The Truth about ERVs

[Ben West]

Where is the ERV evidence for these claims, being that ERV's are the topic.

Try this which explains where to find ERVs:
From: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2011/05/do_shared_ervs_support_common_046751.html
When we examine the collective genome of Homo sapiens, we find that a portion of it consists of ERVs (IHGS Consortium, 2001). We also find that humans share most of them with Chimpanzees, as well as the other members of Hominidae (great apes), the members of Hylobatidae (gibbons), and even the members of Cercopitheciodae (old world monkeys) (Kurdyukov et al., 2001; Lebedev et al., 2000; Medstrand and Mager, 1998; Anderssen et al., 1997; Steinhuber et al., 1995). Since humans don't and/or can't regularly procreate and have fertile offspring with members of these species, and thus don't make sizable contributions to their gene pools, and vice versa, their inheritance cannot have resulted from unions of modern species. As previously mentioned, parallel integration is ruled out by the highly random target selection of integrase. And even if it was far more target-specific than observed, it would require so many simultaneous insertion and endogenizations that the evolutionary model would still be tremendously more parsimonious. This leaves only one way an ERV could have been inherited: via sexual reproduction of organisms of a species that later diverged into the one the organisms that share the ERV belong to, i.e. an ancestral species--simply put, humans and the other primates must share common ancestry.

God tells us that Humans (descendants of Adam) married and produced children with the sons of God (prehistoric people) who were already here when Noah arrived, in order to produce today's Seven Billion Humans on Planet Earth today. Gen 6:4 Science has mistakenly classified the sons of God as Humans. (descendants of Adam) Occam's Razor. I will be happy to show you the implications of this verse if you would like. Amen?

 

[Loudmouth]

God tells us that Humans (descendants of Adam) married and produced children with the sons of God (prehistoric people) who were already here when Noah arrived, in order to produce today's Seven Billion Humans on Planet Earth today. Gen 6:4 Science has mistakenly classified the sons of God as Humans. (descendants of Adam) Occam's Razor. I will be happy to show you the implications of this verse if you would like. Amen?

Where is the ERV evidence for Adam and Noah?

 

[Ben West]

Where is the ERV evidence for Adam and Noah?

I didn't know that anyone was looking for it. After all, scientists don't believe the Bible so they ignore the Truthful answer in a wild pursuit to confirm their False Theories. Not knowing that a Human was made BEFORE any other creature, Gen 2:4-7 they TRY to support their incomplete untrue Theory of Evolution. If they would study Genesis, they would see that Adam lived and died in another Heaven within our Multiverse and never took a single step on our Earth.

 

[Loudmouth]

I didn't know that anyone was looking for it. After all, scientists don't believe the Bible so they ignore the Truthful answer in a wild pursuit to confirm their False Theories. Not knowing that a Human was made BEFORE any other creature, Gen 2:4-7 they TRY to support their incomplete untrue Theory of Evolution. If they would study Genesis, they would see that Adam lived and died in another Heaven within our Multiverse and never took a single step on our Earth.

Your claims are completely off topic unless you can show how they are supported by the ERV evidence. You need something more than stories in books for evidence.

 

[Ben West]

Your claims are completely off topic unless you can show how they are supported by the ERV evidence. You need something more than stories in books for evidence.

I'm just a man who studies God's Holy Word. I wouldn't know where to start to find an ERV. I've also noticed that you are not the arbiter of what is evidence and what is not evidence. God is. In the end, He wins. Amen?

 

[Loudmouth]

I'm just a man who studies God's Holy Word. I wouldn't know where to start to find an ERV. I've also noticed that you are not the arbiter of what is evidence and what is not evidence. God is. In the end, He wins. Amen?

Then why are you in a thread about ERV's?

Also, we are all arbiters of what evidence is. When all you have are stories in books, no one counts that as evidence. If it did count, then I would write a story about humans evolving and I would have slam dunk evidence for evolution, right?

 

[Ben West]

Then why are you in a thread about ERV's?

Also, we are all arbiters of what evidence is. When all you have are stories in books, no one counts that as evidence. If it did count, then I would write a story about humans evolving and I would have slam dunk evidence for evolution, right?

I show the AGREEMENT of Scripture Science and History. God told us thousands of years ago HOW we inherited the DNA and ERVs and everything else from the sons of God (prehistoric people who evolved from the water)....AND....HOW the sons of God (prehistoric people) changed from animal to Adam's Superior Intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 when Noah's grandsons married and produced children with the prehistoric people who were here in abundance 10k years ago. Gen 6:4 Humans ARE the descendants of Adam and prehistoric people who were on our Planet for Millions of years BEFORE Noah arrived. Amen?

Ancient man could NOT have known this so long ago therefore it's empirical evidence of God which can be studied and confirmed or denied. Amen?

 

[Loudmouth]

I show the AGREEMENT of Scripture Science and History.

No, you don't. You make stuff up and ignore all of the evidence.

God told us thousands of years ago HOW we inherited the DNA and ERVs and everything else from the sons of God (prehistoric people who evolved from the water)....AND....HOW the sons of God (prehistoric people) changed from animal to Adam's Superior Intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 when Noah's grandsons married and produced children with the prehistoric people who were here in abundance 10k years ago. Gen 6:4 Humans ARE the descendants of Adam and prehistoric people who were on our Planet for Millions of years BEFORE Noah arrived. Amen?

What does any of that have to do with the ERV evidence?

 

[Ben West]

No, you don't. You make stuff up and ignore all of the evidence.


What does any of that have to do with the ERV evidence?

False accusation since you have offered no rebuttal nor any proof that I make up stuff while ignoring the evidence. ERV evidence is genetic evidence which is found in Humans. The problem with it is that you CANNOT show us HOW it got inside Humans, since Humans arrived on this Planet only 10k years ago. http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html

Notice between Mt Ararat and the center of the Fertile Crescent is Lake Van, Turkey which makes a perfect place for God to place Adam's firmament which contained the 450 foot long Ark inside. The Lake is 75 miles wide and some 1500 feet deep and just SW of the Lake is Northern Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Human civilization on Planet Earth. Amen?

 

[Loudmouth]

False accusation since you have offered no rebuttal nor any proof that I make up stuff while ignoring the evidence.

Then show me evidence for the claims you are making. Not stories, but real evidence.

ERV evidence is genetic evidence which is found in Humans. The problem with it is that you CANNOT show us HOW it got inside Humans, since Humans arrived on this Planet only 10k years ago. http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html

False. The ERV evidence shows that they got into the genomes of our ancestors over the last 30+ million years. It shows that we are the end of a primate lineage that goes back to the common ancestor of all primates. Not 10k years. Millions of years.

Notice between Mt Ararat and the center of the Fertile Crescent is Lake Van, Turkey which makes a perfect place for God to place Adam's firmament which contained the 450 foot long Ark inside. The Lake is 75 miles wide and some 1500 feet deep and just SW of the Lake is Northern Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Human civilization on Planet Earth. Amen?

That is just a story. You have no evidence that there ever was an ark.

 

[Ben West]

↑
Ben:>>False accusation since you have offered no rebuttal nor any proof that I make up stuff while ignoring the evidence.

Then show me evidence for the claims you are making. Not stories, but real evidence.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html

False. The ERV evidence shows that they got into the genomes of our ancestors over the last 30+ million years. It shows that we are the end of a primate lineage that goes back to the common ancestor of all primates. Not 10k years. Millions of years.

I agree...BUT...you are confusing our prehistoric ancestors with Humans. The sons of God (prehistoric people) were NOT the descendants of Adam, the first Human. Adam was made long BEFORE Gen 2:4-7 the sons of God making it impossible that Humans could have possibly evolved from the common ancestor of Apes as the sons of God did. Human blood was contaminated because Noah's grandsons married some of the descendants of the sons of God (prehistoric people) and produced today's Humans. God told us this thousands of years ago in Gen 6:4.

Notice between Mt Ararat and the center of the Fertile Crescent is Lake Van, Turkey which makes a perfect place for God to place Adam's firmament which contained the 450 foot long Ark inside. The Lake is 75 miles wide and some 1500 feet deep and just SW of the Lake is Northern Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Human civilization on Planet Earth. Amen?

Loud:>>That is just a story. You have no evidence that there ever was an ark.

Then YOU explain HOW and WHEN prehistoric people changed from animal to Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 in the past 10k years. Amen?

 

[Loudmouth]

I agree...BUT...you are confusing our prehistoric ancestors with Humans. The sons of God (prehistoric people) were NOT the descendants of Adam, the first Human. Adam was made long BEFORE Gen 2:4-7 the sons of God making it impossible that Humans could have possibly evolved from the common ancestor of Apes as the sons of God did.

ERVs show otherwise. If we were birthed from Adam who did not share a common ancestor with chimps, or other primates. Therefore, Adam would have had a wildly different genome. There is no way that Adam could have even produced offspring with any primate. Baboons and real humans would have genomes more similar than humans and Adam.

That is your first hurdle.

Your second hurdle is that Adam would not have these ERV's. This means that we should have tons of examples of polymorphic ERV sites. That is, we should find tons of ERV's where one copy of your genome has the ERV and the other one doesn't. This should include highly conserved ERV's that are fixed in all other primates, such as HERV-W. This isn't the case. The ONLY insertional polymorphisms are for recently acquired HERV-K insertions, the one we would expect to see if evolution was true and your fantasies were made up.

That's two hurdles you need to get over.

 

[Ben West]

ERVs show otherwise. If we were birthed from Adam who did not share a common ancestor with chimps, or other primates. Therefore, Adam would have had a wildly different genome. There is no way that Adam could have even produced offspring with any primate. Baboons and real humans would have genomes more similar than humans and Adam.

That is your first hurdle.

Your second hurdle is that Adam would not have these ERV's. This means that we should have tons of examples of polymorphic ERV sites. That is, we should find tons of ERV's where one copy of your genome has the ERV and the other one doesn't. This should include highly conserved ERV's that are fixed in all other primates, such as HERV-W. This isn't the case. The ONLY insertional polymorphisms are for recently acquired HERV-K insertions, the one we would expect to see if evolution was true and your fantasies were made up.

That's two hurdles you need to get over.

The first hurdle is explained by the Scriptural Fact that Humans were made on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 (by Jesus) and every other living creature was made on the 5th Day by (God the Trinity). Gen 1:21 Now, do you understand the difference in "kinds", His (Jesus) kinds and Their (Trinity) kinds in Gen 1:25? IF you do, then you already know that these creatures could produce offspring with each other because God made them for each other.

The second hurdle is convoluted thinking caused by the inability to understand God's Truth. Do you also believe that ALL life was made on Planet Earth? God Bless you

 

[Loudmouth]

The first hurdle is explained by the Scriptural Fact that Humans were made on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 (by Jesus) and every other living creature was made on the 5th Day by (God the Trinity). Gen 1:21 Now, do you understand the difference in "kinds", His (Jesus) kinds and Their (Trinity) kinds in Gen 1:25? IF you do, then you already know that these creatures could produce offspring with each other because God made them for each other.

The second hurdle is convoluted thinking caused by the inability to understand God's Truth. Do you also believe that ALL life was made on Planet Earth? God Bless you

The evidence demonstrates that all life is descended from a universal common ancestor billions of years ago, not as separate kinds. Since Adam is not a product of these billions of years of evolution, then he won't have the same genome. That's a big problem.

The second hurdle you just ran away from. It is really simple genetics that I was taught in 6th grade. Ever hear of a Punnett square? Here is one for eye color:

You get two alleles, one from each parent. For genes like eye color, you can have dominant and recessive alleles.

Adam would not have ERV's since he was not descended from the common ancestor of chimps and humans, so he would not have those ERV alleles. If Adam has offspring with the descendants of that common ancestor, then the offspring will be heterozygous at all positions for those ERV's, like the Bb in the Punnett square above. That will be true for all of the offspring. This means that the current human population should have a distribution of polymorphisms at these positions in their genome. Some will tip towards fixation of the Adam allele. Some will tip towards fixation of the ERV. Others will stay near a 50/50 equilibrium between the alleles. This is what we should see, BUT WE DON'T. The science shows that your story is false.

 

[Ben West]

(1) The evidence demonstrates that all life is descended from a universal common ancestor billions of years ago, not as separate kinds. Since Adam is not a product of these billions of years of evolution, then he won't have the same genome. That's a big problem.

(2) The second hurdle you just ran away from. It is really simple genetics that I was taught in 6th grade. Ever hear of a Punnett square? Here is one for eye color:

You get two alleles, one from each parent. For genes like eye color, you can have dominant and recessive alleles.

Adam would not have ERV's since he was not descended from the common ancestor of chimps and humans, so he would not have those ERV alleles. If Adam has offspring with the descendants of that common ancestor, then the offspring will be heterozygous at all positions for those ERV's, like the Bb in the Punnett square above. That will be true for all of the offspring. This means that the current human population should have a distribution of polymorphisms at these positions in their genome. Some will tip towards fixation of the Adam allele. Some will tip towards fixation of the ERV. Others will stay near a 50/50 equilibrium between the alleles. This is what we should see, BUT WE DON'T. The science shows that your story is false.

(1) Do you seriously want us to believe that you can detect the difference in Humans and the sons of God (prehistoric people) ESPECIALLY since no one is looking for the difference? Show us your data from 10k years ago when Humans began to have children with prehistoric people on this Planet. Gen 6:4 IF someone noticed the difference, they would just write it off as coincidence because they would lose their job if they told everyone it came from the world of Adam instead of the present Earth. Amen?

(2) Adam never had ANY children with the descendants of the sons of God on this Planet. Noah's grandson Cush did and produced Nimrod who built the first Human cities on this Planet. Gen 10:10 Nimrod's mother was a prehistoric woman from our Planet and Noah's great grandsons had pure Human blood with NO ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes. The ERV difference would go unnoticed since Nimrod would have the SAME ERVs as his prehistoric mother AND his Human father who had NO ERVs of the common ancestor. Let's see your data from Northern Mesopotamia 10k years ago, which shows the introduction of Nimrod's mother's ERVs into the Human genome.

IF you had the data, you would see NO change in the alleles in Nimrod but instead a change in intelligence since Nimrod INHERITED Adam's Superior intelligence, from his father Cush, which is like God's. Gen 3:22 In like manner, ALL 7 billion humans alive today have inherited the invisible superior intelligence of Adam, the first Human. Below is empirical evidence of the change of prehistoric people into Humans, exactly where and when the Ark arrived on this Planet. http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html Can you refute the History of Human civilization on this Earth?

 

[Loudmouth]

(1) Do you seriously want us to believe that you can detect the difference in Humans and the sons of God (prehistoric people) ESPECIALLY since no one is looking for the difference?

I just showed you how you can detect them, and we are looking for the differences (or rather, have looked for the differences). It is called the HapMap project, and it has looked at genetic diversity within the human population. The variation that your supposed Adam would produce in the human population is not seen.

(2) Adam never had ANY children with the descendants of the sons of God on this Planet. Noah's grandson Cush did and produced Nimrod who built the first Human cities on this Planet. Gen 10:10 Nimrod's mother was a prehistoric woman from our Planet and Noah's great grandsons had pure Human blood with NO ERVs of the common ancestor of Apes. The ERV difference would go unnoticed since Nimrod would have the SAME ERVs as his prehistoric mother AND his Human father who had NO ERVs of the common ancestor.

It wouldn't go unnoticed. It would be observed as heterozygous ERV's in the modern population. We don't see individuals who are heterozygous for the majority of ERV's in the human genome which is what we should see if your story is true.

 

[Ben West]

I just showed you how you can detect them, and we are looking for the differences (or rather, have looked for the differences). It is called the HapMap project, and it has looked at genetic diversity within the human population. The variation that your supposed Adam would produce in the human population is not seen.

(2) It wouldn't go unnoticed. It would be observed as heterozygous ERV's in the modern population. We don't see individuals who are heterozygous for the majority of ERV's in the human genome which is what we should see if your story is true.

1. The HapMap project has drawbacks and here is the main one you didn't notice:

>>Although any two unrelated people share about 99.5% of their DNA sequence, their genomes differ at specific nucleotide locations. Such sites are known as single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), and each of the possible resulting gene forms is called an allele. The HapMap project focuses only on common SNPs, those where each allele occurs in at least 1% of the population.<<

Noah had 3 grandsons and 10k years ago, there were some 1 Million prehistoric people on this Planet. By the time the HapMap project could possibly detect the difference between Humans and prehistoric people, the Humans had been scattered to the entire Earth from Babel, making it impossible for the differences to be detected since it took a while for Humans to become detectable in the population according to the 1% limit.

2. HapMap is NOT looking at individuals but ONLY at the differences which occur in the alleles in at least 1% of the population. Your data is refuted because of the 1% limit. Try again?

 

[Loudmouth]

1. The HapMap project has drawbacks and here is the main one you didn't notice:

>>Although any two unrelated people share about 99.5% of their DNA sequence, their genomes differ at specific nucleotide locations. Such sites are known as single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), and each of the possible resulting gene forms is called an allele. The HapMap project focuses only on common SNPs, those where each allele occurs in at least 1% of the population.<<

Noah had 3 grandsons and 10k years ago, there were some 1 Million prehistoric people on this Planet.

You are claiming that we are all direct descendants of those grandsons, correct?

By the time the HapMap project could possibly detect the difference between Humans and prehistoric people, the Humans had been scattered to the entire Earth from Babel, making it impossible for the differences to be detected since it took a while for Humans to become detectable in the population according to the 1% limit.

2. HapMap is NOT looking at individuals but ONLY at the differences which occur in the alleles in at least 1% of the population. Your data is refuted because of the 1% limit. Try again?

They are directly comparing individuals. How else can you determine if an allele is greater than or less than 1% of the population?

Why don't we have any of the DNA from Noah's grandsons? Where did it go?

 

[Ben West]

(1) You are claiming that we are all direct descendants of those grandsons, correct?

(2) They are directly comparing individuals. How else can you determine if an allele is greater than or less than 1% of the population?

(3) Why don't we have any of the DNA from Noah's grandsons? Where did it go?

1. No. Today's Humans are a combination of the descendants of Adam (Noah's grandsons) AND the sons of God (prehistoric people). Prehistoric people had been on our Planet for 6 Million years AFTER they diverged from Chimps, BEFORE Noah arrived. Science has mistakenly classified the sons of God (prehistoric people) as Humans. (descendants of Adam) An entire industry has grown up Falsely teaching innocent children that they are nothing but animals.

Scientists have REJECTED God's Truth which shows that Adam's world was totally destroyed in the Flood, ll Peter 3:3-7 so they continue to add to their disgrace by TRYING to confirm the False Theory of Evolution.

(2) I've wondered HOW the LORD accomplished changing prehistoric people into Humans, without leaving a trail. Tell your scientist friends that they must dig deeper that a 1% change in the allele frequency over time in a population, in order to identify the time when Humans first arrived on this Planet of the common ancestor of Apes. Hint: It was about 10-12k years ago as this empirical historic evidence shows. http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html

(3) Humans do have the DNA of Noah's grandsons but it is too far below the 1% change which today's lazy scientists use. Tell them that they must work harder to find God's Truth. Amen?

Pro 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of Kings is to search out a matter.

 

[Loudmouth]

1. No. Today's Humans are a combination of the descendants of Adam (Noah's grandsons) AND the sons of God (prehistoric people).

Then that would actually be a yes. You are saying that we are all direct descendants of Noah's grandsons.

Prehistoric people had been on our Planet for 6 Million years AFTER they diverged from Chimps, BEFORE Noah arrived. Science has mistakenly classified the sons of God (prehistoric people) as Humans. (descendants of Adam) An entire industry has grown up Falsely teaching innocent children that they are nothing but animals.

Please show me the genetic evidence that backs this up.

Scientists have REJECTED God's Truth . . .

They are only rejecting your interpretation of stories written by men. You are not God.

I've wondered HOW the LORD accomplished changing prehistoric people into Humans, without leaving a trail. Tell your scientist friends that they must dig deeper that a 1% change in the allele frequency over time in a population, in order to identify the time when Humans first arrived on this Planet of the common ancestor of Apes. Hint: It was about 10-12k years ago as this empirical historic evidence shows. http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/map00-fc.html

What evidence are they ignoring?