The Unforgiveable Sins

[TedT]

What do you make of the multitudes of people who have not knowingly rejected a relationship with God simply because they are utterly and completely ignorant of anything and everything related to Jesus Christ? These include numberless people who will and have never even heard the name of Jesus Christ, those people who have died prematurely as miscarriages or abortions, people who die in their infancy, and imbeciles and other morons who lack the intellectual capacity to make any faith decision.

These people do not exist. Every person here on earth including all you describe have all seen the truth of GOD because HE made it plain to them by the creation of the physical universe before their eyes but they rejected that truth because they loved sin more and so entered a self chosen delusion of a reality without GOD. This is the teaching of Romans 1 from verse 18 to the end.

Premature death in the womb proves sinfulness of the fetus as death is the wages for sin, not a consequence of life. These people are dealt with in the womb according to whether they are elect or reprobate non-elect. The elect are brought to faith: Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
while the non-elect, those who rejected all belief in HIM becoming condemned already for having never believed, Jn 3:18, return to Sheol: Ps 9:17 The wicked shall RETURN to Sheol, all the nations that forget God. The actual word is RETURN, though we do acknowledge the ABSOLUTELY wrongful translations of to turn into or are sent down to as good intentioned but eisegesic attempts to keep us safe from the supposed heresy of our pre-conception existence...sigh.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes, you read it right. This thread is a discussion of the unforgiveable sins which God will not forgive and which will keep people from entering heaven. Typically, the discussion revolves around the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus stated was the only sin which God cannot forgive.

You've just answered your own question then; blasphemy against the Spirit cannot be forgiven.
Mark 3:28-30 explains this. Jesus was casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit; the Pharisees said that he was possessed by Beelzebub (devil) and was casting out demons in his power. Not only did they see a miracle and attribute it to the devil, they said that Jesus was possessed by the devil.

The unforgiveable sin is attributing something that is from God, to the devil; giving him credit for it.

Some people might like to think that homosexuality, divorce, abortion etc are unforgiveable - that justifies their protesting against them. But they're not.

 

[bbbbbbb]

These people do not exist. Every person here on earth including all you describe have all seen the truth of GOD because HE made it plain to them by the creation of the physical universe before their eyes but they rejected that truth because they loved sin more and so entered a self chosen delusion of a reality without GOD. This is the teaching of Romans 1 from verse 18 to the end.

Premature death in the womb proves sinfulness of the fetus as death is the wages for sin, not a consequence of life. These people are dealt with in the womb according to whether they are elect or reprobate non-elect. The elect are brought to faith: Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.
while the non-elect, those who rejected all belief in HIM becoming condemned already for having never believed, Jn 3:18, return to Sheol: Ps 9:17 The wicked shall RETURN to Sheol, all the nations that forget God. The actual word is RETURN, though we do acknowledge the ABSOLUTELY wrongful translations of to turn into or are sent down to as good intentioned but eisegesic attempts to keep us safe from the supposed heresy of our pre-conception existence...sigh.

Do you define faith as a spiritual condition not dependent on the mental and moral attributes of a person?

 

[bbbbbbb]

You've just answered your own question then; blasphemy against the Spirit cannot be forgiven.
Mark 3:28-30 explains this. Jesus was casting out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit; the Pharisees said that he was possessed by Beelzebub (devil) and was casting out demons in his power. Not only did they see a miracle and attribute it to the devil, they said that Jesus was possessed by the devil.

The unforgiveable sin is attributing something that is from God, to the devil; giving him credit for it.

Some people might like to think that homosexuality, divorce, abortion etc are unforgiveable - that justifies their protesting against them. But they're not.

Thank you. You have definitely understood my OP.

 

[TedT]

Do you define faith as a spiritual condition not dependent on the mental and moral attributes of a person?

Faith is hope in unproven things. The faith that had us be chosen as HIS elect was pre-sin therefore we were perfectly able to make a free will decision to put our faith in HIS claims or to put our faith in the idea HE was a liar and a false god.

After some of these elect sinned and lost their free will and their faith, their return to faith is in GOD's will not their own which is corrupt and enslaved to sin. GOD has promised HE will lose none of them no matter what mental state they may suffer due to their sinfulness:
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Even if they should be predetermined to die in the womb, HE brings them to faith in that secret place:
Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Faith is hope in unproven things. The faith that had us be chosen as HIS elect was pre-sin therefore we were perfectly able to make a free will decision to put our faith in HIS claims or to put our faith in the idea HE was a liar and a false god.

After some of these elect sinned and lost their free will and their faith, their return to faith is in GOD's will not their own which is corrupt and enslaved to sin. GOD has promised HE will lose none of them no matter what mental state they may suffer due to their sinfulness:
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Even if they should be predetermined to die in the womb, HE brings them to faith in that secret place:
Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

Thank you.

 

[HuskeyBoy]

Not to get nerdy, but you have to look at this passage in the same context as the people around Jesus did when He said it, especially the Pharisees who were supposed to know the scriptures better than anyone else.

The Holy Spirit did three big things in the OT:

1. Anointed Kings (i.e. King David)
2. Enabled Prophets (i.e. Elisha)
3. Was always present at “new creation” moments (see Genesis 1:1-2)
(There’s more, but these are the big ones)

To blaspheme the Holy Spirit was to say that the work that the Holy Spirit was doing through Jesus (coming on Him as the new King, as God’s prophet, and as He was starting a new creation event) didn’t come from God and was false. Add to that the Holy Spirit was validating Jesus as the Messiah King with obvious and multiple miracles. All this was coming together in Christ at this huge junction in time.

The Pharisees saw the obvious king/prophet/creation/miracles work of the Holy Spirit in Christ, and purposefully chose to keep hating Him because of their greed and selfishness. They weren’t just blaspheming Jesus, they were blaspheming the obvious mighty Messiah-validating power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Neogaia777]

Except this specific sin is a specific blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, or God the Spirit specifically...

As right in that passage of scripture that talks about it, Jesus opens it right up with saying and making it very clear that it is not just mere words arrayed against him and him only, or just only Jesus (most especially the man) only specifically...

And this specific blasphemy can only be done or committed only after you know the Holy Spirit apart from Jesus specifically...

But you blaspheme/profane Him anyway...

And many of you are just not there yet, specifically...

Children and those without accurate knowledge cannot do it yet specifically, for they are protected from that until they are no longer specifically...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Except this specific sin is a specific blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, or God the Spirit specifically...

As right in that passage of scripture that talks about it, Jesus opens it right up with saying and making it very clear that it is not just mere words arrayed against him and him only, or just only Jesus (most especially the man) only specifically...

And this specific blasphemy can only be done or committed only after you know the Holy Spirit apart from Jesus specifically...

But you blaspheme/profane Him anyway...

And many of you are just not there yet, specifically...

Children and those without accurate knowledge cannot do it yet specifically, for they are protected from that until they are no longer specifically...

God Bless!

A blasphemy against the "person" of Jesus can and will be forgiven fully, but the blasphemy, or any blasphemy, against the "person" of the Holy Spirit, will never ever be forgiven at all ever, etc, once a person knows enough about the person of Him (or each) to be able to ever do so fully in this life...

God Bless!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Except this specific sin is a specific blaspheming against the Holy Spirit, or God the Spirit specifically...

As right in that passage of scripture that talks about it, Jesus opens it right up with saying and making it very clear that it is not just mere words arrayed against him and him only, or just only Jesus (most especially the man) only specifically...

And this specific blasphemy can only be done or committed only after you know the Holy Spirit apart from Jesus specifically...

But you blaspheme/profane Him anyway...

And many of you are just not there yet, specifically...

Children and those without accurate knowledge cannot do it yet specifically, for they are protected from that until they are no longer specifically...

God Bless!

That poses a curious reality. For the vast majority of humanity who know nothing whatsoever about Christianity much less the Holy Spirit, this sin is utterly impossible.

 

[Neogaia777]

That poses a curious reality. For the vast majority of humanity who know nothing whatsoever about Christianity much less the Holy Spirit, this sin is utterly impossible.

Yep...

At least where most of them are currently at right now anyway...

That particular sin is a warning for those who have already come to know Him (Holy Spirit) (or God the Spirit) personally and as a (separate?) person, etc...

To not judge Him evil, or think evil of Him in their hearts, once they have come to know Him, and who He is, and what He has done/does, etc, both in the past and up to presently, etc...

God Bless!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yep...

At least where most of them are currently at right now anyway...

That particular sin is a warning for those who have already come to know Him (Holy Spirit) (or God the Spirit) personally and as a (separate?) person, etc...

To not judge Him evil, or think evil of Him in their hearts, once they have come to know Him, and who He is, and what He has done/does, etc, both in the past and up to presently, etc...

God Bless!

Thank you! God bless you as well!

 

[friend of]

In the context in which this blasphemy is brought up, it is committed seemingly by unbelieving Jewish people.

 

[bbbbbbb]

In the context in which this blasphemy is brought up, it is committed seemingly by unbelieving Jewish people.

It certainly couldn't be committed by people who had never heard of God or the Holy Spirit.

 

[Fervent]

There's an underlying premise to the OP that I'm not sure is accurate, namely that it is unforgiveness on the part of God that prevents people from going to heaven. There is far too much ground to cover in a post or few posts, but it seems to me that the issue today is not sin as Jesus atoned for sin. What remains is unbelief, and it is those who remain in unbelief who will not be once and for all delivered from their sins but instead be left in them.

 

[bbbbbbb]

There's an underlying premise to the OP that I'm not sure is accurate, namely that it is unforgiveness on the part of God that prevents people from going to heaven. There is far too much ground to cover in a post or few posts, but it seems to me that the issue today is not sin as Jesus atoned for sin. What remains is unbelief, and it is those who remain in unbelief who will not be once and for all delivered from their sins but instead be left in them.

You have touched well on the underlying thought I have. All unbelief is sin, therefore unbelief, if not replaced by belief and its consequent fruits, will not be forgiven. Do you agree?

 

[TedT]

So, in a very real sense, all sins committed by the non-elect, are unforgivable, are they not?

I contend that it is the person who is unforgivable. He is left in his sins because he is unforgivable by his sin of repudiating YHWH as a liar and a false god, restricting HIM from ever interfering with their choice and becoming enslaved to sin so they cannot even contemplate saving themselves.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I contend that it is the person who is unforgivable. He is left in his sins because he is unforgivable by his sin of repudiating YHWH as a liar and a false god, restricting HIM from ever interfering with their choice and becoming enslaved to sin so they cannot even contemplate saving themselves.

Do you believe that is uniformly true of every person who is completely and utterly ignorant of the person and work of Jesus Christ?

 

[TedT]

Do you believe that is uniformly true of every person who is completely and utterly ignorant of the person and work of Jesus Christ?

NOBODY is completely and utterly ignorant of the person and work of Jesus Christ! Everyone knows the truth but live the lie because they love sin more...Romans 1:18-20 to the end.

 

[bbbbbbb]

NOBODY is completely and utterly ignorant of the person and work of Jesus Christ? Everyone knows the truth but live the lie because they love sin more...Romans 1:18-20 to the end.

You need to get out more. Why don't you take a trip with me to VietNam and I will personally introduce you to some of these folks? They do not have the slightest tidbit of information regarding Christianity.