmas tradition practiced today is nothing more than false equivalence. No one sat around and said hey the pagans put carrots in boots over in Scandinavia, let hand out Christmas presents. Or the Egyptians had trees to celebrate a
Ra so let's have a tree to celebrate the birth of Christ.

Trying to tie paganism with their love for evergreens with Christianity and the Christmas tree is a HUGE stretch. The Germans appear to be the first people to have Christmas trees around the 16th century when Christians started doing it there. It didn't really catch on in America until the 19th century. To say it was borrowed from paganism is such a giant stretch as to be foolish. There is no evidence that is where it came from.

One night as well say some pagan tribe worshipped sand and sand is used to make glass and glass was used to make Christmas tree ornaments therefore Christmas tree ornaments are a pagan celebration.

Quit trying to make Christmas into some sort of paganistic celebration. It's a celebration of the birth of Christ and God's gift to the world. Christians celebrate it with trees and gifts because the tree is really pretty and gives the house a warm glow. Presents are given to celebrate the great gift we were given. We didn't steal the idea from some pagan who put a carrot in a boot.

There’s some serious denial in both of these posts but ok.