Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
In the same way Moses was instructed by The Lord("strike the rock"), so will it be with The Two Witnesses." Are not my words like fire" The" Fire" is The Lord's, and what they will do or not do is The Lord's. All Honor Glory and Praise belong to The Lord, and The Lord alone. "And My Glory I give to no other" And yet He will be Glorified through them, and others during this time.The subject of the 2 witnesses has remained such a mystery, but not because it is this intricate puzzle that needs to be articulately assembled. It is actually very simple, yet has remained a mystery because it has been veiled. 3 messages that have been hidden in scripture for more than 2500 years.
Understanding the olive branch:
Paul speaks to the Gentiles
Romans 11:17
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [j]rich root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then,“Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off.
Above you see that some branches (Jews) were broken off from the holy tree for their unbelief. Then in their place Gentiles or wild olives/or olive trees were grafted in among them. We can understand that a tree cannot be grafted in the place of a branch.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in; for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
Contextually we can see that only a branch can be cut out off of a wild olive tree. A tree can’t be cut out of a tree. Each person represents an individual branch.
What are 2 things we can we gather from Romans 11:16-25
#1 there are not 2 olive trees that will be saved. There is no Jewish and Gentile Church described here. You are either grafted into the “Jewish olive tree”, as a spiritual descendant of Abraham, or you will be judged as an individual branch on the wild olive tree.
#2 a branch represents an individual person. If a Gentile believes in the Lord Jesus, he is a branch broken off his wild olive tree , and grafted into the holy Jewish tree…a spiritual descendant of Abraham.
Once again, we must understand that there are not a Jewish Church and a Gentile Church. If we Gentiles are saved, We are spiritual descendants of Abraham…period. You are either grafted into that natural (holy Jewish) olive tree, or you stay on the wild olive tree and will be judged however the Lord judges you. This is the symbolism Paul explains in Romans 11.
The 2 witnesses are 2 olive branches (2 individuals) and likely 2 Gentiles.
In Zechariah 4:14 it is a clear match to Revelation 11:4. The 2 olive branches (individual believers) are the 2 “Sons of oil” that Stand before the Lord of all the earth.
Another thing lost in most English translations is that it doesn’t actually translate as “2 anointed ones” it translates as “2 sons of oil”
Darby translates closer to what Hebrew means
Zechariah 4:12-14
12And I answered again, and said to him: What are the two olive branches, that are by the two golden beaks, in which are the funnels of gold? 13And he spoke to me, saying: Knowest thou not what these are? And I said: No, my lord. 14And he said: These are two sons of oil who stand before the Lord of the whole earth.
If you research, this it is easily found. Just look at the footnotes for the verse. The 2 olive branches are the 2 sons of oil, and are 2 Gentiles, as we can conclude from Romans 11:16-25
The truth is we don’t know if Zechariah saw olives or olive trees. The immediate translation for the word זֵיתִ֖ים in Zechariah 4:3 is olives. In the immediate context olive trees makes more sense, but having a peculiar familiarity with this subject, I believe it is olives on branches only. Similar to what the National emblem of Israel shows.
israeilj national emblem - Google Search
View attachment 327378
https://www.amazon.com/Olives-Garli...keywords=israeli+olives&qid=1675262030&sr=8-5
Above is a can of olives, not a can of olive trees. The first word on the right is olives. זֵיתִ֖ים
The Latin vulgate says olives
The Reina Valera (old one) says olives
Wycliffe Bible says olives
Zechariah 4:2-3
2 And he seide to me, What seest thou? And Y seide, Y saiy, and lo! a candilstike al of gold, and the laumpe therof on the heed therof, and seuene lanternes therof on it, and seuene vessels for to holde oyle to the lanternes, that weren on the heed therof.
3 And twei olyues there onne, oon of the riythalf `of the laumpe, and `an other on the left half therof.
11 And Y answeride, and seide to hym, What ben these tweyne olyues on the riythalf of the candilstike, and at the lift-half therof?
12 And Y answeryde the secounde tyme, and seide to hym, What ben the tweyne eeris, ether ripe fruyt, of olyues, that ben bisidis the twei bilis of gold, in whiche ben oile vesselis of gold?
13 And he seide to me, and spak, Whether thou woost not what ben these thingis?
14 And Y seide, No, my lord. And he seide, These ben twei sones of oile of schynyng, whiche stonden nyy to the lordli gouernour of al erthe.
And Revelation 11:3-4
3 And Y schal yyue `to my twey witnessis, and thei schulen prophesie a thousynde daies two hundrid and sixti, and schulen be clothid with sackis.
4 These ben tweyne olyues, and twei candilstikis, and thei stonden in the siyt of the Lord of the erthe.
Whether it is olive trees or olives in Revelation 11:4 is really a moot issue. The truth is, that is just a reference back to Zechariah 4:
Zechariah 4 is the first biblical message to 1 of the 2 witnesses. Nothing in Zechariah 4 occurred during the second temple era, aside from Zechariah receiving and recording the message. I know you’ve heard what’s passed down and perhaps what commentary’s bring but I come with a different perspective
Another thing added in translation is in Revelation 11:3
Revelation 11:3 Greek Text Analysis
The word power is not in that verse. It just isn’t there. It is
“And I will give my 2 witnesses” or “and I will give unto my 2 witnesses” the former obviously makes more sense.
“And I will give my 2 witnesses”
I will give power unto my two witnesses-two candlesticks-, and they shall prophesy...these have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy(now is the time of GOD's Judgment, not evangelization): and they have power over waters(over peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues) to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Now, now, the plagues against all nations have already begun, and also GOD's indignation and WRATH, upon all the nations there will be only and only strong punishments, only and only tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that does evil, not only of the Gentile, but also of the Jewish people.
The Judgment shall sit, and the Kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the Kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
The Kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. The nations will be angry, and GOD's WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that GOD should give reward unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear His name, small and great; and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth. Without are dogs(dogs? Isaiah 56:10-12), and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Who is worthy to reach the next world - the Kingdom of GOD, Luke 20:35-36 - that shall be established in this current millennium by the Power of the Word of GOD? The Word is GOD and is selfexecuting.
Nice try, but:Excellent post. John Apostle in his 3rd epistle said unto the wellbeloved Gaius: "v.4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in Truth. --> I believe you seek to do the same as our ancient brother Gaius of the primitive Church of the Lord, from whom John give us a wonderful testimony.
To confirm what you said, I would like to post a message posted in another site according your interpretation above. Here goes: About Revelation 12: 14-17: -
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (1260 days or three years and half-42months), from the face of the serpent. The TWO WINGS OF GREAT EAGLE are the Old and New Testaments-the Word of GOD - and the Word is GOD; and GOD said: I will give Power unto my two witnesses (two Candlesticks-two Churches for now), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. (Why clothed in sackcloth? --> Because will be a time of great persecution by the Beast of sea first-Revelation 13:4-10- for 1260 days - three years and half-42 months - , it will be a similar fact as we can see in Esther 3:7 to 15 and 4:1 to 17. Chapters 5 to 10 is very important to read too).
These are the two olive trees(SOURCE OF OIL FOR THE TWO CANDLESTICKS), and the two candlesticks (TWO CHURCHES - JEWISH CHURCH AND GENTILE CHURCH - BOTH ARE IN ONE BODY OF CHRIST) standing before the God of the earth. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood(waters mean, peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues-Revelation 17:v.15) and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
And when they shall have finished their testimony(after 1260 days-the FIRST HALF OF THE LAST WEEK), the BEAST that ascendeth out of the BOTTOMLESS PIT(THE MAN BEAST OF THE EARTH LIKE A LAMB WITH TWO HORNS-i.e. TWO KINGDOMS-HE SPEAKS AS DRAGON-HE IS THE RED DRAGON, A FALSE MESSIAH, AN ESOTERIC, AND KABBALISTIC, AND SPIRITIST MESSIAH-JOHN 5:V.43-47 COMBINED WITH REVELATION 13:V.11-18) he shall make WAR against them(AGAINST THE TWO CHURCHES-THE BODY OF CHRIST), and shall OVERCOME THEM, and kill them -Revelation 9: v.1-3: - (THE CHURCH WILL BE COMPLETELY WITHOUT ACTION, NEUTRALIZED BY THE RED DRAGON, THE ANGEL OF ABYSS, ACTUALLY A FORMER CHERUB),
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw A STAR fall from heaven unto the earth: and to HIM(AND TO STAR) was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And HE(THE STAR) opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the SUN AND THE AIR WERE(WILL BE) DARKNED by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given Power, as the scorpions of the earth have Power. ---> verse 11- And they have a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddom.(HERE THE PERIOD OF THE 2ND HALF OF THE LAST WEEK) REVELATION 12:v.15-17 15 And the serpent -the red Dragon- cast out of his MOUTH water as a flood after the woman-THE CHURCH-, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. (was given unto him a MOUTH speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months). And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against GOD, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints.
16 And the earth-THE RESTAURED 12 TRIBES OF ISRFAEL-the 144K- helped(will help) the woman, and the earth(the restaured Israel-the 144K-12 tribes) opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the (red)Dragon-the Jewish false messiah- cast out of his MOUTH.
17 And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make WAR with the REMNANT of her seed, which keep the commandments of GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. - The testimony of JESUS is the Spirit of prophecy-Revelation 19:v.10 -
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. the Day 1335, the wonderful, and glorious, and indescribable Day 1335 - 75 days after the END of the 2nd half of the last week, the week 70th of Daniel 9:v.27. Yes, blessed is he. Amen
The War is against three unclean spirits like frogs, a satanic trinity. THREE UNCLEAN SPIRITS LIKE FROGS - WHY FROGS?
Similarity between the Red Sea and the Red Dragon. https://purebibleforum.com/index.ph...ng-by-the-red-sea-and-by-the-red-dragon.2439/
May our Lord GOD bless and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen
Nice try, but:
"And those who live on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who live on the earth (Rev. 11:10)."
I'd say this is pretty conclusive evidence. We've seen clear scripture which supports the candlestick, Olive Tree, Witnesses, and Prophets, are all used in scripture as representations of the Church. We've seen Biblical evidence that God uses the number two, and specifically, two witnesses, to illustrate a confirmation of that which is true. It is the true Church of God that is sent forth with power to witness in truth (as the 12 Apostles were sent out two by two). By contrast, there are no scriptures which say that the olive tree is Moses, or that it is Elijah, or that candlesticks symbolize enoch or the two covenants. That fact alone means that such personal interpretations are purely speculation by some theologians. In other words, it is not something which is actually declared, or which stands upon solid scripture.Olive tree = Church (Romans 11)
Candlestick = Church (Revelation 1)
Witnesses = Church (Acts 1)
Prophets = Church (Rev 1)
Thanks by your reply. Yes, but these are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. The testimony of the two candlesticks will really torment those who live on the earth, but more precisely in the country from where will rise up the Man Beast of the earth, who has two horns(represent two kingdoms) like a lamb (actually a false lamb, a false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist false messiah), and he spake as a dragon.Nice try, but:
"And those who live on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who live on the earth (Rev. 11:10)."
According to the Bible, a beast is a kingdom (Dan. 7:23) and a horn is a king (Rev. 17:12), not a kingdom. And the two olive trees and two lampstands are two prophets (Rev. 11:10).Thanks by your reply. Yes, but these are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. The testimony of the two candlesticks will really torment those who live on the earth, but more precisely in the country from where will rise up the Man Beast of the earth, who has two horns(represent two kingdoms) like a lamb (actually a false lamb, a false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist false messiah), and he spake as a dragon.
But the two olive trees -the Old and New Testaments - are the source of oil -the Holy Spirit, and God of the earth - and the two candlesticks will receive power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy((now is the time of GOD's Judgment, not evangelization):: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony(in the first half of the last week, week 70th Daniel 9:27), the (MAN) Beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them(against the two candlesticks), and shall overcome them, and (will) kill them. How? Well, he had (will have) power to give life unto the image of the Beast, that the image of the Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the Beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the Beast, or the number of his name. THESE THINGS OR SATANIC EVENTS MUST HAPPEN IN THIS CURRENT DECADE - 2020 - 2030.
Get ready
"And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; and so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire (Rev. 11:3–6).
Two olive trees = the two anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth (Zec. 4:14)
Two lampstands = two churches (Rev. 1:20)
Fire = light, truth, etc.
Avraham & Sarah's arrival in Jerusalem: February 25, 2022
The start of Avraham & Sarah's prophesying in Jerusalem: February 28, 2022
Avraham & Sarah prophesy no rain in Jerusalem: July 21, 2022
No rain in Jerusalem since: March 25, 2022
Jerusalem March 2022 Historical Weather Data (Israel) - Weather Spark
First case of monkeypox in US: May 18, 2022
A Massachusetts Man Is Infected With Monkeypox
Sorry, I think that what you posted is a little evasive, but leave it there, why to waste time trying to guess and speculate and write lies, isn't it?According to the Bible, a beast is a kingdom (Dan. 7:23) and a horn is a king (Rev. 17:12), not a kingdom. And the two olive trees and two lampstands are two prophets (Rev. 11:10).
The two witnesses are Not in Jerusalem yet. Revelation chapter 11, the two witnesses have 10 days preparations before antichrist arrives 6th trump. The one world political system of revelation chapter 13 will receive deadly wound near future. Satan as antichrist will heal deadly wound. At the 6th trump, it's a religious one world system. Its 5 month period, revelation chapter 9:5 to document. The two witnesses will arrive near future in Jerusalem. The time of the locust is may to September. The locust army is antichrist and fallen angels.
Speaking of mysteries, what matters and prevails is the Scriptures, the Word of GOD - the Word is GOD-John 1:1. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of GOD is greater-1John 5:9.Some Orthodox Christian prophecies mention that Elijah and Enoch are the two witnesses and will preach in the days of the antichrist. The antichrist will eventually catch them and behead them. My understanding is that Elijah and Enoch might have not died physically, but were taken up to heaven remaining in an existential sphere higher than the earth.
An Orthodox article: Two Witnesses (Rev 11:1 - 14) - Questions & Answers
Good PostSpeaking of mysteries, what matters and prevails is the Scriptures, the Word of GOD - the Word is GOD-John 1:1. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of GOD is greater-1John 5:9.
What GOD testifies - the Word is GOD - is that the two OLIVE TREES are SOURCES of OIL, yeah, SOURCES OF OIL for the TWO candlesticks -the two Churches: 1) the Jewish Church and 2) the Gentile Church.
GOD the Father, said by His angel to Zechariah: - Zechariah 4:12 & 14:
12 - What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth (Revelation 11:4 confirms Zechariah 4.)
In other words, both are the two sons of oil: JESUS and the Holy Spirit. 1John 5:7 says: There are THREE that bear record/testify in heaven-GREAT MYSTERY:
1) the Father-GOD the Father, the Word ;
2) the Word-the Word made flesh-JESUS-He has genealogy ; and
3) the Holy Spirit -unknown because has no genealogy - only he knows his written name -;
and these three are One.
JESUS said: Matthew 11:27 - ... no MAN knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any MAN the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.
The TWO OLIVE TREES ARE the Persons of JESUS, the Word made flesh,
and of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete or the Counselor, whom JESUS sent unto us from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father-John 15:26,
they both are the TWO OLIVE TREES and the SOURCES of OIL for the ANOINTMENT of the two Churches. JESUS said: I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman-John 15:v.1.
Good Post
Rev.1:4John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from him who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits that are before his throne; 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loveth us, and loosed us from our sins by his blood; 6and he made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7Behold, he cometh with the clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they that pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth shall mourn over him. Even so, Amen.
and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness the firstborn of the dead,
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.(2Cor.5:17).
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?