The Unforgiveable Sins

[Neogaia777]

Jesus is not the Holy Spirit, as in the passage about commiting that blasphemy, it specifically says that anything spoken against Jesus will be forgiven men by Jesus, etc.

The Holy Spirit is God the Spirit in the OT, but who dwells in us now, etc.

God Bless!

 

[bbbbbbb]

That was a sin that the nation of Israel committed, the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, was not an individual sin committed by people. When the nation of Israel rejected Jesus as the promised Messiah on the basis of doing His miracles by the power of Beelzebub. The nation committed the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. The pages i am posting below go into detail on this unique sin (excuse the underlining)

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Thank you. Interestingly, Jesus phrased his statement in the third person individual case and in the present tense. It is not unreasonable IMO to perceive it as applying to individuals and not to a body of individuals and to not be limited in time.

 

[TedT]

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Those who are not HIS sheep are condemned already by their free will decision to be outside of HIS mercy and grace, not by HIS turning from HIS patience which could save them.

How is that different from my point?

Your point: GOD condemned them for taking too long to repent but until that time they were all saveable.

My point: They condemned themselves against GOD's will by rejecting HIS deity and the promise of salvation found in the Son from which there is no recovery. It is out of his hands; HE cannot save them.

They chose to reject HIM by their free will, cutting themselves off from all hope of salvation. HE does not choose to reject any who can be saved by HIS patience.

Only the unforgivable are not forgiven.
Those that can be forgiven will be forgiven and made holy no matter how long it takes.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Those that can be forgiven will be forgiven and made holy no matter how long it takes.

How long might that be? And, what does it take to become unforgivable?

 

[TedT]

How long might that be? And, what does it take to become unforgivable?

The being forgiven part was finished and set the moment the person was made elect and came under the promise of salvation. The cross could have happened anytime to fulfill that part of the promise of election.

The making the elect sinner holy is what is taking so long but each sinful good seed or sheep gone astray into sin is sown into the world to be sanctified and made holy within his lifetime which has been predetermined to perfectly bring him to holiness in his lifetime the best way possible.

 

[bbbbbbb]

The being forgiven part was finished and set the moment the person was made elect and came under the promise of salvation. The cross could have happened anytime to fulfill that part of the promise of election.

The making the elect sinner holy is what is taking so long but each sinful good seed or sheep gone astray into sin is sown into the world to be sanctified and made holy within his lifetime which has been predetermined to perfectly bring him to holiness in his lifetime the best way possible.

In that scenario, is it not true that whatever sin the non-elect commit, is, by definition, unforgivable simple because they are non-elect?

 

[Sabertooth]

Your point: GOD condemned them for taking too long to repent but until that time they were all saveable.

Untrue.
I said,
"If they don't get Saved before they die,

they can't get Saved after they die."​

Deathbed conversions are the former, not the latter.

 

[d taylor]

Thank you. Interestingly, Jesus phrased his statement in the third person individual case and in the present tense. It is not unreasonable IMO to perceive it as applying to individuals and not to a body of individuals and to not be limited in time.

So how does this work with Jesus offering he Kingdom to Israel. So you believe that Jesus is now currently offering the Kingdom each day and that people are now attributing miracles that Jesus may be doing now, to the work of demons.

 

[d taylor]

Actually, zero is an option on the poll. Anyone can choose as many items on the list, including zero, or all.

Out of curiosity, why do you think Jesus talked about blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as being an unforgivable sin if, indeed, it is forgivable?

I still do not see how a person can select zero, your list below and i do not see a zero choice.

1. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
2. Not believing in the name of the Son of God, Jesus Christ
3. Homosexuality
4. Adultery
5. Lying
6. Divorce and remarriage while the original spouse is still alive
7. Remarriage
8. Murder
9. Suicide
10. Sabbath-breaking

 

[bbbbbbb]

I still do not see how a person can select zero, your list below and i do not see a zero choice.

1. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
2. Not believing in the name of the Son of God, Jesus Christ
3. Homosexuality
4. Adultery
5. Lying
6. Divorce and remarriage while the original spouse is still alive
7. Remarriage
8. Murder
9. Suicide
10. Sabbath-breaking

Very simply. Don't click on any of the choices. You do not need to register a choice if you do not want to.

 

[TedT]

In that scenario, is it not true that whatever sin the non-elect commit, is, by definition, unforgivable simple because they are non-elect?

Not at all, the ordinary sins in life are not unforgivable because ALL SIN has an equal and ultimate disvalue before GOD - it is the people that are treated differently based upon their self chosen free will relationship with HIM. It is their chosen relationship against HIM that is unforgivable, not the sins themselves or the sins of the elect would be unforgivable also.

This also misses the point that they chose to be non-elect knowing what YHWH claimed would be the legal and natural consequences by choosing as their first sin to reject HIM as a liar and therefore a false god driven by a sinful desire to be worshiped.

Your cart before the horse suggestion implies their lack of responsibility in their being passed over for election which is totally opposite my contention.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, you read it right. This thread is a discussion of the unforgiveable sins which God will not forgive and which will keep people from entering heaven. Typically, the discussion revolves around the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus stated was the only sin which God cannot forgive. Various definitions of what that means in actuality have been discussed ad infinitum and if you wish to discuss it further, please feel free to do so.

The reality is that there are multitudes, probably the majority of humanity who have ever lived, who have never blasphemed the Holy Spirit and probably are oblivious to the existence of the Holy Spirit yet who will be prevented from entering heaven, which means that God has not forgiven their sin(s).

As the poll reveals, there are many sins (the poll lists only a dozen possibilities) which fall into this category. Various Christians and denominations have held various views on these sins and you are free to include as many or as few on your list as you choose.

I don’t see this option but I believe the unbelievable sin is to never accept Christ. I believe a person can repent of all those that are listed and be saved.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes, you read it right. This thread is a discussion of the unforgiveable sins which God will not forgive and which will keep people from entering heaven. Typically, the discussion revolves around the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which Jesus stated was the only sin which God cannot forgive. Various definitions of what that means in actuality have been discussed ad infinitum and if you wish to discuss it further, please feel free to do so.

The reality is that there are multitudes, probably the majority of humanity who have ever lived, who have never blasphemed the Holy Spirit and probably are oblivious to the existence of the Holy Spirit yet who will be prevented from entering heaven, which means that God has not forgiven their sin(s).

As the poll reveals, there are many sins (the poll lists only a dozen possibilities) which fall into this category. Various Christians and denominations have held various views on these sins and you are free to include as many or as few on your list as you choose.

Another possible choice I’ve seen before is attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to satan. But personally I don’t believe that was Christ’s intention.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Not at all, the ordinary sins in life are not unforgivable because ALL SIN has an equal and ultimate disvalue before GOD - it is the people that are treated differently based upon their self chosen free will relationship with HIM. It is their chosen relationship against HIM that is unforgivable, not the sins themselves or the sins of the elect would be unforgivable also.

This also misses the point that they chose to be non-elect knowing what YHWH claimed would be the legal and natural consequences by choosing as their first sin to reject HIM as a liar and therefore a false god driven by a sinful desire to be worshiped.

Your cart before the horse suggestion implies their lack of responsibility in their being passed over for election which is totally opposite my contention.

What do you make of the multitudes of people who have not knowingly rejected a relationship with God simply because they are utterly and completely ignorant of anything and everything related to Jesus Christ? These include numberless people who will and have never even heard the name of Jesus Christ, those people who have died prematurely as miscarriages or abortions, people who die in their infancy, and imbeciles and other morons who lack the intellectual capacity to make any faith decision.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I don’t see this option but I believe the unbelievable sin is to never accept Christ. I believe a person can repent of all those that are listed and be saved.

That would be the second choice on the list.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Another possible choice I’ve seen before is attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to satan. But personally I don’t believe that was Christ’s intention.

Although many hold that view, I personally do not believe that the text supports it.

 

[TedT]

Untrue.
I said,
"If they don't get Saved before they die,

they can't get Saved after they die."​

Deathbed conversions are the former, not the latter.

Your actual quote does support this rephrasing:

With, at least, one possible exception, Salvation is a limited-time offer. Refusing to accept it before death means that one's sin is no longer forgivable.

I contend that since by being passed over for election they are already condemned and their earthly sins make no difference nor does their best attempt at choosing a right course. This is my intent for post #31...

 

[bbbbbbb]

Your actual quote does support this rephrasing:


I contend that since by being passed over for election they are already condemned and their earthly sins make no difference nor does their best attempt at choosing a right course. This is my intent for post #31...

So, in a very real sense, all sins committed by the non-elect, are unforgivable, are they not?

 

[TedT]

Another possible choice I’ve seen before is attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to satan. But personally I don’t believe that was Christ’s intention.

Or rather, they attribute the creation of evil to GOD HIMself (not to the free will rejection of HIM by HIS creation...) implying that some of HIS decisions were therefore evil and therefore called Satanic though not authored by Satan.

Much the same, really, sigh.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Or rather, they attribute the creation of evil to GOD HIMself (not to the free will rejection of HIM by HIS creation...) implying that some of HIS decisions were therefore evil and therefore called Satanic though not authored by Satan.

Much the same, really, sigh.

Well I don’t see any evidence of that in the context of the chapter.