The Universalist Story is Not a Realistic Story (Annihilationism vs. Universalism)

[Mark Corbett]

Not sure if it is blessings for all as you said. Israel will take captives and they will be her servants. The lake of fire will exist during this time. Zechariah 14 shows that there will be a great tumult -later than Armageddon and Israel will be plundering the ones that come against her. The nations that survive will be required to come to worship the King and keep the feast of tabernacles - or get no rain. God/Jehovah/Jesus Christ is the first and last - as in there is no other God - He is the beginning and the ending. Some people may rebel to try to keep their dead relatives from the lake of fire in the future.

At the time of the 7th trumpet, before the vials have even started against the wicked - Jesus Christ will be seen on the right hand of the Father in heaven - as the sign of the Son of man in heaven that happens after the tribulation is over. The wicked will hide in the rocks as foretold in Isaiah 2:10-12 and this will be the time of the 6th seal.
But after this time, the church will go to heaven and there will be silence in heaven and the seven angels will get a new job - the pouring of the seven full vials on the wicked/followers of Babylon/Iraq.

You have some very specific interpretations of end time prophecy, including Revelation. I'm honestly not sure about some of the specifics you write about. That doesn't mean I haven't thought a lot about the meaning of Revelation. I have! I don't want to get too side tracked on this topic here in this thread. So, I just started a new thread on this:

The Book of Revelation is Practical and Applicable

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Mark Corbett]

Compare:
"So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth." (Gen.6:13)

The "end" of all people was "destruction" by God. This already happened. Yet they are not annihilated forever. And they will be resurrected. Their "end" was only a temporary end or result or outcome. Not final destiny.

The earth was "destroyed", not endlessly annihilated (Gen.6:13).
Likewise with Phil.3:19.

ClementofA, You use the word "destroy" in Genesis 6:13 to provide an explanation for "destruction" in Philippians 3:19. I see some problems with your method and your conclusion:

1. The Greek word used in Philippians 3:19 for destruction is apoleia. The original word in Genesis 6:13 was in Hebrew, not Greek, and even the LXX does not use apoleia here. So, in terms of providing evidence for the meaning of "destruction" (apoleia) in Philippians 3:19, Genesis 6:13 is minimally applicable.

2. Even just looking at the English, your point does not appear well supported. In English, the word "destroy" takes on different meanings based on the context. If we see that the Cowboys destroyed the Ravens, we mean something far different than if we say the air force destroyed the enemy tanks. In Genesis 6:13, the earth is "destroyed" by having it's surface wiped clean. The earth was never conscious, so losing the ability to think and feel is of course not part of its destruction. However, the people are destroyed by being killed. The part of them which is destroyed (their bodies) can no longer think or feel anything. So this is entirely consistent with an annihilationist interpretation of "destruction" in Philippians 3:19.

 

[ClementofA]

ClementofA, You use the word "destroy" in Genesis 6:13 to provide an explanation for "destruction" in Philippians 3:19. I see some problems with your method and your conclusion:

1. The Greek word used in Philippians 3:19 for destruction is apoleia. The original word in Genesis 6:13 was in Hebrew, not Greek, and even the LXX does not use apoleia here. So, in terms of providing evidence for the meaning of "destruction" (apoleia) in Philippians 3:19, Genesis 6:13 is minimally applicable.

2. Even just looking at the English, your point does not appear well supported. In English, the word "destroy" takes on different meanings based on the context. If we see that the Cowboys destroyed the Ravens, we mean something far different than if we say the air force destroyed the enemy tanks. In Genesis 6:13, the earth is "destroyed" by having it's surface wiped clean. The earth was never conscious, so losing the ability to think and feel is of course not part of its destruction. However, the people are destroyed by being killed. The part of them which is destroyed (their bodies) can no longer think or feel anything. So this is entirely consistent with an annihilationist interpretation of "destruction" in Philippians 3:19.

"The part of them which is destroyed (their bodies) can no longer think or feel anything. So this is entirely consistent with an annihilationist interpretation of "destruction" in Philippians 3:19."

Those bodies that were destroyed will be resurrected back to life, so the destruction is a temporary destruction, not an endless annihilation. God will reverse this destruction.

Even though God said this destruction was to be their "end" (Gen.6:13), it will not be their final destiny. Likewise with the "end" spoken of in Phil.3:19.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
Forum
http://www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html

 

[ClementofA]

ClementofA, You use the word "destroy" in Genesis 6:13 to provide an explanation for "destruction" in Philippians 3:19. I see some problems with your method and your conclusion:

1. The Greek word used in Philippians 3:19 for destruction is apoleia. The original word in Genesis 6:13 was in Hebrew, not Greek, and even the LXX does not use apoleia here. So, in terms of providing evidence for the meaning of "destruction" (apoleia) in Philippians 3:19, Genesis 6:13 is minimally applicable.

The fact that the translators consistently render both the Hebrew & Greek word by the English words "destroy" & "destruction" in similar contexts tells us that these 2 words have a similar meaning. The vast majority of versions translate the words at both verses using words which mean the same thing. That includes the Jewish scholars who translated the JPS 1917 version, at least 3 English translations of the LXX Greek OT, and at least 2 Latin Bible translations, including the Vulgate. Furthermore, lexicon definitions show the two words are closely related in what they mean.

2. Even just looking at the English, your point does not appear well supported. In English, the word "destroy" takes on different meanings based on the context. If we see that the Cowboys destroyed the Ravens, we mean something far different than if we say the air force destroyed the enemy tanks. In Genesis 6:13, the earth is "destroyed" by having it's surface wiped clean. The earth was never conscious, so losing the ability to think and feel is of course not part of its destruction. However, the people are destroyed by being killed. The part of them which is destroyed (their bodies) can no longer think or feel anything. So this is entirely consistent with an annihilationist interpretation of "destruction" in Philippians 3:19.

Those bodies that were destroyed will be resurrected back to life, so the destruction is a temporary destruction, not an endless annihilation. God will reverse this destruction.

Even though God said this destruction was to be their "end" (Gen.6:13), it will not be their final destiny. Likewise with the "end" spoken of in Phil.3:19.

https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf