• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.
  7. There has been an addition to the announcement regarding unacceptable nick names. The phrase "Let's go Brandon" actually stands for a profanity and will be seen as a violation of the profanity rule in the future.

The two step process of end times Eventism

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Douggg, Feb 27, 2021.

  1. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    To understand the end times, it is two step process.

    step 1. Go through the bible and find all of the time expressions found associated with the end times, time of the end. And the events associated with each. Assemble those as being in either the first half of the 7 years, or second half of the seven years.

    The time expressions are found in two books of the bible. Daniel and Revelation.

    step 2. Determine the functional roles the arch-villain of the end times goes through. And then integrate him into the timeline developed from step one.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. grafted branch

    grafted branch Well-Known Member Supporter

    622
    +122
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Would you say that every 3.5 year period in Revelation and Daniel must fit into either the first half or second half of the final seven year period? Or is it possible that some of the 3.5 year periods happen during some of the other 7 year periods?

    For instance in Revelation 12:6 the woman fled into the wilderness for 1,260 days. Couldn’t this be Mary’s flight into Egypt in Matthew 2:13-15?
     
  3. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The 3 1/2 years is a term coming from bible commentators, who have made a mistake in not realizing that the 42 months, and the time/times/half are not "exact" equivalents to 3 1/2 years or the 1260 days.

    The terms in Revelation and Daniel are the time/times/half time ; the 1260 days; the 42 months; the 3 1/2 days; the 2300 days; the one week (Daniel 9:27).

    _______________________________________________________

    Regarding the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 is the first half of the 7 years in Revelation 12.

    Mary is not the woman in the first five verses of Revelation 12. The woman represents Israel. Unto us a child is born.

    Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

    The woman thus in Revelation 12:6 and the rest of Revelation 12 is Israel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
  4. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,144
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    It is obvious from the time periods given, that our year will be shortened to 360 days after the Lord's Day of fiery wrath. This slowing of the earths orbit around the sun, can be explained by the effects of that terrible Day. Isaiah 13:13

    Still trying to shoehorn the 2300 evenings and mornings is somewhere?
    It is plainly evident that those 1150 actual days, were the time between the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus 4 E and its rededication in 167 to 164 BC.
    Revelation never mentions the seven year treaty between the Lord's people and the Leader of the OWG. Daniel 9:27
    All the references to 1260 days, 32 months and 3 1/2 years in Revelation, refer to the final half of that 'week'. The first half will be peaceful, as the treaty holds; so isn't mentioned.
     
  5. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    It is plainly evident that Antiochus was not the time of the end little horn.

    upload_2021-2-28_3-15-57.png
     
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The components of the 7 year 70 week of Daniel 9:27 are in Revelation.

    Confirmation of the covenant for 7 years is not a peace treaty. The requirement to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant is in the bible in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.
     
  7. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Revelation 12. The sequence of the text is 1260 days, then a war in heaven (the second heaven), then Satan cast down to earth having a time/times/half times left. Those three segments total the 7 years.
     
  8. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,144
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    I never said A4E was the 'little horn'. He was the prophetic preview of another powerful man, yet to come. Daniel 7:23-27
    The New Covenant the Lord will make with His Christian peoples, will be everlasting. There is no 7 year 'covenant' only a treaty of peace between the leader of the OWG and the new inhabitants of the holy Land.

    I repeat: the only part of the final 7 years, the 70th 'week' of Daniel 9:26-27, in Revelation is the final half - 3 1/2 years, then Jesus Returns.
    Zechariah 14:1-2 also mentions that final half.
    Go back to school. Learn to do simple addition.
    Revelation 12:6 and 14, are both about the same thing; the faithful people being kept safe from the Great Trib of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, the final 3 1/2 years of this age.
     
  9. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    They are not the same thing. One is 1260 days, the other is the time/times/half time.
     
  10. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,144
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    Did you look up Isaiah 13:13? Here it is, read it:
    Then I shall make the heavens shudder and the earth will move from its place, by the wrath of the Lord of Hosts, in the Day of His fierce anger.

    We know from ancient calendars; that the year was 360 days. Maybe it changed to 365 days when the Lord made time reverse for a while for King Hezekiah.
    So the Day of the Lord will again change time for us, making the times of 1260 days, 42 months and 3 1/2 years, identical; as given in Daniel and Revelation, - to fit exactly in the final period of this age.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    The timeframe expressions are different, not because of a 365 days year. The time frame expressions are different because there are events that take place after the 1260 days that results in something less than 1260 days left in the seven years.
     
  12. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,144
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    So the earth being shaken from its place at the Sixth Seal event, isn't of any significance?

    Your attempts to make the Bible say and mean something other than what is plainly stated, are all wrong and just confusing.
     
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    Of course the sixth seal event is unmatched by anything before it. But it is at the end of the 7 years, which gives cause for the nations to assemble their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,625
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    I made a video on the time expressions back in January...

     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

    +2,144
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
    Married
    The Sixth seal is NOT at the end of the final seven years. It isn't even at the beginning of it, just a few years before the treaty is signed; Daniel 9:27
    Your private interpretation of the timings in the end times is error and contradicts what the Bible says.
    There will be 1260 days of the Great Tribulation, preceded by 1260 days of peace. Total of seven 360 day years.
    Then the extra 30 and 73 days follow; after Jesus Returns. Daniel 12:1-12
     
  16. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

    +1,541
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
    6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.


    Assuming verse 6 is being applied to the period of time in verse 4 rather than verse 5, shouldn't verse 6 really be verse 5, and verse 5 verse 6? Like such.

    Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
    5 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
    6 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    That aside, how are you determining from Matthew 2:13-15 that that involved exactly 1260 days?
     
  17. grafted branch

    grafted branch Well-Known Member Supporter

    622
    +122
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I think the order is correct, in verse 4 the dragon stands before the woman who is about to deliver, in verse 5 the woman gives birth to the man child, and in verse 6 the woman flees into the wilderness. This is very similar to Herod's actions and Mary’s response at the time of Christ’s birth.
    I’m not suggesting that we can know how long Mary’s flight in Egypt was; my point is that there could very well be other 3.5 year periods that are not in the final 7 year period.

    Even if someone thinks the woman’s flight in Revelation 12 is still future, the similarities to Mary’s flight shouldn’t be ignored. As you well know the Bible has many types, shadows, figures, and patterns.
     
  18. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

    +1,541
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    What I was mainly focusing on in verse 5 was this part---and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne---being the reason for suggesting rearranging the order for it to possibly fit your proposal. That part didn't happen in the beginning of Christ's life, that event happened after Christ died then resurrected. I take it to mean His ascension back into heaven. What is in question then, when does the woman initially flee into the wilderness for 1260 days? During the events recorded in verse 4? Or after this event recorded in verse 5---and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne?
     
  19. grafted branch

    grafted branch Well-Known Member Supporter

    622
    +122
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I also think “was caught up” is in regards to Christ’s ascension. I think it is referring back to the statement “who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron”, YLT has “who is about to rule”. I would say his ruling is future to the man child being brought forth and his being caught up is meant as prior to his ruling.

    In the KJV the word “was” in the phrase “who was to rule”, is Strong’s #3195 mello. So Revelation 12:5 should not be interpreted as Christ is born and was caught up to God and ruled; I would say it should be read as Christ is born, he will rule soon (mello), and he will be caught up before he rules.
    After verse 5
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +7,116
    Christian
    Married

    Who is the woman in the passage below?

    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    Based on the genealogies in the New Testament, can Mary be separated from Israel?

    The Genealogy of Jesus Christ

    Mat 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
    Mat 1:2 Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
    Mat 1:3 And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
    Mat 1:4 And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
    Mat 1:5 And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
    Mat 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
    Mat 1:7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
    Mat 1:8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
    Mat 1:9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
    Mat 1:10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
    Mat 1:11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
    Mat 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
    Mat 1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
    Mat 1:14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
    Mat 1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
    Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

    .
     
Loading...