The Truth behind the Mask

[Caliban]

It is wise to take steps to protect the elderly, and those who are seriously ill.

That's literally what I am supporting--but, your actions will increase the spread of the virus, kill people, and ultimately destroy the economy worse than a shutdown.

You keep using the word wise--I'm not sure why. You have provided zero evidence for your wild claims that we need to end the safest practices of social distancing.

I have given you several reliable pieces of evidence (not from the media), and you have provided nothing but assertions. Where is the data supporting your position?

 

[anna ~ grace]

That's literally what I am supporting--but, your actions will increase the spread of the virus, kill people, and ultimately destroy the economy worse than a shutdown.

You keep using the word wise--I'm not sure why. You have provided zero evidence for your wild claims that we need to end the safest practices of social distancing.

I have given you several reliable pieces of evidence (not from the media), and you have provided nothing but assertions. Where is the data supporting your position?

I’m an “essential worker”, Caliban. I’ve seen this up close from the beginning.

 

[Caliban]

I’m an “essential worker”, Caliban. I’ve seen this up close from the beginning.

Great--I'm a teacher and my wife is a nurse. Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence. Maybe from science?

 

[JacksBratt]

That's right, people respond differently to ridicule. Thomas Jefferson wrote that,
“Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions.” I am not advocating making fun of someone or bullying them; I am addressing the idea that ridiculous ideas should not be treated as serious. The word ridicule come out of the word ridiculous and is the reason why comedians are usually so funny.


For example, it is foolish to debate a flat earther. It is better to lampoon his ideas and move on. I would be under no illusion that I will change his mind; however, an observer may see the joke, consider the absurdity of the flat earthers point, and reconsider the idea because of the comedic response of the one using ridicule. Ridicule is to for the debater, but for the audience.

OK, you used the FE as an example...

Let's look at some others... Evolution, Pre Trib Rapture, global warming, vegetarian diets, gun control, free health care, support of a certain politician..

There are numerous topics that can be controversial and even disregarded by masses of the population.

So, should people ridicule these topics in hopes that the audience will have no further association with the idea and put it out of their mind, due to the ridicule and massive assault on them for even considering it?

OR... should we let them test, observe, read and listen and form their own opinion?

As I said before... ridicule is for those that are weak, ignorant, have no support to argue the point and are thus threatened by the challenge to their view.

If flattery is the greatest form of complement.... Ridicule is the true sign of someone without and argument for their point.... or maybe the ability to present it maturely.

It is a form of bullying IMO.... The masses against the minority...

Just think of all the things that we would not have if people in our past cowered to ridicule.

 

[Caliban]

OK, you used the FE as an example...

Let's look at some others... Evolution, Pre Trib Rapture, global warming, vegetarian diets, gun control, free health care, support of a certain politician..

There are numerous topics that can be controversial and even disregarded by masses of the population.

So, should people ridicule these topics in hopes that the audience will have no further association with the idea and put it out of their mind, due to the ridicule and massive assault on them for even considering it?

OR... should we let them test, observe, read and listen and form their own opinion?

As I said before... ridicule is for those that are weak, ignorant, have no support to argue the point and are thus threatened by the challenge to their view.

If flattery is the greatest form of complement.... Ridicule is the true sign of someone without and argument for their point.... or maybe the ability to present it maturely.

It is a form of bullying IMO.... The masses against the minority...

Just think of all the things that we would not have if people in our past cowered to ridicule.

Comedic ridicule has its place in discourse whether you like it or not. You don't have to engage with it if you don't like being fun at parties.

 

[JacksBratt]

Comedic ridicule has its place in discourse whether you like it or not. You don't have to engage with it if you don't like being fun at parties.

Well, I was referring to your post shown below... Forgive me but where do you say anything about "comedic ridicule"?

On top of that, where does your ridicule of me "if you don't like being fun at parties"...

1/ have anything to do with the discussion or any relevance to my posts...and
2/ do anything to change my mind on this issue?

It is another form of bullying.. which I could care less about. It is a reflection on your character not mine.

Would it be fully acceptable for me, then, to ridicule you in return with something on the topic of you being a teacher and your view on ridicule? Or the content of your posts? Would that change your thinking?

Doubt it.

The people not wearing masks are not disagreeing with us, they are ignorant of science and the reasons wearing a mask is important. They put others lives at risk. They are being ridiculous; a bit of ridicule is good medicine.

 

[Caliban]

Well, I was referring to your post shown below... Forgive me but where do you say anything about "comedic ridicule"?

On top of that, where does your ridicule of me "if you don't like being fun at parties"...

1/ have anything to do with the discussion or any relevance to my posts...and
2/ do anything to change my mind on this issue?

It is another form of bullying.. which I could care less about. It is a reflection on your character not mine.

Would it be fully acceptable for me, then, to ridicule you in return with something on the topic of you being a teacher and your view on ridicule? Or the content of your posts? Would that change your thinking?

Doubt it.

Why are you so sensitive about this topic? Do you never enjoy comedians? All they ever do is ridicule idiotic ideas. Ridicule is comedy--it is pointing out the absurdity of a thing with pointed humor. If you think that is bullying--fine. Maybe you need a safe space or you could just avoid discussing it with someone who holds a different view.

 

[JacksBratt]

Why are you so sensitive about this topic? Do you never enjoy comedians? All they ever do is ridicule idiotic ideas. Ridicule is comedy--it is pointing out the absurdity of a thing with pointed humor. If you think that is bullying--fine. Maybe you need a safe space or you could just avoid discussing it with someone who holds a different view.

It's not the topic that I am sensitive about.

It's the whole idea that ridicule is a method of correction.

Yes, ridicule can be comedy. When I go to watch a comedian.. I expect it.

Your original post was not about comedy..

Ridicule can be humor.... it can also be abuse, insulting, bullying and used with the intent to shut someone up. That's what I have an issue with... not a sensitivity to.

Your statement above.."Maybe you need a safe space". Was that your attempt at humor?

Seriously, check out some of the conversations that I have had with many of the people here.. Then statement in regards to me being sensitive.... actually is humorous.

 

[Caliban]

It's not the topic that I am sensitive about.

It's the whole idea that ridicule is a method of correction.

Yes, ridicule can be comedy. When I go to watch a comedian.. I expect it.

Your original post was not about comedy..

Ridicule can be humor.... it can also be abuse, insulting, bullying and used with the intent to shut someone up. That's what I have an issue with... not a sensitivity to.

Your statement above.."Maybe you need a safe space". Was that your attempt at humor?

Seriously, check out some of the conversations that I have had with many of the people here.. Then statement in regards to me being sensitive.... actually is humorous.

The safe space comment was a cheap shot to show how absurd it is to suggest that ridicule isn't effective, funny, or often called for. I know you enjoy comedy--you're human. But, you have to know that it takes all kinds of rhetorical strategies to point out the impossibility and ridiculous nature of some ideas. For example, there is a meme floating around the internet about a flat-earther on FaceBook. It is a great example of the use of ridicule to make a point and expertly expose a goofy flaw in the poster's ideas.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

True. Mask-wearing is a cultic and ritualistic practice with the outward object of evincing submission to the state religion, which is satanism. Don't fall for it, don't collaborate in your own ruin.

 

[JM]

But did he make that rule for any surgical departments in hospitals?

Of course not. Surgical departments have real dangers.

 

[JM]

I don't think you actually understand skepticism. It is a process of epistemology. Besides, did you just want to insult me , because coming from a Christian, that's rich.

Sure I do and yes I did, and I know.

 

[BobRyan]

Of course not. Surgical departments have real dangers.

infectious diseases don't exist outside the hospital???

 

[Caliban]

Sure I do and yes I did, and I know.

Then what about my previous post did you think was employing poor skeptical tools?

Here was the statement I made:
"The people not wearing masks are not disagreeing with us, they are ignorant of science and the reasons wearing a mask is important. They put others lives at risk. They are being ridiculous; a bit of ridicule is good medicine."

 

[JacksBratt]

The safe space comment was a cheap shot to show how absurd it is to suggest that ridicule isn't effective, funny, or often called for. I know you enjoy comedy--you're human. But, you have to know that it takes all kinds of rhetorical strategies to point out the impossibility and ridiculous nature of some ideas. For example, there is a meme floating around the internet about a flat-earther on FaceBook. It is a great example of the use of ridicule to make a point and expertly expose a goofy flaw in the poster's ideas.
View attachment 281074

Funny, yes... Does it change the mind of anyone who believes in the flat earth? Or.. just funny?

I'm guessing that the FE crowd don't abandon their view based on ridicule..

I mean seriously.. Their flat earthers and your going to change their mind with ridicule????? Now that's funny.

 

[Caliban]

Funny, yes... Does it change the mind of anyone who believes in the flat earth? Or.. just funny?

Ridicule is rarely meant to change the opinion of your interlocutor; it is a tool to change the perspective of a bystander who when watching someone else's ideas get lambasted without themselves feeling personally attacked, is able to reconsider their ideas.

If I ridicule you--you will likely shut down and hold tighter to the ideas in question. If you hear me ridicule someone else's idea (which you hold) you are more likely to not feel personally attacked and be able to re-evaluate the idea. This happens all the time. Comedians are great at it. Ben Shapiro is great at it.

 

[JacksBratt]

Ridicule is rarely meant to change the opinion of your interlocutor; it is a tool to change the perspective of a bystander who when watching someone else's ideas get lambasted without themselves feeling personally attacked, is able to reconsider their ideas.

Well, now your moving the goal posts... You originally stated:

"They are being ridiculous; a bit of ridicule is good medicine."

Now it's for the bystander?

If I ridicule you--you will likely shut down and hold tighter to the ideas in question.

Nope.

If you ridicule me I will assume that you have no support for your argument.

People with solid support present facts.

Those who feel threatened and without backing.. .lash out with ridicule.

If you hear me ridicule someone else's idea (which you hold) you are more likely to not feel personally attacked and be able to re-evaluate the idea.

Wrong again.

If I hear you ridicule someone else.. I feel the same.. You have a weak argument and resort to ad hominid tactics.

This happens all the time. Comedians are great at it. Ben Shapiro is great at it.

If I go to a comedian.. I expect to hear everyone get ridiculed.. Not to change their mine.. but to make us realize that we all think differently and we might just as well laugh at ourselves.

Ben Shapiro simply ridicules people by presenting them with logic and facts that expose them as ignorant, brainwashed sheep.

Yes, Ben is a wealth of knowledge and logic and quickly recalls it and states it.

 

[Caliban]

Well, now your moving the goal posts... You originally stated:

"They are being ridiculous; a bit of ridicule is good medicine."

Now it's for the bystander?

I am not moving the goal post--it works both ways. I have had my mind changed because some one ridiculed an idea I thought was compelling--I changed my mind after I realized it was stupid. I have also benefitted from watching others have their ideas get ridiculed. This is not even controversial--I am surprised that so many here don't get this simple concept.

 

[mmksparbud]

Yeah, the head doc in my area said he wouldn't mandate masks unless, "hell freezes over." Choose your science and go with it.

Just google, or better yet use DuckDuckgo, and you'll see masks do not work. Two weeks ago the CDC website stated that masks do not work. Now they are saying they do.

Just remember 99.5% of the people that get it, get over it.

Not really---you're figures are way off. And of those that do recover, they are left with lingering damage that no one knows yet if it is permanent. There is brain damage months afterwards., difficulty walking and other neurological damage. Of course, these people will all demand that we pay to help support them after they get out of the hospital and still can't do anything ---even months later. We do not yet know the extent of the damage this thing does---we will. Those that do not wear masks are learning the hard way.

 

[JacksBratt]

I am not moving the goal post--it works both ways. I have had my mind changed because some one ridiculed an idea I thought was compelling--I changed my mind after I realized it was stupid.

This whole argument is stupid... Did you change your mind because the idea was ridiculed or because it was a stupid idea?

Facts could have proved that to you. Not the bullying of ridicule.

I have also benefitted from watching others have their ideas get ridiculed. This is not even controversial--I am surprised that so many here don't get this simple concept.

Well, I guess I'm not a "follower". I don't have my views changed by ridicule.. Never have.

I've always seen those that ridicule as defeated...

But. That's just me...

We think differently and doubtful that we'll change on this topic.

God bless...