The Trinity

[Christos Anesti]

You don't believe in the Trinity? How did you get a Christian icon if you don't believe in the Trinity? That is a central belief in Christianity.

The dogma of the Trinity doesn't say that God is composed of three parts. That would be a form of modalism. The Person of the Father eternally begots the Word and from Him proceeds the Holy Spirit. He shares with them his being and essence. The three Persons of the Trinity are not "parts" of God. Persons are not merely "parts" of an essence. Person (hypostasis) is primary.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The dogma of the Trinity doesn't say that God is composed of three parts. That would be a form of modalism. The Person of the Father eternally begots the Word and from Him proceeds the Holy Spirit. He shares with them his being and essence. The three Persons of the Trinity are not "parts" of God. Persons are not merely "parts" of an essence. Person (hypostasis) is primary.

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Gene 1:1 In beginning 'Elohiym created the heavens and the land.
2 And the land she-became chaos/vain and voided, and darkness over faces of deep.
And a spirit/breath of 'Elohiym vibrating/fluttering over surfaces of the waters

Genesis 2:7 And YHVH 'Elohiym is forming the 'adam with soil/dust/ from the ground, and He is blowing in nostrils of him breath of lives, and the 'adam is becoming to soul of living.

 

[Mikecpking]

You don't believe in the Trinity? How did you get a Christian icon if you don't believe in the Trinity? That is a central belief in Christianity.

Please stop stating nonsense! Of course I believe in the triunity of the Godhead

The core belief in the trinity

One God
3 persons, Father, Son and Holy spirit

Ok:
"And you shall love the Lord your God with all your [mind and] heart and with your entire being and with all your might."

How does that disprove the Trinity?

Sorry, I meant verse 4:

4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

It proves that God is one Lord. It is a core element as Christianity is a monotheistic faith. It seems like you believe in 3 Gods?

 

[Doveaman]

*bangs head against keyboard*

The Holy Spirit is as much a person as the Father and the Son. This is the Trinity, not a Dyad. I am astonished that this thread has been allowed to remain open in General Theology this long.

The OP seeks to offer a simple explanation of what he thinks the Trinity is, and I am sure not everyone agrees with his explanation. I am simply responding to the OP by offering my own explanation of what I think the Trinity is, and so are you, and we don't agree either. No big deal.

 

[Doveaman]

The Holy Spirit is God.

I never said it wasn't.

Nor did I.

 

[LutheranMafia]

The dogma of the Trinity doesn't say that God is composed of three parts. That would be a form of modalism. The Person of the Father eternally begots the Word and from Him proceeds the Holy Spirit. He shares with them his being and essence. The three Persons of the Trinity are not "parts" of God. Persons are not merely "parts" of an essence. Person (hypostasis) is primary.

Three persons in one being, thus each person is a part of the one being.

What are you objecting to? What you are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Doveaman]

Three persons in one being, thus each person is a part of the one being.

Three persons being a part of one being sounds like one being with three persons attached to him.

1 being + 3 persons = 4 persons/beings.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Three persons in one being, thus each person is a part of the one being.

What are you objecting to? What you are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

The confession that God is one being in three persons has never meant that each person is a constituent part of the one being, as though the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were each a third of God.

Believe that if you will, but don't pretend it's orthodox.

 

[laconicstudent]

Three persons in one being, thus each person is a part of the one being.

What are you objecting to? What you are saying doesn't make any sense to me.

So Jesus was just 33% of a person?

 

[Historicus]

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[Husky7]

l

 

[Aibrean]

Jesus is God, the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is not the Father, or the Holy Spirit. The Father is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit, etc...

They all share the divine essence. That doesn't mean they are the same.

 

[Doveaman]

Jesus is God, the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God. Jesus is not the Father, or the Holy Spirit. The Father is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit, etc...

Does this mean they are three Gods?

They all share the divine essence. That doesn't mean they are the same.

The Bible makes no mention of three beings sharing a divine essence. What is this divine essence you speak of, care to explain it?

 

[Aibrean]

It's clearly defined in the creed.

The three are all God, they all are of one divine substance. They are not all the same, they are three distinct persons.

i.e. "separate but equal"

There is one divine essence, which is called and which is truly God, and...there are three persons in the one divine essence, equal in power and alike eternal: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. All three are one divine essence, eternal, without division, without end, of infinite power, wisdom, and goodness, one creator and preserver of all things visible and invisible."

the "one substance" (or essence) is in the Nicene creed, depending on which version you are using (other versions say of one Being).

 

[Doveaman]

It's clearly defined in the creed.

The three are all God, they all are of one divine substance. They are not all the same, they are three distinct persons.

i.e. "separate but equal"

the "one substance" (or essence) is in the Nicene creed, depending on which version you are using (other versions say of one Being).

I am not interested in any version of of the Nicene Creed. I am interested in the version of the Holy Bible. Does the Holy Bible mention three God beings? And how does the Holy Bible describe this "essence" you speak of? What is it?

 

[Aibrean]

The Nicene Creed is the Statement of Faith for the Christian Forums. It has also been formed because it's in the Bible. There needed to be some semblance of a Christian's statement of faith that could be universal.

Yes the Bible mentions God in three forms. There are plenty of more places but I have to leave for work. It's throughout the Bible, everywhere. The Holy Spirit is in the Old Testament too.

Father is God:
2 Peter 1:16-18

We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

John 20:17

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

Jesus is God:
1 John 5:20

We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 1:18 (reading the whole of John 1:1-18 will help too)

No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

John 20:27-28

Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe." Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

When Jesus was in the desert and Satan was tempting him he said "Do not put the Lord your God to the test".

The Holy Spirit is God:
11 Corinthians 3:17

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

John 4:21-24

Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Galatians 4:6

Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."

Search the Bible for the "Spirit of God".

The divine "essence" or "substance" is the face that all three are God. The word substance or essence does not need to be written out - it's clearly obvious that they are all God. Yet, they are unique persons. (The Father is not Jesus, but they both have the divine essence of God - otherwise how could Jesus sit at the right hand of the Father?).

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

I am not interested in any version of of the Nicene Creed. I am interested in the version of the Holy Bible. Does the Holy Bible mention three God beings? And how does the Holy Bible describe this "essence" you speak of? What is it?

we kno that the Father is God . . . He is called such everywhere.

The son is called God most clearly in John 1:1-14, 8:58, and 20:28 as well as several places in the epistles

The spirit is refered to as God in that He is allos to the son, He is equated with theos in Acts 5 and attributed the quality of eternality in Heb 9:14 and demonstrates distinct personal qualities throughout the NT (speaks, feels, commands, wills)

Nicea aside, these are the reason why Nicea came about.

 

[Doveaman]

we kno that the Father is God . . . He is called such everywhere.

Fine.

The son is called God most clearly in John 1:1-14, 8:58, and 20:28 as well as several places in the epistles

Fine.

The spirit is refered to as God in that He is allos to the son, He is equated with theos in Acts 5 and attributed the quality of eternality in Heb 9:14 and demonstrates distinct personal qualities throughout the NT (speaks, feels, commands, wills)

Why must the Holy Spirit be a third singular parson apart from the Father and the Son? Why can't He be the one plural person of God; Father and Son existing as one Holy Spirit?

Then God [plural] said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness" - Gen 1:26.

 

[Aibrean]

God is not plural.

One God (divine essence, substance, or being however you want to look at it), three persons (natures of God), separate but equal.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Fine.
Fine.
Why must the Holy Spirit be a third singular parson apart from the Father and the Son? Why can't He be the one plural person of God; Father and Son existing as one Holy Spirit?

Then God [plural] said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness" - Gen 1:26.

Because Jesus refers to the Spirit as ALLOS . . . numerically distinct from Himself . . . yet qualitatively the same. It is another of the same kind.

Further, in Acts, you have the Spirit speaking ALL over . . . and Luke specifies Him AS THE SPIRIT . . . and does not use the same parameters as He does when Jesus speaks . . .

as well, the Spirit has a will, of His own

These are all attributes that point to personhood and words used to describe Him which necessiate that He be numerically distinct from the Son or the Father.